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the_sleaze_ | 4 days ago

Why have bus stops at all, waymo should build a transit bus or large van and run them autonomously. Then they could optimize the fleet as they please. Bus stops were a solution to a lack of connectivity and demand.

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enragedcacti|4 days ago

Demand-responsive transport (DRT) has been tried a bunch of times in all sorts of different environments and pretty much never lives up to the promise. Predictability is really important and ridership drops as soon as users start having to plan too far ahead, which in the past has been essential to DRT routing.

Autonomy could improve responsiveness to demand but you still run into other issues. DRT usually won't be able to take advantage of things proven to make buses faster and more consistent (bus lanes, reducing stop count, transit priority signals). Futher, consistency and response times gained by dynamic routing can easily be overshadowed by increased variability in trip time as the route adjusts to add new passengers or make out of the way drop-offs.

dghlsakjg|4 days ago

I've seen it work pretty well in a number of places in the form of privately owned minibuses/vans that can rapidly go where the demand is needed.

As an example, all throughout the Eastern Caribbean this system works really well (in my experience better than most centrally planned bus systems in large cities). On any given island you can go to any main road and within a few minutes a minibus will come along. Most of the time if your aren't familiar with the geography, you just tell the conductor where you are trying to get to, and they will make sure that you get off in the right spot to get where you are going or connect to another minibus. Typical cost was ~$2.

Predictability was pretty low, but because of the small size of busses, there were a lot of them roaming around, I don't think I ever waited more than 15 minutes, and that was in very out of the way places.

the_sleaze_|4 days ago

> has been tried a bunch of times in all sorts of different environments

Has it? When, where and with what technology?

> Predictability is really important and ridership drops as soon as users start having to plan too far ahead

Uber etc have proven this to be patently false. Existing buses are experiencing dropping ridership - Uber is not.

> won't be able to take advantage of things proven to make buses faster and more consistent

You're replacing buses with auto-shuttles. Just let the shuttles use the bus lanes.

> bus lanes, reducing stop count, transit priority signals

All of these are usable if you widen the scope to include auto-shuttles.

> consistency and response times gained by dynamic routing can easily be overshadowed by increased variability

What is the difference between Busing and Shuttles here? A bus user can keep yanking the stop cord, there can be 1 or 2 disabled passengers who take several minutes to board, there can be 50 children getting on / off. These issues are constants and all are improved with demand based shuttles.

culi|4 days ago

Those busses still need designated spots to stop at. They can't be stopping in the middle of a street

amluto|4 days ago

Indeed. And if you want a lot of people to board the bus efficiently at the same time, you need them to agree to congregate somewhere before the bus arrives. One might call such a meeting point a “bus stop” :)

axus|4 days ago

I think a bus could stop in the middle of the street, but a bus stop still removes dependence on a smartphone and protects from the weather.

krab|4 days ago

Taxis/Ubers/... can and do stop in the middle of a street. Why would that be different for a bus picking up a single person?

calvinmorrison|4 days ago

funnily enough, they get designated spots and they still just stop in the middle of the street

idontwantthis|4 days ago

If you keep asking self driving bros questions you can get them to eventually reinvent buses and trains. It’s fun!

janalsncm|4 days ago

Autonomy isn’t necessary, but aside from cost there’s nothing stopping a city from operating a bus more like a shared Uber ride. Having fixed stops at fixed times is fairly primitive. They would be smaller shuttles.

rangestransform|4 days ago

Autonomy is necessary to get the unionized bus drivers out of the way, the cost of running a bus is dominated by staffing costs.

otikik|4 days ago

Waymo is worth nothing if there’s congestion. That’s the problem public transportation solves, not lack of connectivity

cozzyd|4 days ago

Wait until you're waiting in the wind and snow with a toddler, and you'll prefer a bus shelter.