[cortesoft]

> Good lord. The nearest Radio Shack (17 miles away) closed, so to get a resistor or cap, it's "order online". That's about as environmentally sound as nuclear testing above ground (perhaps a slight hyperbole there).

I wonder if this is true?

Let’s say you were to buy the item from a store. Suppose the store is five miles away. You drive to the store, buy the item, and drive home. You used 10 miles worth of gas, plus the wear and tear on the car (meaning it has to be replaced 10 miles earlier than it would have otherwise).

Now, suppose you order it from Amazon. A worker picks it off a shelf in the warehouse, puts it in an envelope, and puts it on a truck. The truck drives to your house to deliver it.

Even if they JUST delivered your package, it should be basically a wash in terms of energy, right? You had to drive from your house to the store, they had to drive from the distribution center to your house. There would be a bit extra packaging, but I am not sure how many gallons of burned fuel an envelope is equivalent to.

However, if you had say, an Amazon delivery, then that delivery truck is not just driving to your house. It is driving to dozens of houses along a route to deliver your goods.

If you imagine the alternative, where each of those deliveries instead has to have the owner drive to a store, that could be hundreds of miles of saved trips because of the delivery drivers only taking one trip.

[Animats]

> Now, suppose you order it from Amazon.

You do not order electronic parts from Amazon. You order them from Digi-Key or Mouser. They're organized to ship efficiently from a huge inventory of small parts, and they buy directly from manufacturers, so the supply chain is solid. If you order a Panasonic resistor, you will get a Panasonic resistor, not some random floor sweepings. (This does not apply to DigiKey's "marketplace", which is third party resellers. DigiKey does claim to monitor their resellers, and DigiKey, not the reseller, handles customer complaints.)

[thenthenthen]

Their packaging is kinda crazy though, sometimes when you order one hundred of something they all come packaged individually haha

[cortesoft]

I was just using Amazon as an example, mainly because they deliver their own items from local warehouses, usually. Easier to think about comparing that to driving to the store yourself.

[mingus88]

I always buy local if I have a choice anymore.

* I’m not making a trip downtown for just one item. I’m picking it up on my way somewhere else, usually one of a few errands. That delivery driver might be making rounds too but randomly and likely far less efficient, bouncing around various suburbs. (And the recipients of those packages are still out running errands too)

* most delivery vehicles, aside from the nice rivian EDVs, are gross polluters, noisy, driven like their lives depended on getting there as fast as possible. The drivers are abused workers, stories of pissing in bottles to make a quota. I prefer fewer of those in my neighborhood.

The bottom line though, regardless of delivery efficiency, is that communities have suffered when everyone shops online. The benefactors of that efficiency are the billionares.

I buy from stores that employ my neighbors. Where I can talk to a human when I need to return an item. Where they are treated less like warehouse robots being abused like sweatshop workers. Costco is my model for a good local warehouse, not Amazon or Newegg.

[cortesoft]

You have a lot of valid criticisms to his online retailers treat employees and communities.

However, I think there are some flaws in your argument.

> That delivery driver might be making rounds too but randomly and likely far less efficient, bouncing around various suburbs.

They are absolutely not making rounds randomly. Delivery routes are meticulously crafted for maximum efficiency. The drivers are going the absolute most efficient route for what they are delivering, and the companies spend millions of dollars to make sure, because that has a huge effect on their bottom line.

> most delivery vehicles, aside from the nice rivian EDVs, are gross polluters

All the Amazon and fedex trucks near where I live are electric. Again, these companies have strong incentives to maximize their effeciency.

> The benefactors of that efficiency are the billionares.

While it is true the billionaire owners capture an outsized share of the gains, I think it is disingenuous to say that consumers don’t get any benefit. I grew up before online retail, and I would never want to go back to having to buy everything at a store. It is INSANELY convenient to be able to order things in 30 seconds on Amazon, for as cheap as I can buy it anywhere, and have it delivered to my house in a few hours or the next day. Now, there are certainly costs to this convenience as you laid out, but it is absolutely a benefit that I have enjoyed.

> Costco is my model for a good local warehouse, not Amazon or Newegg.

I absolutely HATE our local Costco with a passion. It is always so crowded, and the parking lot is a zoo with people driving around trying to find spots and creating gridlock, plus having to walk around the crowds to find stuff and carry it to my car, etc. My experience is way better just pulling out my phone and placing an order. I even have my normal household items set to be delivered on a schedule, meaning I don’t even have to think about buying toilet paper, it just shows up at my house at the rate I need it. It is impossible to get easier than that, why would I want to give that up?

[jeffbee]

To a close approximation the prices of things are proportional to the "soundness" of the scheme. If Digi-Key can afford to put $20 worth of stuff in a box and send it to me overnight, that's their business, not mine. Someone is putting the fuel into FedEx planes full of Digi-Key boxes and somehow that cost is being amortized over all the boxes in a way that is acceptable to all parties.

[cortesoft]

Sure, but my point is that EVERYTHING you buy has to end up at your house somehow. If you buy it from a store, it has to be shipped to the store, and then picked up by you. If you you buy it online, it is shipped to a distribution center, and then delivered to you. No matter what, we have to get the item to the person who is buying it.

I am just wondering what the actual carbon footprints of the different methods are.