While I personally like the DIY ethic I would be somewhat hesitant to recommend a novice starts developing production web apps.
For example , someone has a great idea for a site, picks up a basic PHP book, reads all of the "advice" on PHP.net and hacks it all together with a few copy and pastes from various coding forums.
Let's say they get some traction and pick up a few hundred users who start putting personal info in there , reusing their bank password and linking it to all of their social media accounts.
Problem is that the app is a mess of md5 or plaintext passwords and unsanitised input and when that thing gets owned by some hacker it can have real consequences to those users who trusted it.
This might be slightly hypocritical though, since this is basically how I learned to code in my early days but now people have so much of their life online that the stakes are a little higher.
...not to be mean, but if you reuse passwords without at least having 2 of them (one for secure, money related stuff and another for everything else), you deserve having your account cleaned and identity stolen.
Considering the world we leave in, I think that "basic personal informational security", like not reusing passwords, not executing email attachments and not falling for basic social engineering scams should be mandatory thought in schools starting from 10 year olds, and have something like "medium personal information security" (with knowledge of what a secued connection - green browser bar is, what a digital signature and key based authentication or multi-factor auth are) mandatory for all people handling other's personal information, even for the lowest public functionaries. These things should be drilled down into peoples' heads not matter they want to learn it or not, just as you don't ask your 7 year old whether he wants to learn to read and write, you just tell him he has to. It shouldn't matter whether you're a literature major or maybe you haven't even graduated high school, but if you have anything to do with handling others information - and 90% of people do have - you should know basic infosec just as you need to know to read and write! It's ugly, but we're living in an ugly world and in the middle of a war, even if it's invisible, and we should adapt to it!
>For example , someone has a great idea for a site, picks up a basic PHP book, reads all of the "advice" on PHP.net and hacks it all together with a few copy and pastes from various coding forums.
You mean exactly what happened with CDBaby, the site the author of TFA created, which became a highly successful business?
Is that a bad thing?
As for the lax security thing, we have seen this too many times in supposedly big and respected web services to be particularly fearful of a newcomer. (Not to mention that the same risks to users that happen by accident by some newb programmer, can also happen by intent, by malicious companies putting up fake businesses and such. People should be vigilant in any case).
There are a couple of answers I can give here:
1) When the company grows large enough, it will hire people and fix this. If it's small, it cannot do damage to many people anyway.
2) The most important services (credit cards and such) are in most cases delegated to third parties anyway (Paypal, Stripe, etc).
As another anecdote, despite having two technical co-founders for my first startup, I taught myself how to code. I consider it the best move I've made in the last 5 years.
Now on my 2nd startup, my highly technical co-founder recently left. If I hadn't learned how to code, I'd be in full panic mode right now. Going from "the business guy" a couple years ago to being able to build an MVP is huge.
I have a friend who has a Master's in Entertainment Arts & Engineering (with and emphasis on the arts) and is going back to get a bachelor's in computer science for this very reason. Maybe it's overkill, but he's definitely tired of depending on other people to build his stuff for him.
This could not be more true. Forever, i said the same shit. I have amazing ideas but I know nothing about programming. I started learning html and css and love it. Cant wait to master it before moving on to another language. It truly is rewarding and I certainly look at websites differently.
I have no issue with HTML/CSS and a bit of Javascript. But still find it surprisingly hard to get my head around native development languages (C, Obj-C, Python etc)
As someone who is also learning to program, I think the most difficult things are not the actual languages and using the right syntax etc. It's the meta information and terms that are used, as well as a lot of tutorials making assumptions ie. I had to find out what a 'gem' was.
Recently starting to look at Ruby, I had to work out the different between a live environment like irb and just having code written into a text editor such as Sublime.
I have a feeling that these kinds of things throw people off, and I'm yet to find a great resource that really explains these things clearly all in one place.
Ruby is a good language to learn. There are a massive amount of resources out there for people trying to learn. Check out codecademy or codeschool for their tutorials. They can really help you learn the basics.
Another tip is try to actually build some basic programs. You can learn so much more from building something than reading about it.
I was in the same boat nearly a year ago. I had knowledge of HTML and CSS and not much else. Since then, I've learned Ruby, Rails, and a little of Objective-C. I feel so much better now that I have the confidence to build anything I want.
I definitely recommend anyone that wants to learn programming to go all in and pick up a few languages.
[+] [-] jiggy2011|13 years ago|reply
For example , someone has a great idea for a site, picks up a basic PHP book, reads all of the "advice" on PHP.net and hacks it all together with a few copy and pastes from various coding forums.
Let's say they get some traction and pick up a few hundred users who start putting personal info in there , reusing their bank password and linking it to all of their social media accounts.
Problem is that the app is a mess of md5 or plaintext passwords and unsanitised input and when that thing gets owned by some hacker it can have real consequences to those users who trusted it.
This might be slightly hypocritical though, since this is basically how I learned to code in my early days but now people have so much of their life online that the stakes are a little higher.
[+] [-] nnq|13 years ago|reply
Considering the world we leave in, I think that "basic personal informational security", like not reusing passwords, not executing email attachments and not falling for basic social engineering scams should be mandatory thought in schools starting from 10 year olds, and have something like "medium personal information security" (with knowledge of what a secued connection - green browser bar is, what a digital signature and key based authentication or multi-factor auth are) mandatory for all people handling other's personal information, even for the lowest public functionaries. These things should be drilled down into peoples' heads not matter they want to learn it or not, just as you don't ask your 7 year old whether he wants to learn to read and write, you just tell him he has to. It shouldn't matter whether you're a literature major or maybe you haven't even graduated high school, but if you have anything to do with handling others information - and 90% of people do have - you should know basic infosec just as you need to know to read and write! It's ugly, but we're living in an ugly world and in the middle of a war, even if it's invisible, and we should adapt to it!
[+] [-] pretoriusB|13 years ago|reply
You mean exactly what happened with CDBaby, the site the author of TFA created, which became a highly successful business?
Is that a bad thing?
As for the lax security thing, we have seen this too many times in supposedly big and respected web services to be particularly fearful of a newcomer. (Not to mention that the same risks to users that happen by accident by some newb programmer, can also happen by intent, by malicious companies putting up fake businesses and such. People should be vigilant in any case).
There are a couple of answers I can give here:
1) When the company grows large enough, it will hire people and fix this. If it's small, it cannot do damage to many people anyway.
2) The most important services (credit cards and such) are in most cases delegated to third parties anyway (Paypal, Stripe, etc).
[+] [-] andrewcross|13 years ago|reply
Now on my 2nd startup, my highly technical co-founder recently left. If I hadn't learned how to code, I'd be in full panic mode right now. Going from "the business guy" a couple years ago to being able to build an MVP is huge.
[+] [-] evincarofautumn|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ebertx|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] apl002|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hardik988|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nthnclrk|13 years ago|reply
As someone who is also learning to program, I think the most difficult things are not the actual languages and using the right syntax etc. It's the meta information and terms that are used, as well as a lot of tutorials making assumptions ie. I had to find out what a 'gem' was.
Recently starting to look at Ruby, I had to work out the different between a live environment like irb and just having code written into a text editor such as Sublime.
I have a feeling that these kinds of things throw people off, and I'm yet to find a great resource that really explains these things clearly all in one place.
[+] [-] schiang|13 years ago|reply
Another tip is try to actually build some basic programs. You can learn so much more from building something than reading about it.
[+] [-] schiang|13 years ago|reply
I definitely recommend anyone that wants to learn programming to go all in and pick up a few languages.
[+] [-] p3d4nt|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] IheartApplesDix|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stesch|13 years ago|reply
I gave up on BASIC in the 1980s. Maybe something cool has happened and I'm missing out?
[+] [-] phponrails|13 years ago|reply