[tombert]

This is cool, I got Codex to vibe code a Forth compiler for the NES and it worked fine, but I have to say that it is decidedly not fun.

Instead of figuring out how to solve every bug and becoming intimately familiar with with the code, I just delegate all the work to virtual interns and I sit and wait.

I decided to write my own Forth compiler without AI assistance as a result. Side projects should be fun and for learning.

Not judging people who use these tools, I use them too, but i just have been using them less for anything I am doing for fun.

[xandrius]

There is fun in what you use something for and doing the something.

I think there is a big divide between people who just love making different tools from scratch by hand and the rest who love being able to instantly whip up a new tool in minutes AND THEN use it to create something fun.

I literally would never ever in my existence be interested in making a compiler if I had nothing to use it for. If I ever wanted to make a cool program which uses that compiler then whether the compiler came into being thanks to a wizard, my enjoyment wouldn't change a single bit.

[tombert]

Yeah no argument here.

In typical tombert fashion, when making an NES game I ended up getting much more obsessed with the tooling around the project than the core project, so when I got it to generate a Forth compiler, I fell down a rabbit hole of learning how compilers work and then feeling cheated out of the actual work.

That said, I'm not a complete luddite here; I wanted a proper comment system on my blog recently, and I don't care enough about web stuff to actually build it myself. I could have used an off the shelf thing but those usually come with a bunch of bullshit involving accounts and the like, so instead I got Codex to build one for me and deploy it and it works fine.

[nz]

I know what will blow your socks off: package managers. They are kind of like magical wizards that can make fully operational software appear on your machine. Want a scheme compiler? Just `nix-shell -p racket`. Want common lisp? `nix-shell -p sbcl`. It works like a charm every time.

[lolsowrong]

I agree there’s a big divide. I think I’m also team “let people do things they enjoy.”

I like using computers to solve problems. I’m more interested in the problem being solved than the journey most of the time, though I’ve also been on some lovely journeys. Sometimes that means I write a tool all by myself. Sometimes it means I download an existing open source tool. And sometimes it means I delegate the creation to an AI model.

[yoyohello13]

I think the difference is in why you want a forth compiler on the nes. Is it because you want to dig in and learn how a compiler on the nes would work? Or do you want a compiler so you can use it for something else you’re interested in doing? If your goal is the first one, then vibe coding is not going to be a good fit.

[tombert]

In my case it’s because forth is one of the only high-level languages that has a chance of running at a playable speed on the NES, and I just like the language in general.

If you look at old school development manuals for stuff like the C64 your options, to get decent performance for something you are writing it seems like the options were “forth” or “assembly”, and I find forth easier to reason about.

To answer the true essence of your question though, I wanted a forth compiler as a means to making an NES game, but after I got Codex to generate the compiler I kind of realize that what I actually wanted was the entire experience of making an NES game, including building the compiler.

[jnpnj]

We need a new pair of words to distinguish these two mindsets. Digging deep, finding abstractions, solutions that would say more with less .. is one kind of fun. Other people want to see the magic happen by doing few keystrokes it seems, they call it fun, i call it death.

[visarga]

> they call it fun, i call it death.

Are you just sitting there as if dead when using AI? I find AI work exciting, always something new to discover.

[tombert]

I mean I guess it really depends on what you're interested in.

There are plenty of projects I have wanted to do that I don't because the "activation energy" is too high, and if I can get a machine to basically get past the boring crap then I can focus on the parts of the project that I think are fun.