WingNews

shalmanese|3 days ago

The Australian ETA process, on the other hand, actually can only be done via an Android or iOS mobile app: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-li...

I was so stunned I was like, surely this must violate some government rule around universal access and service? But I guess not.

What's more, the app is so buggy reddit is filled with support cases of people not being able to complete the process in time and sometimes having to forfeit hundreds of dollars worth of tickets: https://www.reddit.com/r/AusVisa/comments/1jh2olm/having_an_...

The advice literally boils down to, some models of iPhones don't work so go borrow a friend's phone of a different model and pray that they can process your application for you.

darrenf|3 days ago

That link clearly says you don't have to use an app.

If you are unable to use the app, you can apply online through ImmiAccount for another visa that suits your needs.

This triggered me because I've been to Australia tens of times (albeit not since 2023) and have always used my Immi account. I just logged in to check and sure enough I can still lodge an application there, no app required. Ironically I would prefer an app and will use it for my next visits because I've always found the Immi site cumbersome. But the site is still there.

decimalenough|3 days ago

The other "helpful" suggestion is that, if you can't use the app, you can apply for a regular full-blown tourist visa (Subclass 600), which costs $145 and takes weeks if not months to process.

crest|3 days ago

Let me guess you have to be an Australian citizen (inmate?) to have the right to sue and then you won't have standing?

ozlikethewizard|4 days ago

The issue is the obvious anti patterns in the following flow. While its not particularly egregious, someone has taken intentional steps to make it convuluted. Engaging with gov services should not feel like trying to unsubscribe from amazon prime:

Go to https://www.gov.uk/eta/apply

Click "Start Now" under apply online section (that is distinct from the app section)

Get taken to page saying to get the app, scroll to bottom and click small link "I cannot apply on the app"

Get taken to a help getting the app page, scroll to the bottom and click small link "Continue application online"

Finally be in right place

martinald|3 days ago

But there's really good reason for this. On the app it can use NFC to read your passport data exactly. Until WebNFC supports reading passports, it is a much more efficient way.

It's not like they are getting some long term benefit of having the app on your phone. It's just because WebNFC can't read passports.

chrishannah|3 days ago

Is it really convoluted? It's 2 clicks? If the mobile app solution is the better and simpler choice for most people, wouldn't it make sense for them to recommend it?

rhazn|4 days ago

(article author here): Fair comment, but at least for me the https://www.gov.uk/eta flow still just leads into the double upsell of the mobile app. My problem is more with governments (all of them, this is just one instance) increasingly pushing people to use native Apps and with that to the mercy of Google/Apple.

The article is definitely a bit over the top, it is just my personal blog and me trying to write a bit more funny to counter the bland LLMs. Your opinion can vary on if I have succeeded or overshot on that.

quesera|3 days ago

> My problem is more with governments ... pushing people to ... Google/Apple.

It's worse than that. Many municipalities and schools etc only post public notices to Facebook/Twitter or some similarly hostile environment.

> The article is definitely a bit over the top, it is just my personal blog and me trying to write a bit more funny to counter the bland LLMs.

But. Your headline contradicts your story. The only excuse for that (and it is weak) is when writers don't get to write their own headlines (this is common) and the editors who do write the headlines are corrupted for clicks or drama (but I repeat myself).

This way lies madness, the road to hell, etc.

This is not the way of the honest writer.

bartread|3 days ago

What you're saying is sort of fair. It's 4 clicks from https://www.gov.uk/eta to get to the beginning of the online application process:

1. The first hyperlink in the Overview section takes you to this page: https://www.gov.uk/eta/apply

2. Now click the big green button marked "Start now" in the "Apply online" section

3. Then click the link at the bottom of the page marked "I cannot apply on the UK ETA app"

4. Then click again "Continue application online"

And now you can start.

Realistically this is probably 2 clicks too many and, whilst on the face of it it's not that much effort, it might be enough to bamboozle the tech phobic/less capable - of which there are still many (and not just older generations, either), or your grasp of English isn't great. There's just a bit too much going on - too much content - with some of these pages, and I don't really see a good reason to bury the links all the way at the bottom the way they are at present.

riffraff|3 days ago

FWIW, the online application only allows you to apply for a single person at a time, so for a family of four you need to repeat the whole process (including payment) four times. And the automatic identification of passport and picture does not work very well. And some payments randomly fail.

It is not a very good system. They do seem to respond fast tho!

everdrive|3 days ago

It's not difficult, however it does violate privacy. It is one more brick in the wall for requiring that all citizens own smartphones. And smartphones themselves are quite bad for privacy. When I frequent a business and they tell me use their smartphone app, my response varies from "no," to "I'm not downloading your fucking app." (depending on how polite the business has been)

100% of smart phone apps are bad. There are NO exceptions to this, by virtue of the fact that you must own and use the smartphone to access them. We stand to lose a lot when we finally lose this fight. (and I'm sure we will)

malfist|3 days ago

100%?

I once published an app to help people track their budget. It didn't even request any permissions, not even internet. How is it bad?

I wrote an app for a university to let researchers track bat sightings in caves and upload it to a database for population tracking. How is it bad?

verzali|3 days ago

Citizens don't need an ETA. Only non-citizens are affected.

nixass|4 days ago

That's... What the article is about

rcxdude|4 days ago

But the article seems to take a very roundabout way for it, and still doesn't link the direct version. I just did the same thing, googling 'UK ETA', clicked the top result, then clicked the most salient link on the result page ('Apply'), then clicked the most salient button on the next page which is a big green 'apply now button', though it is after the links to the app (but those links are not big and green). Admittedly I do have a decent amount of experience with the UK government's website which tends to have this pattern of a few pages of explanations about the thing before you get to the form you need to fill in, but it surprises me that it was that hard to find.

(Edit: ah, no, I see: the next steps are quite dark-pattern pushing you towards the app. Yeah, that's quite shitty)

taffronaut|4 days ago

No, I think he searched for the ETA App and was disappointed at the lack of emphasis on an alternative to the app once you are in it. If you just search the web for ETA and gov.uk it takes you straight to the online portal (which also asks for feedback as it's a service in Beta). The gov.uk website is neutral between you using the app or the online portal.

The only point I can see here is that once you are in the app it keeps encouraging you to use it and doesn't keep suggesting you might like to use the online portal instead. But I don't understand the initial premise about not using app stores. If the author didn't want to use an app store, why did he download an app instead of going to gov.uk?

danlitt|4 days ago

>>> How Many Hoops Are Too Many Hoops?

>> It's really not that many hoops

> That's... What the article is about

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

HelloUsername|3 days ago

Or, direct: https://apply-for-an-eta.homeoffice.gov.uk/apply/electronic-...

CGamesPlay|4 days ago

No, that link goes to the second “download our app” screen shown in the OP.

graemep|4 days ago

That has a link to actually applying online.

They are definitely using a dark pattern to push people towards the app, but it is possible to apply online.

Symbiote|4 days ago

You have to click twice more (on two more web pages) that you can't/won't use the app to start the online application.

The "Start now" button ought to skip all that.

davidguetta|3 days ago

there's a lot of promoted scam tho on google. This one : https://getetauk.co.uk/fr/ got me when i was a rush at the airport and i paid 125€ for the fucking eta without confirmation

mstade|4 days ago

Yeah it's really overblown. I applied for an ETA online last year and it took probably about 15 min from searching for where to do it to the confirmation email dropping in. It was pretty painless, much more so than the ESTA process for travelling to the US&A and even that one isn't particularly difficult.

ozlikethewizard|4 days ago

Its not so much the process that is the complaint here, as that the UK government is intentionally using Big Tech style anti-patterns to push engagement in a particular manner. It's a dangerous precedent (and not even close to the first time they've done similar).

blitzar|3 days ago

> ESTA process for travelling to the US&A and even that one isn't particularly difficult

Dodging the google ads & promoted search results that take you to clones of the application form that charge 2-3x is the hardest part.

sylware|4 days ago

And of course, this is not a web app but a web site with basic HTML forms not requiring a whatng cartel web engine?

Fervicus|3 days ago

Did you even read the article and tried going through the process? Suggesting the user to download the app is front and center and the link to apply online is tucked away in a link at the bottom. Not great, but fine, I'll live with that. But that's not the end is it? The user clicks continue online application, then why does it still give you another screen nudging you towards using the app? Making users feel like they are doing something wrong by not using the app.

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