[ta12121]

    How much money do you think a few generations' of slavery is worth?

I don't know. How many years of race based discrimination is it worth?

    Would you like to suggest one?

As many others in this thread have suggested: actual economic disadvantages, such as poverty, single parent household, etc...

[rayiner]

So my grandfather on my mom's side was a doctor and a lawyer. My mom's siblings include a couple of doctors, a military officer, a business executive, etc. My mom was herself a journalist, and of her sons I'm a lawyer and my brother is a banker. This is not a coincidence. Privilege is passed down from generation to generation, not just in money, but in social status, connections, values, culture, insight, motivation, outlook, etc.

At the time my grandfather was getting his medical degree and building his law library (in the 1930's and 1940's--he had my mom at a late age), blacks in this country were systematically oppressed. They were prevented from voting, they were prevented from going to school, they were prevented from holding anything more than menial jobs. At the time my grandfather was building a social inheritance to pass down to his children and grandchildren and great grandchildren, blacks were being attacked with firehoses by the government for daring to fight for the barest of equal rights.

My grandfather has been dead for more than 20 years, but his legacy is going to reach out to at least another generation. When my little girl asks why she should do her homework, I will tell her about her great grandfather, her grand uncles and aunts, and how she should study hard so she can be a doctor like them. So too does the legacy of institutional discrimination reach out over the generations.

A poor white person and a poor black person (assuming they can trace their history back to the slaves) are not in the same boat. One is in his plight because of the vagracies of the economy, the luck of the draw, etc. For the other, at least part of his socioeconomic situation, some identifiable component, can be traced back to the systematic discrimination and oppression suffered by his ancestors at the hands of the still-extant state and federal governments.

So no, just basing efforts on socioeconomics generally is not enough. It's not the same.

[grannyg00se]

So you paint this great picture about the history of an affluent white family with success built upon previous generations' success.

But then you talk about a poor white person and compare him to a poor black person saying they're not in the same boat. What does this poor white person have to do with your successful white family? That whole story is not relevant to this person as an individual.

We can see that on a historic scale the entire group of people that can trace back to slavery was more hard done by than others. But that means nothing to this poor white person. In fact, he may have suffered oppression by government in some other form. He may have just shown up during slavery fleeing a war-torn country, or political or religious imprisonment. Or this government may have falsely imprisoned his grandfather years ago. On a large scale it's nothing like the systemic oppression of slavery, but the point is, he doesn't feel responsible for any of the other guy's issues.

It is well known that the government in the past was in the wrong. But when it comes down to individuals, it's going to be difficult for someone to accept that a guy living next door scraping by on food stamps gets a boon from the government every month, and they don't, simply because they are white. I see your point, that the white person's problems are less attributable to the government than the black person's. But I don't think that this is the way to stamp out racism or even make people feel any better about the past. I think this is the wrong way to go about fixing things.

I think it would be better to make a big deal about government racism and punish it going forward in a very serious way. I think people will appreciate ongoing work to punish current and future offenders much more than a handout for wrongs past.

Also, helping those who are economically challenged based on their economic situation makes more sense than trying to correctly and accurately attribute their economic situation to their race and offenses from decades past. The government is going to end up helping some poor white people in this case along with helping some poor black people. I don't think that's a bad thing.

Unfortunately, in this scenario some black people aren't going to be helped. In fact, even some black people who can directly trace their history back to slaves aren't going to get help because they aren't sufficiently poor today. That's not ideal, but hopefully they would appreciate that going forward, racism is being discouraged and at least some attempts are being made to assist the less fortunate.

Obviously there is no silver bullet here, and there will never be complete agreement on how to deal with this. But I absolutely do not think that continuing to make decisions and policy based on race is the way to show that racism is not okay. It's a completely toxic way of thinking that needs to be eliminated - especially from government.

[saraid216]

> I don't know.

Oh, come on. Think a little. Let's say your entire family was enslaved and made to work on a plantation for a few generations. How much money would you want for that? Why offer the alternative if you can't come up with a number?

[ams6110]

Because there is no number. The premise is flawed. This is just such a nonproductive outlook to have. How far back do any of us have to go before we find our ancestors living in tyranny or serfdom or slavery. For many of us, not too many generations I bet. What does it have to do with our lives, today? If you go looking for a reason to be a victim, to find justifications for your problems, you'll never get past them.

Let's say I discovered that my great great grandfather was a slave. Let's say I somehow got paid $250,000 for that. What could I do with that money? If I'm careful, I could live on it for four or five years, maybe a few more, likely a lot less, then it's gone, and where am I? Right where I was to begin with.