Whatsapp is a little gem on a company which no one talk about. It's hard to get inside information about the company on the internet, and maybe that's the geniuses of co-founders. They don;t talk so much about the company and instead focus on building a quality product.
On a comparative note, the product is actually not so good(maybe because of the sacle they are operating on). They have problems with their backend, few of the front end apps are not so good eg blackberry but increasing number of users is an achievement which is the scary part for facebook.
I am in Pakistan. This is a place where most people don't use credit cards on the internet, sms packages are dirt cheap like $1/month for unlimited texting, and we have no 3G internet(only EDGE) but still majority of the people use whatsapp. Almost everybody i know uses whatsapp and they have been using for more than a year. One you get hooked on whatsapp people are forced to pay.
Whatsapp has a lot of potential to challenge facebook to a certain extend. They introduced profile pictures a while back, and the 'last seen at' update is like a gold. Ramp up whatsapp with a few BBM like features, extensive photo sharing, and geo location features(anonymously chat with people near you) and they can be a worthwhile competitor.
Why would you call a gem, a company which proliferates insecure walled IM gardens (based on non compliant XMPP which precludes using any normal clients), instead of advancing secure and federated IM networks based on standard XMPP interoperable with any compliant client? Their approach is really ugly.
Am I the only one who's a bit sad that the biggest success of a nice open-standards protocol (XMPP) has been it's usage in a closed-down proprietary form? I mean, Whatsapp have done some cool stuff, but I really would have liked to finally see a dominant but open instant messaging network.
My friends here in India use it because its free the first year. Almost everyone I know is on Whatsapp. But the moment they have to pay, everyone will switch. I know of nobody in person (who own the latest pretty expensive smartphones, except iphones which are not big in India) to have "ever paid for any" app.
Its not about being stingy, but more of a mentality where we know a hack/solution/pirated version/alternative will come around. It always does.
Besides, there's a small(very small or even very tiny) subset of mobile users who are actually using WhatsApp. Not even 50% of my smart phone using friends have 3G activated. Not 100% have Internet on mobile. So, you have to use SMS anyway, if you require messaging. + WhatsApp is very much broken - a broken identity management is one of the many broken things.
I ended up being textually abused by two persons when I first started using WhatsApp few months ago. The old cell numbers of many of my friends were assigned to others when they changed numbers and those were still in my phonebook. My friends forgot to dissociate the numbers from WhatsApp database and when I pinged(didn't pester) them(assuming they are my friends) two of them got pissed off real bad. And I was like - "WTF! This is WhatsApp?". So, WhatsApp assumes that as long as the user hasn't dissociated the numbers that user is still using WhatsApp and is doing with the same phone/account. See bottom
>>"the moment they have to pay, everyone will switch".
I can confirm at least three of my friends have already uninstalled the app after first year. It was eihter money or almost mostly very limited usability. the new player http://hike.in looks very promising. Hope it's not vapour. Especially the feature where it fills a huge hole - the other party doesn't need to have http://hike.in app installed and an internet connection is not a requirement for both the parties.
>>of nobody in person to have "ever paid for any" app
It's not as common place as in western countries(or purchases on that scale) but I sure know a lot in my circle who use paid apps. Really many. Well, I also pay for a lot of apps both on my Galaxy Nexus and Macbook Air but when it comes to buying one of those double digit dollar apps I do stop before buying and think whether I really need this? And is the free alternative isn't good enough? I have never had YES for either of the two questions, except once. I think this is good :-)
bottom: That was the last day I used WhatsApp. KakaoTalk is far better in that way, but except Koreans no else uses the app it seems.
What BBM could & should have been if those geniuses at the helm RIMM had any foresight. Apple made an iTunes version for Windows, Microsoft made Office for Mac. if those two could work past their differences for the sake of serving their customers, anyone can.
Early on, when iMessage was a pipe-dream &Gtalk a usability mess victim of Google's "everything must be web" orthodoxy, RIMM could have made a killing selling a robust no-frills honest-to-God messaging app for Android, iOS, Windows Phone & feature phones.What a waste.
"Apple made an iTunes version for Windows, Microsoft made Office for Mac. if those two could work past their differences for the sake of serving their customers, anyone can."
I understand what you're trying to say, but MS Office was first released for Mac (1989), then for Windows (1990). MS Word was released for Mac in 1984, later for Windows (1989).
Even before the Mac was released, Microsoft made products for Apple, like Applesoft BASIC and the Microsoft SoftCard.
Repeating my comments from the previous thread which was deleted for some reason:
Why would people be OK with constant security risk, but not OK with one time registration step for normal XMPP service? XMPP clients are available for all major desktop and mobile platforms. So it's a really interesting psychological hook that Whatsapp developers catch their users on here, offering a completely inferior solution, with selling it of for the fake attraction. And it's a really nasty thing to do - to play on people's ignorance regarding security.
So why would Facebook want to buy this monstrosity? The only valid reason could be to convert it to proper XMPP, then I'd applaud them, but on the other hand Facebook's own IM service isn't federated, which defeats the purpose. So it doesn't look like it can improve Whatsapp in any way.
As a long time user who profited from their first free download promotion, I have been wondering how the hell whatsapp can remain profitable for many years to come. Moving to .99 cents/year sounds great, but expect a massive user exodus.
Many users out there are stingy as hell. I have actually heard people argue that they don't want an iPhone because you have to pay for whatsapp...
Let's hope that their dominance of the market is enough to incentivize users to pay forever. Oh, and that they do not actually sell out to Facebook.
Dominance does not guarantee users' loyalty. Whatsapp is huge in Euope, but LINE[1], the Japanese alternative is now having an impressive growth in Spanish speaking countries. Las time I heard, they had 75 million users.
This demonstrates that this market is not still settled down and can still be disrupted.
The main reasons people is switching to LINE are stickers (huge emoticons that you get for free and with extra paid packages) and they have a desktop client, along with the possibility to run on iPods and iPads, probably Whatsapp's most requested feature.
Whatsapp is the perfect example of "solve something people need". You don't need to solve it "perfectly" or "10 times better".
Combined with network and lock-in effects, it's a great business on a good enough application and an obvious idea. Which makes it even more impressive.
P.S. I think many tried to do similar things before or after but failed. So I'm not quite sure what make whatsapp stand out. Any ideas? First comer? Better UX? Cheaper? Better cross-platform support? Better marketing?
I think it's cross-platform support plus the fact that you didn't have to sign up to create yet another account id that led to it's success. You install the app, run it and bam! Whoever's already using it is ready to talk, without having to invite/add and such stuff
Whatsapp is a perfect example of how not to solve something in a crooked way. Whatsapp developers should be ashamed for exploiting people's ignorance, and for luring users with fake convenience of skipping one time registration step for the price of constant security risk.
Guys, he's actually right. There are 204 sovereign states (secondary source, can't find the primary [0]), plus a handful of countries that are disputed (Palestine, Kosovo, etc.)
seems like a logical step for me. facebooks messenger is still lagging behind whatsapp in terms of features (ie. it lacks video and audio sharing) and most likely also in users. plus in the past year I've noticed quite a shift from communication on facebook to dedicated whatsapp groups. it's just a much more convenient way to share and chat with close friends and depending on the group you're in it can be kinda addictive. needless to say I would be very disappointed when whatsapp would become part of facebook (especially if it would be linked to my fb profile).
“At every company that sells ads, a significant portion of their engineering team spends their day tuning data mining, writing better code to collect all your personal data, upgrading the servers that hold all the data and making sure it’s all being logged and collated and sliced and packaged and shipped out… And at the end of the day the result of it all is a slightly different advertising banner in your browser or on your mobile screen. Remember, when advertising is involved you the user are the product.” [Koum's emphasis.]
And that is just one reason why a Whatsapp/Facebook acquisition would be a surprise. At other times, Koum has been public about his distaste for startups that sell out quickly. “Totally agree with Vinod Khosla,” he wrote in July. “People starting companies for a quick sale are a disgrace to the valley.” (He’s also, btw, noted that getting on TC shouldn’t be a goal in itself. Too true.)
[+] [-] zack12|13 years ago|reply
On a comparative note, the product is actually not so good(maybe because of the sacle they are operating on). They have problems with their backend, few of the front end apps are not so good eg blackberry but increasing number of users is an achievement which is the scary part for facebook. I am in Pakistan. This is a place where most people don't use credit cards on the internet, sms packages are dirt cheap like $1/month for unlimited texting, and we have no 3G internet(only EDGE) but still majority of the people use whatsapp. Almost everybody i know uses whatsapp and they have been using for more than a year. One you get hooked on whatsapp people are forced to pay.
Whatsapp has a lot of potential to challenge facebook to a certain extend. They introduced profile pictures a while back, and the 'last seen at' update is like a gold. Ramp up whatsapp with a few BBM like features, extensive photo sharing, and geo location features(anonymously chat with people near you) and they can be a worthwhile competitor.
[+] [-] shmerl|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Apocryphon|13 years ago|reply
http://fileperms.org/whatsapp-is-broken-really-broken/
I guess they didn't.
http://fileperms.org/whatsapp-security-fails-again/
[+] [-] dutchbrit|13 years ago|reply
I reported on the IMEI/Android issue by the way: http://samgranger.com/whatsapp-is-using-imei-numbers-as-pass...
Ezio Amodio reported it for iOS & Windows phone shortly afterwards: http://www.ezioamodio.it/?p=29 & http://www.ezioamodio.it/?p=49
[+] [-] sssparkkk|13 years ago|reply
Howcome Google hasn't bought these guys?
[+] [-] kang|13 years ago|reply
Its not about being stingy, but more of a mentality where we know a hack/solution/pirated version/alternative will come around. It always does.
[+] [-] fakeer|13 years ago|reply
I ended up being textually abused by two persons when I first started using WhatsApp few months ago. The old cell numbers of many of my friends were assigned to others when they changed numbers and those were still in my phonebook. My friends forgot to dissociate the numbers from WhatsApp database and when I pinged(didn't pester) them(assuming they are my friends) two of them got pissed off real bad. And I was like - "WTF! This is WhatsApp?". So, WhatsApp assumes that as long as the user hasn't dissociated the numbers that user is still using WhatsApp and is doing with the same phone/account. See bottom
>>"the moment they have to pay, everyone will switch".
I can confirm at least three of my friends have already uninstalled the app after first year. It was eihter money or almost mostly very limited usability. the new player http://hike.in looks very promising. Hope it's not vapour. Especially the feature where it fills a huge hole - the other party doesn't need to have http://hike.in app installed and an internet connection is not a requirement for both the parties.
>>of nobody in person to have "ever paid for any" app
It's not as common place as in western countries(or purchases on that scale) but I sure know a lot in my circle who use paid apps. Really many. Well, I also pay for a lot of apps both on my Galaxy Nexus and Macbook Air but when it comes to buying one of those double digit dollar apps I do stop before buying and think whether I really need this? And is the free alternative isn't good enough? I have never had YES for either of the two questions, except once. I think this is good :-)
bottom: That was the last day I used WhatsApp. KakaoTalk is far better in that way, but except Koreans no else uses the app it seems.
[+] [-] sami36|13 years ago|reply
Early on, when iMessage was a pipe-dream &Gtalk a usability mess victim of Google's "everything must be web" orthodoxy, RIMM could have made a killing selling a robust no-frills honest-to-God messaging app for Android, iOS, Windows Phone & feature phones.What a waste.
[+] [-] Samuel_Michon|13 years ago|reply
I understand what you're trying to say, but MS Office was first released for Mac (1989), then for Windows (1990). MS Word was released for Mac in 1984, later for Windows (1989).
Even before the Mac was released, Microsoft made products for Apple, like Applesoft BASIC and the Microsoft SoftCard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_office#Version_histor...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Word#Origins_and_grow...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applesoft_BASIC
http://apple2info.net/index.php?title=Microsoft_SoftCard
[+] [-] xoail|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jrmg|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] purplelobster|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jsilence|13 years ago|reply
There are good reasons today not to use WhatsApp.
[+] [-] shmerl|13 years ago|reply
Why would people be OK with constant security risk, but not OK with one time registration step for normal XMPP service? XMPP clients are available for all major desktop and mobile platforms. So it's a really interesting psychological hook that Whatsapp developers catch their users on here, offering a completely inferior solution, with selling it of for the fake attraction. And it's a really nasty thing to do - to play on people's ignorance regarding security.
So why would Facebook want to buy this monstrosity? The only valid reason could be to convert it to proper XMPP, then I'd applaud them, but on the other hand Facebook's own IM service isn't federated, which defeats the purpose. So it doesn't look like it can improve Whatsapp in any way.
[+] [-] gghootch|13 years ago|reply
Many users out there are stingy as hell. I have actually heard people argue that they don't want an iPhone because you have to pay for whatsapp...
Let's hope that their dominance of the market is enough to incentivize users to pay forever. Oh, and that they do not actually sell out to Facebook.
[+] [-] qnk|13 years ago|reply
This demonstrates that this market is not still settled down and can still be disrupted.
The main reasons people is switching to LINE are stickers (huge emoticons that you get for free and with extra paid packages) and they have a desktop client, along with the possibility to run on iPods and iPads, probably Whatsapp's most requested feature.
[1] http://line.naver.jp/
[+] [-] fmavituna|13 years ago|reply
Combined with network and lock-in effects, it's a great business on a good enough application and an obvious idea. Which makes it even more impressive.
P.S. I think many tried to do similar things before or after but failed. So I'm not quite sure what make whatsapp stand out. Any ideas? First comer? Better UX? Cheaper? Better cross-platform support? Better marketing?
[+] [-] sathyabhat|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shmerl|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xoail|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ComputerGuru|13 years ago|reply
There just simply aren't 250 countries.
0: http://imgur.com/rNDj4
(At the time of posting, parent was below zero)
[+] [-] DanBlake|13 years ago|reply
So incredibly crazy- More than 100k messages a second.
[+] [-] rwmj|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jcfrei|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 001sky|13 years ago|reply
And that is just one reason why a Whatsapp/Facebook acquisition would be a surprise. At other times, Koum has been public about his distaste for startups that sell out quickly. “Totally agree with Vinod Khosla,” he wrote in July. “People starting companies for a quick sale are a disgrace to the valley.” (He’s also, btw, noted that getting on TC shouldn’t be a goal in itself. Too true.)
-- Sounds like another loss for the good side.
[+] [-] iag|13 years ago|reply
Thoughts on this guys?
[+] [-] 89a|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] container|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Bullshituserid|13 years ago|reply
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