[karim79]

I actually got accused of being racist for saying that anti-zionism and anti-semitism are not the same thing.

[yoavm]

I know Zionism as the idea that Jewish people have the right to self-determination.

Do you: 1 - Think that it is something different? 2 - Think that it is, but Jewish people specifically do not have it? (I believe this is racist) 3 - Think that no people have it? 4 - Something else?

If you think that Jewish people have it but just not in Palestine, where in the world do you think they should have had it?

[Parae]

You're wrong on the definition of zionism. Zionism is a European nationalist movement that uses the assumption there is a consensual concept of "homogeneous jewish people" who have the right to self-determination to justify Palestine's colonization.

Anti-zionism is being against the colonization of Palestine and being against nationalism and supremacism.

Anti-semitism is hating someone because of the are jew.

[helpfulmandrill]

If self-determination means an enthnostate then no people has that right. If every ethnic group had its own state in which it was guaranteed supremacy, the world would be a complete mess. It doesn't work. We are seeing in Israel/Palestine a thoroughly worked out example of why it doesn't work, and what the consequences are when you try to make it work.

[tovej]

The Jewish people already loving in Palestine had a right to live there.

The problem is when you try to forcefully displace an entire civilian population to make way for a colonial movement.

In the same way I, as a Finn, would not have the right to take over any region in the Urals and kick out the people who live there, the Zionists had no right to do just that in Palestine since over a hundred years ago.

[archievillain]

Zionism is the support of the Israeli colonial project. Jewish people have a right to self-determination regardless of Israel's existence; Israel's existence does not determine the right of self-determination for all jews. As such, the two things are not the same.

Zionism, then, is just support for a specific state (Israel), and support or lack or support for a state given its actions (colonial oppression) is not bigotry. Disliking a genocidal ethnostate does not influence in any way how you feel about the Jewish people as an ethnic and religious group. As such, anti-zionism and anti-semitism are not the same.

[philosopher1234]

Jews don’t have a right to an ethnostate. No one does. Jews have a right to live within any country in the world, but not run an apartheid government or commit genocide.

[naasking]

> I know Zionism as the idea that Jewish people have the right to self-determination.

I think the notion that any group has rights is problematic at best. Individuals have rights, not groups. Individuals can act collectively as a group, but the idea that that somehow imbues the group with some sort of right seems strange or confused to say the least.

[xg15]

Counter question, by that logic, what about the right to self-determination of the Palestinian people? Or the people of Lebanon or Syria for that matter?