The interesting part of this case for me is that it underscores the tremendous differences between the US justice system and those of the rest of the world. In New Zeland, Kim Dotcom seems to at least be getting a fair chance. Their government seems to be willing to admit when it makes mistakes, and their judges seem apt to attempt to make amends when mistakes occur.
By contrast, in the US, all of the issues he has brought up so far would be dismissed by judges claiming they were harmless error because they are unlikely to affect the question of guilt or innocence. Of course, there is also no possibility of someone being sentenced to life in prison for stealing a piece of pizza in NZ either, which has happened and does happen frequently here in the US. It's sad to say, but other countries are making the US look less and less civilized every day.
>Of course, there is also no possibility of someone being sentenced to life in prison for stealing a piece of pizza in NZ either, which has happened and does happen frequently here in the US.
I can't find a single example of this. Some people are convicted for long sentences for violating 3 strikes rules, which are questionable, but I think you have exaggerated more than a little here.
[EDIT] [Added]
The comment below mentions this case, but the guy only did 6 years:
I looked around and there just are not many, if any cases like the OP describes. His comment is an exaggeration to say the least, and may even been an absurd exaggeration based on something he vaguely remembers from 1995.
The head of the GCSE at the time is now our Governor General. So the guy directly at fault is untouchable and the Prime Minister flatly denied (lying) all knowledge of any spying.
We're not so squeaky clean.
police search, illegal seizure raids, great show of force, attacking him in his safe-house, unlawfully intercepted communications, unlawful surveillance, (still!) freezing his accounts... But somehow people pirating music/films is the worlds biggest problem? I'd say any government willing to break so many of it's own laws is the problem.
Worse is any goverment willing to break their own laws for another government that is really a proxy for an industry... That's what's really scary about this
> I'd say any government willing to break so many of it's own laws is the problem.
And when the breaking of laws becomes too onerous or attracts too much attention, they simply change the law to make their behavior legal, e.g. NDAA in the USA.
I'm amazed at how the NZ institutions are putting their hands up and the courts seem to be working. It seems so different from so many of the stories/comments here regarding similar stuff in the US.
Hang on, does that indicate that NZ is perceived to be the most corrupt country on the scale? Just what countries are included, or excluded for that matter?
And both are getting stuck in the corruption of the system. More people need to combat it. Corruption exists in many forms. When you pay someone to get around the law you know it is corruption, but when a law is created to do one thing, but it is used for another thing it is also corruption.
Rapt when I saw this on the news last night. A hugely influential decision. Not only is the GCSE now liable for their actions, but it opens up the opportunity to sue other organizations, which we have been unable to do since the eighties.
I've been following Kim since my friend showed me the kimble.org flash website back in the early 2000's. All the events in his life could be an amazing story for a movie.
There is a worldwide effort going on right now to put a ownership sticker on the worldwide internet, that goal has been failing, so now they are settling for an "ownership of the internet in their jurisdiction", and that is failing too, so they do the next best thing: "Digital rights management" because oh god won't somebody think of the children with child pornography and music downloads!
It's about expanding the power base, the ultimate goal here is for governments to acquire the ability to tax every bit and byte that travels across their borders. Kim stands for freedom. Government, stay out of my shit, you have a few defined jobs and you're not doing any of them here.
Power corrupts and seeks more power, it's the human condition. I'm afraid a free neutral and open internet and the explosion of technology it brought will be a phenomenon for the history books either soon or eventually.
"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptable. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse Dune, Missionaria Protectiva
The exposure and removal of corruption is one of the ways in which the industry of societal governance is being disrupted and reformed.
I think you mean "...stands for the freedom to make money off of people in the same way he has been the last 2 decades, namely through at best shady and several times completely illegal and fraudulent means".
Yes, even scumbags have rights, absolutely! No, don't ever paint this egotistical, opportunistic allegorical hyperbole of a man as any sort of "hero" or "freedom fighter".
>It's about expanding the power base
On this point, I could not agree more with you. It has been my own impression for a LONG time that all those "you wouldn't steal a car" ads and all the media attention the RIAA/MPAA-mafia are getting for their strong-arm methods is really nothing but a very clever and calculated PR campaign to implant this actually non-existent problem in people's minds so that they then can lobby and extort money and continue increasing their power and influence/leverage on governments the world over. So what I am saying is, it was never about changing people's minds to not copy a CD or a movie but it was mainly about rallying and lobbying for their cause; a self-feeding cluster-frakk because the topic is then obviously "en vogue" so politicians can no longer ignore them and have to give in to their demands. When actually they do not make less money now than they did 15 years ago.
It is very sad to see how successful this has become, seeing NZ fold like that.
[+] [-] downandout|13 years ago|reply
By contrast, in the US, all of the issues he has brought up so far would be dismissed by judges claiming they were harmless error because they are unlikely to affect the question of guilt or innocence. Of course, there is also no possibility of someone being sentenced to life in prison for stealing a piece of pizza in NZ either, which has happened and does happen frequently here in the US. It's sad to say, but other countries are making the US look less and less civilized every day.
[+] [-] wtvanhest|13 years ago|reply
I can't find a single example of this. Some people are convicted for long sentences for violating 3 strikes rules, which are questionable, but I think you have exaggerated more than a little here.
[EDIT] [Added] The comment below mentions this case, but the guy only did 6 years:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/10/local/la-me-pizzathi...
I looked around and there just are not many, if any cases like the OP describes. His comment is an exaggeration to say the least, and may even been an absurd exaggeration based on something he vaguely remembers from 1995.
[+] [-] nvmc|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] digitalengineer|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cdooh|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] testeroni|13 years ago|reply
And when the breaking of laws becomes too onerous or attracts too much attention, they simply change the law to make their behavior legal, e.g. NDAA in the USA.
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dia80|13 years ago|reply
Corruption Perception Index:
NZ = 90 (1st) vs US = 73 (19th)
Not a coincidence?
[+] [-] ihsw|13 years ago|reply
Personally I feel that other nations should learn from this and implement similar policies.
[+] [-] J_Darnley|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] huhtenberg|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] illuminate|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maeon3|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] denzil_correa|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kzrdude|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GotAnyMegadeth|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skeletonjelly|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sigzero|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nvmc|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joeblau|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maeon3|13 years ago|reply
It's about expanding the power base, the ultimate goal here is for governments to acquire the ability to tax every bit and byte that travels across their borders. Kim stands for freedom. Government, stay out of my shit, you have a few defined jobs and you're not doing any of them here.
Power corrupts and seeks more power, it's the human condition. I'm afraid a free neutral and open internet and the explosion of technology it brought will be a phenomenon for the history books either soon or eventually.
[+] [-] stephengillie|13 years ago|reply
The exposure and removal of corruption is one of the ways in which the industry of societal governance is being disrupted and reformed.
[+] [-] mistercow|13 years ago|reply
I don't understand what connection you're drawing between CP and DRM.
[+] [-] kahawe|13 years ago|reply
I think you mean "...stands for the freedom to make money off of people in the same way he has been the last 2 decades, namely through at best shady and several times completely illegal and fraudulent means".
Yes, even scumbags have rights, absolutely! No, don't ever paint this egotistical, opportunistic allegorical hyperbole of a man as any sort of "hero" or "freedom fighter".
>It's about expanding the power base
On this point, I could not agree more with you. It has been my own impression for a LONG time that all those "you wouldn't steal a car" ads and all the media attention the RIAA/MPAA-mafia are getting for their strong-arm methods is really nothing but a very clever and calculated PR campaign to implant this actually non-existent problem in people's minds so that they then can lobby and extort money and continue increasing their power and influence/leverage on governments the world over. So what I am saying is, it was never about changing people's minds to not copy a CD or a movie but it was mainly about rallying and lobbying for their cause; a self-feeding cluster-frakk because the topic is then obviously "en vogue" so politicians can no longer ignore them and have to give in to their demands. When actually they do not make less money now than they did 15 years ago.
It is very sad to see how successful this has become, seeing NZ fold like that.