Is this the end of the current startup era? How did we get from "Make stuff people want" to the current obsession with funding, SEO and "Growth Hackers" (!). This sounds like the same sort of nonsense I was reading in January 2000. Just like the 90's tech boom, the community has become inward-looking, stale, and it's feeding on itself (c.f. this article, which isn't about how to start a company but to be hired by a "startup"). The most exiting new stuff seems to be stuff that just feeds more startups.
None of this is about the practical details of the article. If that's the job you want then this sounds like a great way to get it. But like I said, if this is the kind of thing that's interesting to "startups", then I think the end is near.
I'd agree that while I really dont have a full picture of the economics of the current startup atmosphere (does anyone?), the culture right now is a pretty strong indicator to me that things are going to stagnate or trend down. IMHO there is a pretty toxic layer of culture that has built up from all the hype that for the most part is adding negative value. I dont really give a crap if people think it fits their definition of a "bubble" or not - if the focus is not on providing tangible value to others, the market will eventually figure it out and value it appropriately. I think there is a large and growing segment of startups that view their business as existing to just bring value to themselves (although will obviously never be admitted) - business plans that stop at getting funding, comfy office suites, parties, etc. Part of this is getting driven by a segment of newly inspired newcomers that view startups as essentially just a cool atmosphere where they could get rich rather than what startups really should be to be successful ... a slog through utter absolute shit to try to do something that really matters to the people involved.
Not sure whether I've noticed this or not, but recently I've become strongly focused on startups that align value with their users. Traditional consumer startups are crap, get eyeballs, sell to advertisers "or something".
Screw that. If you aren't making something your users want to pay for, start making something else.
That said, I think SEO and "growth hacking" can be very useful AFTER you get the basic "We provide value to our users" thing solved.
Here's what I like about this story: Amar tried everything he could to "hack" his way into the position. In the end, he made a lot of noise but it wasn't until he sat down and spent hours learning to code that he got the job. To most people, getting a job after 5.5 months is not "hacking", but it's more admirable. That's the moral I got from the story, whether it was intended or not.
Michael was speaking at the KWB2B Marketers Meet Up
I hopped in my dad’s car and drove to Waterloo.
Do founders usually prefer hiring someone who stalks them? Even if they quote: "lacked any and all experience we were looking for."
Don't get me wrong, I think what Amar did shows a lot of hustle, and his case on them showed that he was willing to learn and is passionate. But still, I think ajross hit the nail on the end with saying "I think the end is near." And I think that end will be when Pinterest has their IPO.
Wow, some really big mistakes... Explains why it took 5 months to get the final interview.
>but I will put in 12 hours a day, 7 days a week until I get there.
>Vidyard being one of them, even if I work for free.
>I'm even willing to work for free for a period of time.
Never, ever, ever do this stuff
- Free
If you say you're willing to work for free, that tells me one thing: You think your work is of no value to me. And so if you think that, I will also think that your work is worthless to me. Instant turn-off.
- I will work 24/7
You're coming off as desperate if you put it like that. I've similarly been on the job hunt for my first job recently and out of all the phone screens I had, every single one led to an on-site interview (21 on-site interviews in the next 3 weeks). I attribute my success in part to a similar snipped that I would make sure to drop into every interview:
"I'm not a 100% subscriber of Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hour rule, but I do believe that in order to become good at something you have to spend a lot of time and focus on it. I want to become the best software developer I can be.
I'm not looking for just a 9 to 5, and especially interested in startups because I want to join a great team that I can intensely work with and learn from"
That was roughly part of my pitch. I also researched _every_ person who I'd be talking to. Has a lot of PostgreSQL related posts on their blog? "Oh yeah I hate MySQL". Re-tweeted a tweet about a MongoDB bug report? "I prefer traditional databases for serious apps". Has a blog post about Go? "I think the speed advantage that Go can offer is really interesting" And so on and so forth. People like people who are like them, with pretty much everyone exposing their lives and opinions, stuff like this is up for easy pickings.
Respect to the guy's persistence. I'm similarly in a position where I can't immigrate to the US (but at least I'm a EU citizen so I can move to London) so I can see why OP really wanted to join a famous startup when there's already so few available to him.
I also researched _every_ person who I'd be talking to. Has a lot of PostgreSQL related posts on their blog? "Oh yeah I hate MySQL". Re-tweeted a tweet about a MongoDB bug report? "I prefer traditional databases for serious apps". Has a blog post about Go? "I think the speed advantage that Go can offer is really interesting" And so on and so forth. People like people who are like them, with pretty much everyone exposing their lives and opinions, stuff like this is up for easy pickings.
Wow, some really big mistakes... I've similarly been on the job hunt for my first job recently
You sound a little over confident of 'the right way to look for a job' for someone who's only just getting your first job now.
>I'm even willing to work for free for a period of time.
I've done that. For a week, after that I pretty much could dictate terms. It's a lot harder to argue someone isn't worth what they're asking for as long as you haven't seen them work or worked with them. And one of my terms was that if they kept me on after the week they had to pay for the week as well.
Giving free samples works very well for drugs, it works just as well if you're good at what you do but are not so good in communicating that as you are in showing it.
There is nothing desperate about it, just limit your exposure by limiting the time you'll do that and if you're as good as you think you are you even get the risk paid off.
I definitely agree that working for free is a bad idea. But in the software industry we're currently enjoying a shortage of talent (well, that's either positive or negative depending on whether you're employee or employer) I kinda have one foot in the video/film production industry and it is so radically different to see people begging to work for free, having a food service job on the side, etc. While other graduates come out of the same 4-year education with a software degree and they're able to demand high salaries, signing bonuses, stock options, etc.
Working for free does not mean the work is worthless. This is just an insane idea. Let's say I volunteer building houses for people in the 3rd world, or I give free talks at my daughter's school, or I help some friends get their startup off the ground, none of these means they are worthless. This must be a cultural difference thing, but giving freely of your time for endeavors you believe in should not make you think my work is worthless to you. Compensation comes in many forms. Money is just one of them.
> I also researched _every_ person who I'd be talking to. Has a lot of PostgreSQL related posts on their blog? "Oh yeah I hate MySQL". Re-tweeted a tweet about a MongoDB bug report? "I prefer traditional databases for serious apps". Has a blog post about Go? "I think the speed advantage that Go can offer is really interesting" And so on and so forth. People like people who are like them, with pretty much everyone exposing their lives and opinions, stuff like this is up for easy pickings.
So, you play the pandering sycophant ? I _can't tell_ from here because you don't include any examples where you disagree with the interviewer's worldview.
If one of your examples had been e.g. "I've used Go quite a bit and it's bitten me in a number of ways, here's a couple: ...", it might look less like you're just researching exactly what you think people will want to hear.
> If you say you're willing to work for free, that tells me one thing: You think your work is of no value to me. And so if you think that, I will also think that your work is worthless to me. Instant turn-off.
That's not how I read it. Supposedly a work sample is the best predictor of making a good hire (I think maybe tokenadult posted something on that once?). The fact that he's willing to do it for free (assuming he actually does it) shows that he's very committed to the company. In my opinion, it's a positive -- not a negative.
It's an interesting story and really shows an unusual level of determination, but I'm stuck on this part:
> So, just to recap, that’s about 5 months and 9 interviews/meetings and countless hours spent working on projects/reports/presentations.
> by proving himself capable for the role, he hacked the process.
I don't see a hack so much as I see a broken process that made a single task monumentally difficult and time consuming. Employers everywhere have a problem with relying on credentials or experience rather than recognizing ability and potential, which is understandable given time and budget constraints. If someone could figure out a way to help companies quickly pick talented but inexperienced individuals out of a pool of applicants, THAT would be a hack. A pretty amazing one for employees and employers, too.
I think it would probably be better to just make "temp to hire" the norm and start lot's of people, keep those who seem to excel.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about cut-throat competition and giant classes feeding into one position.
I'm just thinking you can't tell how someone's going to do until they're in, and you should be able to get them in quicker and easier to find out. Finally, a lot of good people can learn quickly.
I suppose what I suggest is real hands-on mentorship which is not the norm in American management today...
I agree. The previous startup I used to work at had a horrible candidate selection process. Amar's case is too one-off for it to be a hack but at least it was possible.
Wow. I don't know if I should be impressed or pity the guy. Mike says, "Everyone who wants to work in a startup should do this," which I don't agree with. But I think every job-seeker should read this piece and pay attention to 2 key points:
1. Amar leveraged his own internet real estate by publishing blog posts about Vidyard's marketing and then tweeting at the founders to let them know about his work. He essentially provided some flattering, well-written, and useful consulting work to Vidyard.
2. He was honest about his desires, expectations, and willingness to work. When his initial email was written off as just another form letter, he went above and beyond to ensure his real feelings were heard.
These tactics are within the reach of every reasonably intelligent person. Good read.
While this had a happy ending, can you imagine an alternate universe where the founders for whatever reason decided not to hire the guy? Leading him on for several months, making him jump through hoops and then not hiring him would have been a huge waste of time and energy, esp considering they seem pretty disinterested through most of the process. People sometimes greatly undervalue the value of a polite 'no'.
I think you mean 'uninterested'. Pet peeve, sorry.
But I wholly agree with the substance. This article feels like a justification for an unnecessarily long process that was a poor use of everybody's time. It reflects badly on a person if they're sufficiently desperate to expend so much time on the whims of a particular company, and it reflects badly on a company that would expect and encourage it.
To be clear - if you don't get a response, reaching out again to follow up is a really good thing. Being persistent is a good thing. But I think you really need to have a stronger sense of your own value than Amar displayed. When a company is that cool on you, it's probably better to move on.
But the bigger problem, really, is just that it all seems so inefficient. With all due respect, Amar sold himself really badly in the emails shown. That puts you on the back foot from the outset, and it bodes especially badly for a marketing oriented role.
That's all you need to get a startup to pay for your time. Honest. Every time I launch something, emails start pouring in from people who are interested.
Forget everything else anyone says, just launch something.
I don't think you can make such a broad claim. I've been working at startups for a few years and I don't lack job offers, but they come mostly from my past experience and industry ties. I've "launched" (as in created) two small web apps in the last 6 months and even though one has a few hundred users I still only got a 15$ donation and some interesting conversations, but no job offers.
Not to mention I have tens of github repos and even though the link is on my CV I was never asked anything about any of them in my last job search.
I live in Tel-Aviv, a city only second to SV in startup mania, yet I still feel very alien reading a lot HN articles and comments.
Edit: Thought I should add: in the Israeli startup scene ties, not launching are your best bet at getting a good job.
Exactly. You don't need anyone's permission to make something. If you hire someone who's launched something you know you won't have to do a lot of handholding, versus someone who's going to "work for free".
Wow, can't believe all the negative talk, perhaps I read it in a different tone, but the story delivers what the headline says, unless you want to be really critical on the word hack. If you are persistent and prove yourself, you can go anywhere. It didn't sound to me like they treated him like crap, yeah sure they told him No, they brushed him off, and they did what any other person running a start up or even what any other HR person would do. If a guy continues to practically stalk you, you either ignore him or are forced to deal with him, and when you are 'awkwarded' into a situation or you see someone trying hard, what are you gonna do, tell him to fuck off or throw him a bone? Dude kept coming back and incrementally proving himself, asking for what he could do, and what do you say? "Sorry you'll never be good enough?", you don't know that, you just know he is currently right for that role, but he still might be able to prove he's a valuable person to hire. The stories of 7-year over night successes are because of persistence, dude had that and those are the people you want along with you on the ride.
Where in the article did you find that information? I think the problem is that they never did tell him 'no', stringing him along while they had absolutely no intention in hiring him.
IMO, Amar should've moved on to a company that would appreciate him. The Vidyard guys seem like major assholes.
All right, most of these comments seem to be about how he went the completely wrong direction looking to get hired and how each of us would have done it completely differently. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Would he have done better if he had just "launched something himself"? Perhaps. How about being a fantastic coder and orator too? Certainly. That's not the point. He had persistence. When it comes to running a company and trying to be successful, there are few traits more valuable than persistence -- and he has more of it than the majority of extremely smart people I know.
I know a lot of absolutely fantastic coders. Many of them are very creative too. But the lack of persistence and drive is what will prevent them from dealing with the emotional rollercoaster and disappointment that is running a company.
Somebody with persistence and intelligence can learn any skill. And most importantly, they can keep performing their skills when everybody else -- even those 50 times better at it than they -- have quit.
EDIT: And I should have included: Amar, hats off to you. You're going to go far.
Amazing how much free consulting work companies are getting through job interviews these days... It almost makes you think a lot of companies now have an incentive to pretend to be hiring just to get this input.
By the way, if anyone's interested, I posted a cpl days ago to no avail the following breakdown of job openings results in select cities by select keywords via Indeed.com's API (I'm new to python and having some fun):
http://i.imgur.com/hGlSb.png
The article makes Vidyard and particularly "Mike" look pretty bad and lacks perspective and empathy. The fact that he's OK with ignoring personal communications just because they look like a "cover letter" speaks volumes. I don't buy the "I'm busy" argument. I've emailed people like Mark Cuban and received prompt replies in the past.
Worse, he interviewed the guy and made him do free, unpaid work to further prove himself, and then ignored him for four weeks after he did the task! Absolutely pathetic. I can only think about my friend's startup cleaning company: he has prospective cleaners clean an apartment as part of their interview to see their cleaning skills, but he pays them the standard hourly rate ($20/hr+) for their time. And he follows up. And he doesn't have any funding himself yet.
Posts like this one just reinforce and validate this kind of behavior in the startup community. Just because you're a "busy startup guy" doesn't mean you get to ignore labor laws and have free reign to be a prick. Just FYI, having people work for free is almost always illegal if they're not receiving academic credit.
All people deserve to be treated with common decency. It doesn't matter how bad the economy is, how new the employer is, and how inexperienced the applicant is. As soon as we deem it acceptable and in fact encourage the abandonment of these principles and laws, we descend into a third world black market business culture. I wouldn't be surprised if the next boulder we crash into on this slippery slope involves applicants bribing their way into jobs: "In exchange for letting me work for you for free, I'm willing to "fund the overhead" of my training by providing you with a monthly stipend of $500/month during my free labor period!"
You know its funny, most of the talented engineers here in Miami are working at big corps and could care less about the startup echo-chamber and jobs at these startups. Could be that our startups here don't get enough press to seem cool?
Well, look at the article. It's written by a young guy who essentially consulted for this company for free for 5 months. I'd argue South Florida has it right: startups are absurdly glamorized right now, and in a region where everyone (everyone!) hustles to get by, the engineers know fronting when they see it.
Why do engineers go to startups? Cool technology, interesting problems, more autonomy, and the slim chance of a big payoff. Startups in South Florida apparently have none of these. I've told Mike Greenberg (and you too, I think?) as much about the tech meetup culture down there: you won't have strong technology culture without strong technology. RefreshMiami and a Rails meetup won't cut it.
Besides, why quit your corporate engineering job for a startup when you're making $80k+ in a city where money is everything?
this is depressing. cheers to the guy for his persistence and interest - but seriously - why would you still want to work for a company after being literally treated like crap like that? also - what bargaining value do you have at all w.r.t. salaries or equity if you go in seeming like the most desperate person alive? It should be the other way around - if you´re good and talented - which the author of the article obviously is - then companies should court you to be come a part of their business. Case in point - the 42floors guys - who were awesome enough to really try to woo Dan Shipper publicly - http://42floors.com/blog/consider-this-a-job-offer-to-work-a... - at the end of the day - you want to be valuable to a company - and you want them to want you - telling them that they can use you isnt that.
this article was terribad internet 2.0 stuffed shirt middle management corporate hot garbage.
i wiped my ass with everything that ceo had to say. join our moustache hipster 'hot startup', it'll take you 9 interviews but we're worth it. really? it's 2012 how about f you and your viral marketing video cloud service startup. you are parasites upon humanity making video spam and viewing metrics stats for car companies, penis pills and gambling. just admit you are shameless hucksters that are one peg above a spammer, ditch the synergies and ridiculous pretense.
if this guy enjoys the starbucks latte macfag synergies promoting corporate work environment that's great but this isn't 'hacking' this is pleading and begging to get a shitty job in yet another corporation that's just pretending to be super kawaii cool and awesome but when it comes down to it they'll lay this guy off in a heartbeat, sell the company to some megacorp and screw every employee royally. all startups do this. the guy who owns it buys back all your shares before he lays you off as a favour then keeps the money and sells out faster than Jay Leno in front of a bowl full of Doritos.
I bet they do excrement inducing "team building exercizes" at this way super coo startup. No matter what hipster clothes and mac products you put in front of the CEO he's Bill Lumberg from Office Space demanding TPS reports.
Finally the worst of this entire article was the buzzword 'growth hacker' which is newspeak for a spammer. Look at the definition article they link, some guy who basically manipulates CL ads to punt his junk, a marketer with coding experience, in other words, a fcking spammer. Protip: all of India and Pakistan are chock full of marketers who can code. This is not a revolutionary concept.
I would've shown up and given this guy a USB drive with 3 OSx exploits on it to corrupt client side memory and my "resume", then sold myself to him in person using balls not limp social media or stalking around linkedin and twitter. If they didn't hire me I'd have their source code to sell on blackhat SEO forums anyways so who cares.
I have read almost to the end and I still have no idea what a "growth hacker" does. Is this SEO (another blurry, but less blurry term) or content generation or scaling?
ajross|13 years ago
None of this is about the practical details of the article. If that's the job you want then this sounds like a great way to get it. But like I said, if this is the kind of thing that's interesting to "startups", then I think the end is near.
moocow01|13 years ago
Swizec|13 years ago
Screw that. If you aren't making something your users want to pay for, start making something else.
That said, I think SEO and "growth hacking" can be very useful AFTER you get the basic "We provide value to our users" thing solved.
paulgb|13 years ago
epicjunction|13 years ago
Don't get me wrong, I think what Amar did shows a lot of hustle, and his case on them showed that he was willing to learn and is passionate. But still, I think ajross hit the nail on the end with saying "I think the end is near." And I think that end will be when Pinterest has their IPO.
PagingCraig|13 years ago
kami8845|13 years ago
>but I will put in 12 hours a day, 7 days a week until I get there.
>Vidyard being one of them, even if I work for free.
>I'm even willing to work for free for a period of time.
Never, ever, ever do this stuff
- Free
If you say you're willing to work for free, that tells me one thing: You think your work is of no value to me. And so if you think that, I will also think that your work is worthless to me. Instant turn-off.
- I will work 24/7
You're coming off as desperate if you put it like that. I've similarly been on the job hunt for my first job recently and out of all the phone screens I had, every single one led to an on-site interview (21 on-site interviews in the next 3 weeks). I attribute my success in part to a similar snipped that I would make sure to drop into every interview:
"I'm not a 100% subscriber of Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hour rule, but I do believe that in order to become good at something you have to spend a lot of time and focus on it. I want to become the best software developer I can be.
I'm not looking for just a 9 to 5, and especially interested in startups because I want to join a great team that I can intensely work with and learn from"
That was roughly part of my pitch. I also researched _every_ person who I'd be talking to. Has a lot of PostgreSQL related posts on their blog? "Oh yeah I hate MySQL". Re-tweeted a tweet about a MongoDB bug report? "I prefer traditional databases for serious apps". Has a blog post about Go? "I think the speed advantage that Go can offer is really interesting" And so on and so forth. People like people who are like them, with pretty much everyone exposing their lives and opinions, stuff like this is up for easy pickings.
Respect to the guy's persistence. I'm similarly in a position where I can't immigrate to the US (but at least I'm a EU citizen so I can move to London) so I can see why OP really wanted to join a famous startup when there's already so few available to him.
pnathan|13 years ago
On the other hand, these threads provide me with signals to watch out for. :-)
troels|13 years ago
That doesn't sound very sincere.
jacalata|13 years ago
jacquesm|13 years ago
I've done that. For a week, after that I pretty much could dictate terms. It's a lot harder to argue someone isn't worth what they're asking for as long as you haven't seen them work or worked with them. And one of my terms was that if they kept me on after the week they had to pay for the week as well.
Giving free samples works very well for drugs, it works just as well if you're good at what you do but are not so good in communicating that as you are in showing it.
There is nothing desperate about it, just limit your exposure by limiting the time you'll do that and if you're as good as you think you are you even get the risk paid off.
jakejake|13 years ago
hnriot|13 years ago
philsnow|13 years ago
So, you play the pandering sycophant ? I _can't tell_ from here because you don't include any examples where you disagree with the interviewer's worldview.
If one of your examples had been e.g. "I've used Go quite a bit and it's bitten me in a number of ways, here's a couple: ...", it might look less like you're just researching exactly what you think people will want to hear.
Xcelerate|13 years ago
That's not how I read it. Supposedly a work sample is the best predictor of making a good hire (I think maybe tokenadult posted something on that once?). The fact that he's willing to do it for free (assuming he actually does it) shows that he's very committed to the company. In my opinion, it's a positive -- not a negative.
Irregardless|13 years ago
> So, just to recap, that’s about 5 months and 9 interviews/meetings and countless hours spent working on projects/reports/presentations.
> by proving himself capable for the role, he hacked the process.
I don't see a hack so much as I see a broken process that made a single task monumentally difficult and time consuming. Employers everywhere have a problem with relying on credentials or experience rather than recognizing ability and potential, which is understandable given time and budget constraints. If someone could figure out a way to help companies quickly pick talented but inexperienced individuals out of a pool of applicants, THAT would be a hack. A pretty amazing one for employees and employers, too.
redwood|13 years ago
Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about cut-throat competition and giant classes feeding into one position.
I'm just thinking you can't tell how someone's going to do until they're in, and you should be able to get them in quicker and easier to find out. Finally, a lot of good people can learn quickly.
I suppose what I suggest is real hands-on mentorship which is not the norm in American management today...
vsloo|13 years ago
ia|13 years ago
eliza1wright|13 years ago
1. Amar leveraged his own internet real estate by publishing blog posts about Vidyard's marketing and then tweeting at the founders to let them know about his work. He essentially provided some flattering, well-written, and useful consulting work to Vidyard.
2. He was honest about his desires, expectations, and willingness to work. When his initial email was written off as just another form letter, he went above and beyond to ensure his real feelings were heard.
These tactics are within the reach of every reasonably intelligent person. Good read.
theshadow|13 years ago
matthewowen|13 years ago
But I wholly agree with the substance. This article feels like a justification for an unnecessarily long process that was a poor use of everybody's time. It reflects badly on a person if they're sufficiently desperate to expend so much time on the whims of a particular company, and it reflects badly on a company that would expect and encourage it.
To be clear - if you don't get a response, reaching out again to follow up is a really good thing. Being persistent is a good thing. But I think you really need to have a stronger sense of your own value than Amar displayed. When a company is that cool on you, it's probably better to move on.
But the bigger problem, really, is just that it all seems so inefficient. With all due respect, Amar sold himself really badly in the emails shown. That puts you on the back foot from the outset, and it bodes especially badly for a marketing oriented role.
Swizec|13 years ago
That's all you need to get a startup to pay for your time. Honest. Every time I launch something, emails start pouring in from people who are interested.
Forget everything else anyone says, just launch something.
mikle|13 years ago
Not to mention I have tens of github repos and even though the link is on my CV I was never asked anything about any of them in my last job search.
I live in Tel-Aviv, a city only second to SV in startup mania, yet I still feel very alien reading a lot HN articles and comments.
Edit: Thought I should add: in the Israeli startup scene ties, not launching are your best bet at getting a good job.
mcantelon|13 years ago
CosmicShadow|13 years ago
Samuel_Michon|13 years ago
Where in the article did you find that information? I think the problem is that they never did tell him 'no', stringing him along while they had absolutely no intention in hiring him.
IMO, Amar should've moved on to a company that would appreciate him. The Vidyard guys seem like major assholes.
aclimatt|13 years ago
Would he have done better if he had just "launched something himself"? Perhaps. How about being a fantastic coder and orator too? Certainly. That's not the point. He had persistence. When it comes to running a company and trying to be successful, there are few traits more valuable than persistence -- and he has more of it than the majority of extremely smart people I know.
I know a lot of absolutely fantastic coders. Many of them are very creative too. But the lack of persistence and drive is what will prevent them from dealing with the emotional rollercoaster and disappointment that is running a company.
Somebody with persistence and intelligence can learn any skill. And most importantly, they can keep performing their skills when everybody else -- even those 50 times better at it than they -- have quit.
EDIT: And I should have included: Amar, hats off to you. You're going to go far.
aba_sababa|13 years ago
redwood|13 years ago
By the way, if anyone's interested, I posted a cpl days ago to no avail the following breakdown of job openings results in select cities by select keywords via Indeed.com's API (I'm new to python and having some fun): http://i.imgur.com/hGlSb.png
joonix|13 years ago
Worse, he interviewed the guy and made him do free, unpaid work to further prove himself, and then ignored him for four weeks after he did the task! Absolutely pathetic. I can only think about my friend's startup cleaning company: he has prospective cleaners clean an apartment as part of their interview to see their cleaning skills, but he pays them the standard hourly rate ($20/hr+) for their time. And he follows up. And he doesn't have any funding himself yet.
Posts like this one just reinforce and validate this kind of behavior in the startup community. Just because you're a "busy startup guy" doesn't mean you get to ignore labor laws and have free reign to be a prick. Just FYI, having people work for free is almost always illegal if they're not receiving academic credit.
All people deserve to be treated with common decency. It doesn't matter how bad the economy is, how new the employer is, and how inexperienced the applicant is. As soon as we deem it acceptable and in fact encourage the abandonment of these principles and laws, we descend into a third world black market business culture. I wouldn't be surprised if the next boulder we crash into on this slippery slope involves applicants bribing their way into jobs: "In exchange for letting me work for you for free, I'm willing to "fund the overhead" of my training by providing you with a monthly stipend of $500/month during my free labor period!"
brianbreslin|13 years ago
achompas|13 years ago
Why do engineers go to startups? Cool technology, interesting problems, more autonomy, and the slim chance of a big payoff. Startups in South Florida apparently have none of these. I've told Mike Greenberg (and you too, I think?) as much about the tech meetup culture down there: you won't have strong technology culture without strong technology. RefreshMiami and a Rails meetup won't cut it.
Besides, why quit your corporate engineering job for a startup when you're making $80k+ in a city where money is everything?
kamakazizuru|13 years ago
Derpsec|13 years ago
i wiped my ass with everything that ceo had to say. join our moustache hipster 'hot startup', it'll take you 9 interviews but we're worth it. really? it's 2012 how about f you and your viral marketing video cloud service startup. you are parasites upon humanity making video spam and viewing metrics stats for car companies, penis pills and gambling. just admit you are shameless hucksters that are one peg above a spammer, ditch the synergies and ridiculous pretense.
if this guy enjoys the starbucks latte macfag synergies promoting corporate work environment that's great but this isn't 'hacking' this is pleading and begging to get a shitty job in yet another corporation that's just pretending to be super kawaii cool and awesome but when it comes down to it they'll lay this guy off in a heartbeat, sell the company to some megacorp and screw every employee royally. all startups do this. the guy who owns it buys back all your shares before he lays you off as a favour then keeps the money and sells out faster than Jay Leno in front of a bowl full of Doritos.
I bet they do excrement inducing "team building exercizes" at this way super coo startup. No matter what hipster clothes and mac products you put in front of the CEO he's Bill Lumberg from Office Space demanding TPS reports.
Finally the worst of this entire article was the buzzword 'growth hacker' which is newspeak for a spammer. Look at the definition article they link, some guy who basically manipulates CL ads to punt his junk, a marketer with coding experience, in other words, a fcking spammer. Protip: all of India and Pakistan are chock full of marketers who can code. This is not a revolutionary concept.
I would've shown up and given this guy a USB drive with 3 OSx exploits on it to corrupt client side memory and my "resume", then sold myself to him in person using balls not limp social media or stalking around linkedin and twitter. If they didn't hire me I'd have their source code to sell on blackhat SEO forums anyways so who cares.
mikle|13 years ago
hakaaak|13 years ago
johnnymonster|13 years ago
breckenedge|13 years ago
amarbirchahal|13 years ago
anotherbadlogin|13 years ago
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