[Tade0]

> The narrative "people want EU (aka freedom and democracy), but bad dictators won't let them" is a populist one.

Former eastern block members that are currently in the EU beg to differ.

It's no accident that there's such a developmental gap between those of the former communist states which turned to the west vs those who remained in Russia's sphere of influence.

You can't meaningfully prosper with Russia.

[Tade0]

> Maybe the reason is not that EU magically turns everything it touches into gold (while Russian orcs turn it to crap, obviously), but that EU is carefully choosing who joins and doesn't let the bad prospects in?

The EU gives certain conditions and it's up to the elites in a given country to meet them, as that necessarily means reining in corruption - to an extent. Fortunately for me, the ones in my mine decided that this is the best course of action and we all benefited.

Also when you look at the examples of Greece or Orban's Hungary, occasionally a member will go off the rails. But again, it's the elites that let this happen.

Meanwhile corruption is an inherent feature of the Russian system, which is why doing business with them is broadly speaking a bad idea. Also it's a rather small economy producing largely low value products despite vast natural resources - there's no benefit in associating with them in this day and age. The cheap gas is not worth it.

[PowerElectronix]

Everyone that wanted in, got in. And got better living standards than those that didn't want in.

Just having access to the european free market would do that, without considering the money that pours in from the eu to developing countries.

When Ukraine wins the war and joins, you'll see how much better they get, too.

[tpm]

> were already connected historically with logistics and culture > Georgia, on the other hand, is surrounded by non-EU countries > Georgia is super patriarchal and conservative

Greece at the time they entered had no land connection to the rest of EU, completely different language and alphabet etc., and also was "super patriarchal and conservative" FWIW.

But of course you have no interest in factual discourse, you are only here to spew mass-murderer propaganda.

[CjHuber]

It's terrible that people think like that, especially in Georgia where they are still not tied to the debt fueled pyramid scheme that is the EU.

They still think of Europe as how it was 20 years+ ago, they always only look at the surface and never if the whole concept really works out long term.

[victorbjorklund]

Russia is a tiny tiny economy built on corruption. Their whole economy is about selling energy. and right now their economy is failing. They're exporting less and less and less. They even have to import fuel because they can't produce enough for their own economy.

[lukan]

"They still think of Europe as how it was 20 years+ ago, they always only look at the surface and never if the whole concept really works out long term."

Poland today seems in a way better spot than in was 20 years ago, so it seems it worked out for them. Likewise all the other eastern EU members where I travelled around. As soon as I left EU territory, things looked way worse.

[misja111]

And the alternative is ... Russia? A corrupt dictatorship whose economy is kept alive with government war spending?