Apple was in a position where they could make demands on publishers, so they demanded to strip off DRM and away they went. It was nice gesture, although you're still using iTunes media files but still, they exerted their power for The Greater Good (we can argue about why Apple would do that, but it was good for us all).
If anyone can exert pressure on book publishers to ditch DRM, it's Amazon, but why would they? Aside from The Greater Good they've got themselves a nice little vendor lock in, and unlike Apple who was making money hand over fist with the iPod and using the iTunes store to help get consumers to start building digital libraries, Amazon isn't making staggering amounts of money on the Kindle and they really need people to stick on the platform.
Seems like a few publishers have seen sense regarding DRM (Tor and Angry Robot are the first two who spring to mind), so maybe they'll eventually wise up and start dropping the DRM requirement.
AAC is not a proprietary format ("iTunes media files" — it is to MP4 what MP3 is to MPEG). Other media players can and do support AAC if it has no DRM.
Amazon not only uses DRM but it uses a non-standard ebook format and its hardware does not support vanilla ePub (out of the box, you can download third party viewers to the Fire devices).
To go back to a comparison to Apple: iPods do play WAV and MP3 out of the box, and so does iTunes. The only non-standard media format Apple pushed (Apple lossless) it has mad free and open. Apple's book reader supports ePub out of the box. (Apple does push its own enhancements to ePub for interactive textbooks, but it has done these in the "correct" way.)
I feel it's worth mentioning that the Amazon mp3 store was DRM free from the get-go, and long before Apple started providing DRM free music. In fact, it was probably on the example of Amazon that Apple was able to make such a demand ("look, the music industry hasn't imploded yet").
Also, while Apple does sell DRM-free files, access to their store requires iTunes - not exactly DRM, but a vendor tie-in that limits your access to the store and your purchased music. Contrast with Amazon, whereas you can buy/download tracks from your browser.
> Amazon isn't making staggering amounts of money on the Kindle
Amazon sells more ebooks than print books (hard and soft back combined). I guess there's a lot of shovel-ware 99p dross in there, but still, it'd odd to say that Amazon is not making much money on Kindle.
Yeah, as Charlie Stross pointed out on his blog some time ago, the publishers effectively demanded that Amazon have a monopoly on the eBook reading public & only now are they (slowly) realising that this might not have been a great idea. Bezos must have been laughing all the way home from those meetings...
And if you look at the Amazon music store, which was DRM free from the get-go (and probably paved the way for Apple to negotiate with its own content providers for DRM free music), it's hard to think of Amazon as being on the side of DRM.
Currently, of the two DRM-laden e-mediums Amazon sells (books and videos), both have DRM because the publishers insist on it.
Is it possible to have the DRM discussion without becoming hyperbolic? I mean, I'm not thrilled about DRM, but "Bottom feeding hell beast" is probably a little over the top.
Furthermore, it seems weird that his primary stated use case (copying a section of a book and sharing with his friends) is totally supported on the kindle. There are all sorts of social features built into the device.
Yes, we get it, DRM is a non-starter for most technical people, but we need to have a constructive dialog around the issue.
I would observe the hyperbole is usually coming from the consumer side, where it is histrionic. The consumer always has the option to simply not consume, one I use quite frequently when the DRM deal is not in my favor.
This is an author, realizing he's being enticed into the car trunk with pretty candy, and that he got taken awfully far in before he noticed. I think a bit of hyperbole is a bit more justified, so as to warn the others.
the problem isn't just the inconvenience for customers. the bigger threat for authors is that amazon isn't just a quasi-monopoly, but also a monopsony (meaning publishers have to publish through amazon; it's a monopoly for suppliers instead of customers).
as an author or publisher you can't get away from amazon anymore because you would invaliate your whole library. if you want to switch, your customers can't read your books anymore, because they're bound by the kindles DRM.
so for us the question is if we can or cannot read a book - for the author it's an entirely different question; it's about being dependent on amazon without alternatives. so of course he's got to be a lot more to lose.
ah, and why not use strong language - he's an author, he knows what he does :)
i don't completely get it though, because the kindle is able to handle unprotected mobi files, plain text and html. i had several of those (creative commons or public domain) on mine and it worked flawlessly. do the mobi devs charge a licensing fee or why are those formats not accepted as a free format? ok - plain text really isn't an alternative for most, but html or mobi?
Definitely over the top. Revoking licensing aside, the Amazon ecosystem is pretty open- apps for every almost every OS, no requirement for online access to read books, copy and paste (up to a limit), multiple licenses per customer.
It seems everything the author is concerned about would be solved it there were a centrally/open-source managed, non-profit, DRM out there. The DRM which would be analogous to SSH.
So one thing I've never understood: Is this really not technically possible or is the problem that the people who have the knowhow to create that are ideologically opposed?
One place Amazon appears to be noticing the benefit to reduced or eliminating DRM is in game sales. On Reddit in the /r/gamedeals subreddit, we often discuss if a game has DRM before concluding if it's a good purchase or not. The Amazon rep Tony often hangs around there to answer questions or posts deals himself, and he sees that DRM-free games do sell more. He now says if a game is DRM free or not when posting deals.
I understand they have also had a few experiments into working with publishers to sell games without DRM to measure the effect.
So, just an anecdote from a small part of Amazon, but that information may propagate to the books section eventually. We can only hope, because nothing puts me off purchasing media like digital rights management.
[+] [-] nicholassmith|13 years ago|reply
If anyone can exert pressure on book publishers to ditch DRM, it's Amazon, but why would they? Aside from The Greater Good they've got themselves a nice little vendor lock in, and unlike Apple who was making money hand over fist with the iPod and using the iTunes store to help get consumers to start building digital libraries, Amazon isn't making staggering amounts of money on the Kindle and they really need people to stick on the platform.
Seems like a few publishers have seen sense regarding DRM (Tor and Angry Robot are the first two who spring to mind), so maybe they'll eventually wise up and start dropping the DRM requirement.
[+] [-] Tloewald|13 years ago|reply
Amazon not only uses DRM but it uses a non-standard ebook format and its hardware does not support vanilla ePub (out of the box, you can download third party viewers to the Fire devices).
To go back to a comparison to Apple: iPods do play WAV and MP3 out of the box, and so does iTunes. The only non-standard media format Apple pushed (Apple lossless) it has mad free and open. Apple's book reader supports ePub out of the box. (Apple does push its own enhancements to ePub for interactive textbooks, but it has done these in the "correct" way.)
[+] [-] shuzchen|13 years ago|reply
Also, while Apple does sell DRM-free files, access to their store requires iTunes - not exactly DRM, but a vendor tie-in that limits your access to the store and your purchased music. Contrast with Amazon, whereas you can buy/download tracks from your browser.
[+] [-] DanBC|13 years ago|reply
Amazon sells more ebooks than print books (hard and soft back combined). I guess there's a lot of shovel-ware 99p dross in there, but still, it'd odd to say that Amazon is not making much money on Kindle.
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19148146)
[+] [-] m_eiman|13 years ago|reply
http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/52245/are-all-ebook...
[+] [-] fieryscribe|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pja|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shuzchen|13 years ago|reply
Currently, of the two DRM-laden e-mediums Amazon sells (books and videos), both have DRM because the publishers insist on it.
[+] [-] Pfhreak|13 years ago|reply
Furthermore, it seems weird that his primary stated use case (copying a section of a book and sharing with his friends) is totally supported on the kindle. There are all sorts of social features built into the device.
Yes, we get it, DRM is a non-starter for most technical people, but we need to have a constructive dialog around the issue.
[+] [-] jerf|13 years ago|reply
This is an author, realizing he's being enticed into the car trunk with pretty candy, and that he got taken awfully far in before he noticed. I think a bit of hyperbole is a bit more justified, so as to warn the others.
[+] [-] stefs|13 years ago|reply
as an author or publisher you can't get away from amazon anymore because you would invaliate your whole library. if you want to switch, your customers can't read your books anymore, because they're bound by the kindles DRM.
so for us the question is if we can or cannot read a book - for the author it's an entirely different question; it's about being dependent on amazon without alternatives. so of course he's got to be a lot more to lose.
ah, and why not use strong language - he's an author, he knows what he does :)
i don't completely get it though, because the kindle is able to handle unprotected mobi files, plain text and html. i had several of those (creative commons or public domain) on mine and it worked flawlessly. do the mobi devs charge a licensing fee or why are those formats not accepted as a free format? ok - plain text really isn't an alternative for most, but html or mobi?
[+] [-] turtlebits|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] funkwyrm|13 years ago|reply
So one thing I've never understood: Is this really not technically possible or is the problem that the people who have the knowhow to create that are ideologically opposed?
[+] [-] wmf|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SquareWheel|13 years ago|reply
I understand they have also had a few experiments into working with publishers to sell games without DRM to measure the effect.
So, just an anecdote from a small part of Amazon, but that information may propagate to the books section eventually. We can only hope, because nothing puts me off purchasing media like digital rights management.
[+] [-] damian2000|13 years ago|reply
He even has his own Author's page: http://www.amazon.com/John-Birmingham/e/B001IOBFQA/ref=sr_tc...
His latest book, "Angels of Vengeance", published in April 2012, is available for Kindle, paperback, hardcover and audiobook.