[stock_toaster]

Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs just so automakers can skirt emissions and fuel economy requirements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg

[el_nahual]

For people that don't watch the video (I don't even know if this is in the video): road wear is a function of axle weight to the fourth power. [0]

That means a 6,000lb escalade creates 3x the road wear than a 4,500 wagoneer from 1990.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

[varenc]

The other key takeaway from the video is that carmakers are highly incentivized to sell SUVs because they're still classified as "non-passenger work vehicles", which have looser emission requirements making them cheaper to produce.

The bug in the law really seems to be that cars that really aren't intended as work vehicles are being treated like them.

[GorbachevyChase]

This model is the basis of the 1993 AASHTO guide on a flexible pavement design, which is not the state of the art, but is still commonly used. This is why pavement design is mostly controlled by commercial traffic. For estimation purposes, I would not even consider the load of passenger vehicles in a flexible, pavement design.

[kev009]

You are incorrectly assuming the Esclade isn't on 32+" tires with 285+mm width and the Wagoneer isn't on pizza cutters. Tire size has increased greatly on SUV and light trucks, which exerts less ground pressure.

It's not realistic to do this on a heavy truck, which run 110+ PSI on heavy wall tires and why they cause the power law damage to roads.

[davidw]

Keep this in mind next time some crank on Nextdoor dot com goes off about taxing bicycles. "Sure, as long as we're both paying according to the road wear and tear we cause".

[slaw]

one garbage truck - 40,000 pounds wears road 2000x than escalade.

[deepsun]

I've heard that cars have negligible impact on roads. 99% damage comes from heavy haul trucks, especially those who violate weight restrictions.

By the way, I've never seen SCALES OPEN sign for the trucks, it's always SCALES CLOSED, or maybe I'm just extremely unlucky.

[GorbachevyChase]

I designed highways. This is correct, and this is why weight restrictions exist. Noncompliance is not that much of an issue, and there are occasional permitted loads anyway when there’s a need to haul industrial equipment or unusually large objects.

The most important thing to remember about flexible, pavement lifespan is that asphaltic pavements are not designed to last forever. The asphalt binder will eventually oxidize and become brittle even with no traffic. These surfaces are meant to be consumable bearing services that last for 10 or 20 years and then have to be removed and or overlaid.

[paxys]

Well there aren’t semis driving down your neighborhood cul de sac (at least I hope not). Heavy trucks cause more damage to interstates and warehouse districts, yes, but that is what those roads are designed for. Most city roads meanwhile were never built to accommodate 9000 lb hummer tanks.

[stevenwoo]

I’ve done a lot of trips on I5 from Central Valley to San Diego and those stations were open most of the time and I usually did it near holidays in November/December/January. Enforcement probably depends highly on location and amount of traffic.

[dralley]

The damage scales with weight. Cars cause less damage because they are lighter. Heavier cars still cause greater impact.

[thfuran]

I don’t think SUV vs car makes a meaningful difference when e.g. delivery vans and garbage trucks exist.

[DANmode]

Roads don’t get worn all at once.

[cyberrock]

Even if it were caused by passenger cars, the skyrocketing brightness of lights at sedan height probably push more people to buy large cars than this. In a just world, cars with ridiculously bright lights would be crushed in a monster car rally. Alas the cops don't even pull them over.

[roger110]

This is the sole reason I've always hated Teslas. Didn't care that they're EV and new and have stereotypes about the drivers, just that the lights are way brighter. Or sometimes pointed further up out of the factory for some reason.

[paradox460]

The cops are some of the worst offenders. Drive past an accident and the blue lights are so bright you'll have after images for hours

[doug_durham]

No one is "forcing" anyone to buy a "super heavy SUV. Make a better argument.

[duped]

Last time I bought a car, I was replacing my 2010 CRV. If I wanted to purchase a subcompact SUV or hatchback sedan that was smaller and more fuel efficient I would have needed to wait at least six months.

Economic realities do force decision making.

[tokioyoyo]

The one thing I noticed in NA is that it takes ages to rebuild a road. I have close to zero experience in road construction, but a bit weird to see how they can repave a km stretch of a road here in Tokyo within a week or two, but it took months in other cities i've lived in.

Maybe they do a lot of extra work over night over here in Tokyo, and it just goes faster? Or it's a very systematic thing and part of the maintenance schedules, so it doesn't really go that bad?

[monero-xmr]

Hmmm probably the only thing I’ve consistently noticed around the US is they can pave highways and roads very quickly. That’s the American skill: tons of sprawl and highways. You may have been confusing road repaving with gas or water pipe replacement

[ponector]

Are you really forced to buy super heavy suv? Why can't you buy a Corolla? Or even a Mini Cooper?

[slicktux]

I think another factor of road wear is better handling cars. People are able to drive more aggressively and accelerate more efficiently then ever before. Taking tight turns at high speeds or accelerating from dead stop does wear out roads more due to higher traction from driving behavior and characteristics…

[kev009]

Typical meme. Passenger vehicles of any type cause negligible road wear. The weight of a sedan (say, 4000lbs) versus a light truck (say, 6000lbs) is just not significant, further the ground pressure will be close due to tire sizing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_pressure)

Road wear is a power law, and heavy trucks cause the wear https://blog.ucs.org/dave-cooke/trucks-cause-the-lions-share...

[bubblewand]

Correct, one of those “fun facts” of public policy is that (at least in the US) taxes and other fees, including on fuel, paid by heavy commercial trucks don’t come anywhere near paying for the damage they do to roads. The rest of us subsidize shipping-by-road with our taxes.

(Whether this is a good idea or not is debatable, but it’s the way things work right now and the fact that we subsidize truck shipping to the tune of a large amount of money is not widely known)

[bigbadfeline]

> Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs

Maybe not.

Due to battery weight, EVs are super heavy even if they aren't SUVs, so are delivery trucks without which an urban community cannot and will not exist. Urban roads should be able to handle the weight even if everyone converted to EVs.

[nine_k]

This has little to do with EVs, and much more to do with the idea that whoever brings a heavier vehicle to collision, wins (and lives). Hence the propensity to drive truck-sized SUVs and actual F-150s with just the driver, and the light load, but the pleasant feeling of safety. Who's gonna survive in an incident of road rage gone bad, a Ford Explorer or a Fiat 500?

Coming back to the EVs, a small EV is a possibility, because it takes less power to move a lighter and smaller car. But would it sell on the US market?

[deepsun]

Even EV weight is tiny compared to haul trucks. Yes they have multiple axles (hence "18-wheelers"), but even then pressure on the road surface is much greater still.

[trollbridge]

People in cities generally want deliveries of goods, which requires heavy trucks.

[rudhdb773b]

Heavy trucks aren't required for the vast majority of residential deliveries.

If you order anything in Bangkok, even say a refrigerator or a king size mattress, it will almost always be delivered by a modestly sized pickup truck (with a high roof covering the bed).

[tjwebbnorfolk]

A lot of EVs are heavier than SUVs... but don't let facts get in the way of your crusade.

[unethical_ban]

Instead of assuming bad faith and resorting to insults, simply make the point. EVs can cause road damage too, yes.

I would reply that pound for pound EVs create far fewer issues in other categories than its weight-equivalent ICE vehicle, and that to an extent that weight is justified for the urban environment far more than a 2025 Chevy Duramax.

[rootusrootus]

EVs tend to be about 10% heavier, like for like.

[Rebelgecko]

Most EVs are SUVs

[roger110]

How are we being forced to buy SUVs? There are plenty of regular cars for sale.

[csto12]

The average American wants a big SUV/Truck

[SimianSci]

This is not supported by good data, Car manufacturers are pushing to make bigger larger vehicles because they require very little additional manufacturing overhead over smaller vehicles and the manufacturers are able to sell them at higher prices.

What people want are Inexpensive vehicles, not necessarily larger ones. American car manufacturers have been actively suppressing cheaper smaller vehicles for their own benefit.

[IAmBroom]

"Forced"???

[atleastoptimal]

People buy SUV's because they want to avoid being injured in crashes (at the detriment of the other driver)

[vrosas]

This is definitely true. I do not currently know a single woman who DOESN'T drive an SUV and the answer I've heard more than once is just that they feel safer. The problem is, they're not wrong. But it's a spiraling problem - more big cars make the roads less safe which prompts more people to buy big cars...

[dmix]

In Canada people also buy SUVs and trucks because they handle the bad winter weathers better.

[Freedom2]

Yet per capita, US vehicle occupants are more likely to be injured in general while on the road than Europeans. Perhaps the driving standards are just far too different.