Apple clearly don't believe the marginal profit hit involved in appealing to nerds is required to maintain their market position. I do hope they're wrong.
I realize many nerds are quite comfortable with the commoditization of computing equiment, and I appreciate many livelihoods depend on the shoehorning of new software through a requisite Apple ID and profit share with the app store, but somehow I still hope there are enough technology advocates left that have yet to sell their souls, to have some counterbearing on this brave new world of shitty, locked down, for-commercially-approved-consumption-and-entertainment-purposes-only overpriced disposable hardware.
Fuck the church of Apple and everything it stands for.
> Apple clearly don't believe the marginal profit hit involved in appealing to nerds is required to maintain their market position.
Considering that the period over which they went from laying on their deathbed to becoming one of the most highly-valued companies in the world falls entirely within the period over which they started making these kinds of design changes, they'd have to be downright stupid to believe otherwise.
But for the sake of unpacking that idea anyway, let me advance that what's really going on is that they don't believe that the wallet of a nerd who is fundamentally opposed to the basic idea behind their business model in the first place isn't really worth chasing after. Apple deciding not to solder RAM to the motherboard because it might make their computers slightly less unappealing to a certain class of nerd makes about as much sense as your local butcher deciding to stop carrying veal in an effort to get more vegans to come through the door.
Besides, I'm not convinced that RAM soldered to the board is a real practical complaint so much as yet another lightning bolt for an ideological grudge (I can't help but note the phrase "church of Apple"). We don't see the same griping about how the Raspberry Pi's RAM is soldered to the board. This even though it's a computer that, unlike the iMac, is specifically made for us tinkerers.
I really don't see the point in making desktop products super thin (there by making it inaccessible). Thinness is probably one of the last innovation area that customer may be excited for a desktop product. I would hope for better R&D direction in the future from Apple.
This was evident in the Apple stores this weekend, where I saw iMac tables failing to draw any crowd.
Yet mechanics continue to make excellent livings changing oil, repairing transmissions, and replacing brakes. Not because car companies conspire with mechanics' unions (are those a thing?), but because consumers don't want to or don't know how to do those things themselves.
For a massive percentage of Apple's customers (and customers of other computer makers as well, I'm sure), the same applies. The wailings of a handful of nerds, despite their volume, will never change that.
You access the hood of your car to fix it, not to upgrade it.
Solid state technology is much more reliable than the mechanical components of a car; especially over it's lifetime (cars are expected to last > 10 years, computers < 5). Those constraints lead to vastly different optimizations made in the design.
And, a hood inaccessible to me wouldn't materially impact my purchase decision of a particular car, since my ability to service my own car is pretty much zero.
For example, I don't even know how one accesses the "engine" of the Teslas but it doesn't bother me one bit that I can't access it.
It would be nice If this didn't actually matter now that RAM is so ridiculously cheap, but I imagine it's an easy resource for Apple to milk the customer for on optional upgrades and will be for a long time.
This is one reason why I bought the 15" MBP instead of the Retina. I fully expect this to be the last user-upgradable Mac, they seem to be moving everything towards an iPhone-like closed system.
With things at apple going this direction it seems that they don't want to make technology as long lived as it could be. I know people don't buy new products with the long run in mind in many cases, leaving folks with little alternative to a full upgrade after the warranty has expired and something goes wrong.
I myself have always enjoyed getting every last drop of life out of my computers. There is some joy in getting usefulness out of technology ten years out of date.
Everyone here needs to understand that they are talking about a computer WITH an understanding of computers. Ask mom and dad if they want to upgrade their ram. The answer is “huh?”. The concept of upgrading computers doesn’t exist to many MAC (or PC) owners.
Most users don’t give a shit about upgrading. When I was working in support, I remember a kid who had 19238012983 viruses on his computer. We formatted, reinstalled and 3 weeks later he was back again with 6 billion viruses. After formatting again, installing AV etc, he came back a few weeks later with a NEW laptop (back in 2002) because he thought the computer was the issue. He bought a whole new computer because he was too dumb to realize that HE was the problem.
Apple sees this, and makes their products to work for those people. And it works.
Hard drive died on your MBpro? Ahh man, time to get a new computer. (WTF?!).
Apple takes advantage of this and they do it really well. They purposely build items that you can’t fix/upgrade so you come back to them. Even if it is free, you come to the store and look at all the new stuff…which is enticing. It’s quite brilliant.
And this is why I don’t like the company. They are actually encouraging ignorance.
Apple probably figures that the number of users who firstly are willing to shell out big $$$ for a new iMac, but then also care about saving $150 or so by doing a 3rd party RAM upgrade (and voiding warranty?) is fairly minimal.
post jobs apple committee rule combined with their litigious policies towards android are the reason that I'm never giving any money to them again...(and I used to drop a lot of money their way)
How much of this is a result of an actual design consideration rather than an active attempt to prevent modding? That is, is the decision to use glue instead of magnets out of an engineering concern? It just seems by now, Apple is making fistfuls of money and the average customer is so fine with letting AppleCare fix anything that only a small pct of users would ever try to take it apart to add third party upgrades.
I guess there is a strong incentive to force users to replace computers after 3 years...but that seems shortsighted...a lot of people were loyal to Macs because they lasted longer than PCs...a customer who is using the same Mac body for 6 years may not be spending as much on hardware in the short term, but they'll have basically become a customer for life from then on.
Question is, will you need more than 8GB of memory in 3 years time if you are not doing something "intensive" like video editing (in which case Apple feels justified in charging you more for your computer)?
I remember the memory requirements for computers rising sharply in 2000 but this was mainly because people were making the switch over from single user systems like Win95 to proper multiuser systems like Win2000/XP and starting to do things like play video on their computers.
> That is, is the decision to use glue instead of magnets out of an engineering concern?
Some of the new iMacs are being assembled in the US from factory "D2". I suspect the decision to use glue instead of user serviceable parts like screws/magnets is to reduce the amount of human labor required for assembly.
[+] [-] hosay123|13 years ago|reply
I realize many nerds are quite comfortable with the commoditization of computing equiment, and I appreciate many livelihoods depend on the shoehorning of new software through a requisite Apple ID and profit share with the app store, but somehow I still hope there are enough technology advocates left that have yet to sell their souls, to have some counterbearing on this brave new world of shitty, locked down, for-commercially-approved-consumption-and-entertainment-purposes-only overpriced disposable hardware.
Fuck the church of Apple and everything it stands for.
[+] [-] bunderbunder|13 years ago|reply
Considering that the period over which they went from laying on their deathbed to becoming one of the most highly-valued companies in the world falls entirely within the period over which they started making these kinds of design changes, they'd have to be downright stupid to believe otherwise.
But for the sake of unpacking that idea anyway, let me advance that what's really going on is that they don't believe that the wallet of a nerd who is fundamentally opposed to the basic idea behind their business model in the first place isn't really worth chasing after. Apple deciding not to solder RAM to the motherboard because it might make their computers slightly less unappealing to a certain class of nerd makes about as much sense as your local butcher deciding to stop carrying veal in an effort to get more vegans to come through the door.
Besides, I'm not convinced that RAM soldered to the board is a real practical complaint so much as yet another lightning bolt for an ideological grudge (I can't help but note the phrase "church of Apple"). We don't see the same griping about how the Raspberry Pi's RAM is soldered to the board. This even though it's a computer that, unlike the iMac, is specifically made for us tinkerers.
[+] [-] eungyu|13 years ago|reply
I really don't see the point in making desktop products super thin (there by making it inaccessible). Thinness is probably one of the last innovation area that customer may be excited for a desktop product. I would hope for better R&D direction in the future from Apple.
This was evident in the Apple stores this weekend, where I saw iMac tables failing to draw any crowd.
[+] [-] Breakthrough|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fratis|13 years ago|reply
For a massive percentage of Apple's customers (and customers of other computer makers as well, I'm sure), the same applies. The wailings of a handful of nerds, despite their volume, will never change that.
[+] [-] shuw|13 years ago|reply
Solid state technology is much more reliable than the mechanical components of a car; especially over it's lifetime (cars are expected to last > 10 years, computers < 5). Those constraints lead to vastly different optimizations made in the design.
[+] [-] arn|13 years ago|reply
For example, I don't even know how one accesses the "engine" of the Teslas but it doesn't bother me one bit that I can't access it.
[+] [-] stephengillie|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] evoxed|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] akandiah|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] teilo|13 years ago|reply
Yeah, you can upgrade the RAM, but how do you replace a failing drive?
[+] [-] wahnfrieden|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sliverstorm|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bcl|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] untog|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] solac3|13 years ago|reply
With things at apple going this direction it seems that they don't want to make technology as long lived as it could be. I know people don't buy new products with the long run in mind in many cases, leaving folks with little alternative to a full upgrade after the warranty has expired and something goes wrong.
I myself have always enjoyed getting every last drop of life out of my computers. There is some joy in getting usefulness out of technology ten years out of date.
[+] [-] omnisci|13 years ago|reply
Most users don’t give a shit about upgrading. When I was working in support, I remember a kid who had 19238012983 viruses on his computer. We formatted, reinstalled and 3 weeks later he was back again with 6 billion viruses. After formatting again, installing AV etc, he came back a few weeks later with a NEW laptop (back in 2002) because he thought the computer was the issue. He bought a whole new computer because he was too dumb to realize that HE was the problem. Apple sees this, and makes their products to work for those people. And it works. Hard drive died on your MBpro? Ahh man, time to get a new computer. (WTF?!).
Apple takes advantage of this and they do it really well. They purposely build items that you can’t fix/upgrade so you come back to them. Even if it is free, you come to the store and look at all the new stuff…which is enticing. It’s quite brilliant. And this is why I don’t like the company. They are actually encouraging ignorance.
[+] [-] coffeedrinker|13 years ago|reply
You cannot even clean the dust out of the fan easily!
[+] [-] knowaveragejoe|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lurker14|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] damian2000|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dpitkin|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] j0j0r0|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danso|13 years ago|reply
I guess there is a strong incentive to force users to replace computers after 3 years...but that seems shortsighted...a lot of people were loyal to Macs because they lasted longer than PCs...a customer who is using the same Mac body for 6 years may not be spending as much on hardware in the short term, but they'll have basically become a customer for life from then on.
[+] [-] jiggy2011|13 years ago|reply
I remember the memory requirements for computers rising sharply in 2000 but this was mainly because people were making the switch over from single user systems like Win95 to proper multiuser systems like Win2000/XP and starting to do things like play video on their computers.
[+] [-] alwaysinshade|13 years ago|reply
Some of the new iMacs are being assembled in the US from factory "D2". I suspect the decision to use glue instead of user serviceable parts like screws/magnets is to reduce the amount of human labor required for assembly.
[+] [-] MaysonL|13 years ago|reply