> I obviously can't afford to give my work away for free, but for you to get maximum benefit out of it, it needs to be open source.
Who is it obvious to? This is the first time I've heard of you. For all I know you could afford to give it away for free. And often in the case of open source, you reap the benefits later.
Sounds like a great project, and the screenshots are promising.
It's ransomware, yeah. Historically this is never (I mean, literally never AFAIK) been a good way to start a successful open source project. This might fool a few people (who like source in principle, but who don't want to muck with it themselves) into thinking it's "almost as good as open" and contributing. But it's deeply, deeply disrespectful to the community you will actually need to build if you want this to succeeed. Basically the funders end up being dupes; there's no community and probably never will be.
I agree it looks cute, and I'd love to try it if it were available. But I certainly won't be funding it.
I always had trouble with the lack of a folder list in mutt. My friend is close to convincing me to give the mutt-patched package in debian a chance.[1] All I need to do is find a decent muttrc that is not super tweaked like my friend's config and then stumble along until I figure out what I need to change. For some reason I have always been confused/overwhelmed/putt-off by the coloring schemes when I have used mutt in the past.
Yes, even on my N900 where I have Emacs+Org-Mode, I still SSH in to my mail server and run mutt. Mostly because I'm lazy, but also because every other mail client I've ever tried has just sucked more :)
I don't know how I feel about the closed source -> kickstarter -> open source model. Why not just put it on github now and get people using it?
Unrelated to the product, but I'd change your highlighting on the site to something other than blue - ux wise it makes me think it's going to be a link.
thanks :) the GUI is mostly Twitter Bootstrap + Font Awesome + GWT
I was also not so sure about using Kickstarter for source code, but then i stumbled upon Light Table, which is a coding tool sold there.
I'd really like to continue working on it to make it more polished and for that i need some way to get money out of it. I could, of course, try to sell it as a SaaS project, but that would block people from hacking it.
That might be correct. It's pretty hard to read people's minds before meeting them ;)
I really like the GMail editor and their table view. That's why my inbox view looks so much alike :)
What i, however, honestly dislike is their overall sluggishness. GMail seems pretty slow and last time i tried, their offline mode didn't work well enough so that i could use it to work on a train.
So i try to use the good GMail editor and combine it with the somewhat OK Outlook offline mode. But as a complete package, i hate working with both of those.
Correct. I'd wager that "skirmish-tested" doesn't sound as good, though ;)
What i mean to say is that i'm very confident that it works good enough for a more-or-less public beta. Of course, much work still remains to make it compatible with every IMAP server out there, but as a single person i won't have the time nor the resources to get there.
Medium to large companies, they need some sort of calendaring and meeting room booking system. This is where outlook (more importantly exchange) comes into the picture. I don't think it's the best solution out there, but it's a solution that works reasonably well.
I also don't really like that email and calendaring are tied together, I'd love to see a robust solution that works across Windows, Mac, Linux, Android and iOS. Yishan Wong wrote about this a few years ago.[1]
So, this would work great for personal email and small companies, but I don't see it replacing the email client of the larger ones. I'd love to see gmail and microsoft give some of these search/indexing features.
Yes, Outlook is great for time planning .. if all of your team uses it. However, most people that send me emails use GMail or other web mailers and thus Exchange is not really a benefit in that regard.
Before i started my work on this client, i used Outlook 2011 and i'm still paying for hosted Exchange so yes, i think they are both reasonably designed products.
It's just that Outlook doesn't suit my workflow of dealing with email. And it can be pretty slow at times. And it sometimes doesn't sync well after offline mode.
Hi Hajo, this looks great! I'm an Emacs addict though, and the main reason I'm not using Gnus anymore is that I haven't found a IMAP syncing solution that "just works" (last time I've checked). Since it sounds like you've solved this problem, is there any chance the syncing module can be run standalone? If so I'll most definitely chip in on your Kickstarter.
I've been knee deep in imap for the last month or two. As a curiosity, which imap library are you using? I've had to contribute a few patches to ruby's net/imap already to get it to successfully parse all the mail I've accumulated over the last 10 years :)
If you offered a license for web hosts to use this, I think I know a whole bunch of coders and designers who would gladly pay for a hackable IMAP client. Kickstarter isn't a bad idea, but you should also try polling people to find out if you could set up SaaS at the same time or some other scheme. There are many possibilities...
The program is structured in a way that you can use it both as a hosted webmail AND as a locally running client. I needed that so i can use the web version from my iphone and sync my laptops for offline use.
But for web hosts i think they would prefer a solution for multiple users. This is designed for one person with multiple email accounts, so they would need to start the webgui program multiple times to host multiple users.
As for SaaS i'd rather have the users host their own version on Heroku or EC2 than having to manage all those clients.
I'm a freelancer and as such i don't have an employer paying me to contribute to open source projects. This means that i need money to be able to afford to spend more time on this project.
"not open source" This post is here to discuss options for changing that.
"web based" I'd say that is a plus, because you can have the same GUI running locally (and fast) on your computer and running remotely (and slow) on your web server. I know that WebKit has a huge overhead compared to emacs or mutt, but since about every second email that i receive is HTML anyway, i won't be able to avoid WebKit / Gecko.
"html emails" I have to write email to normal people too. I know it's sad, but most of my friends prefer HTML emails with pictures. That said, some of my existing beta testers are using it to send around HTML newsletters.
"no PGP support" correct. I've never used it and (see below) the PGP signatures seem to irritate some people.
"IMAP client tied to MUA" correct. I chose to go this way to finally have fast and working offline mode with synchronization
"no mention of keybindings" I implemented CMD+I for INBOX and CMD+S for search. Since i didn't miss anything else, i didn't implement them.
I consider myself a coder/hacker and i built this to suit my workflow, so i thought that description to be accurate.
"I'm a little sad that this link got so much upvotes" I'd say this is a good thing because it gives us the possibility to discuss what you dislike about my email client or email in general.
BTW, i'd be interested in what solution you currently use. Maybe that'll also help others that drift here to find their new perfect mail client.
I'm a freelancer and if i work for free, i do not have any money. So for me to be able to develop and share this freely, i would probably need some big corporation that is willing to pay me for working on it.
I'd also be interested in how those projects come up with the money to pay a professional designer. Roundcube looks very sleek, as if it was designed professionally.
BTW, what i'm developing isn't exactly a webmail client. It is an server-side IMAP gateway and a client so that you can use it completely offline.
i think this with good indexing/search capabilities, and tagging (like gmail) and PGP support with a clean web-UI that supports multiple screen sizes (devices) is an ABSOLUTE HIT!
run one on my phone! and/or over https on _MY_ server. then build calendar-chat-etc in.
[+] [-] benatkin|13 years ago|reply
Who is it obvious to? This is the first time I've heard of you. For all I know you could afford to give it away for free. And often in the case of open source, you reap the benefits later.
Sounds like a great project, and the screenshots are promising.
[+] [-] ajross|13 years ago|reply
I agree it looks cute, and I'd love to try it if it were available. But I certainly won't be funding it.
[+] [-] AceJohnny2|13 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutt_(email_client)
[+] [-] dfc|13 years ago|reply
[1] Patch: http://www.lunar-linux.org/mutt-sidebar/
[2] Screenshot: http://screenshots.debian.net/screenshots/m/mutt-patched/456...
[+] [-] npsimons|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fxtentacle|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] icebraining|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] IheartApplesDix|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zaius|13 years ago|reply
I don't know how I feel about the closed source -> kickstarter -> open source model. Why not just put it on github now and get people using it?
Unrelated to the product, but I'd change your highlighting on the site to something other than blue - ux wise it makes me think it's going to be a link.
[+] [-] fxtentacle|13 years ago|reply
I was also not so sure about using Kickstarter for source code, but then i stumbled upon Light Table, which is a coding tool sold there.
I'd really like to continue working on it to make it more polished and for that i need some way to get money out of it. I could, of course, try to sell it as a SaaS project, but that would block people from hacking it.
[+] [-] jamesaguilar|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fxtentacle|13 years ago|reply
I really like the GMail editor and their table view. That's why my inbox view looks so much alike :)
What i, however, honestly dislike is their overall sluggishness. GMail seems pretty slow and last time i tried, their offline mode didn't work well enough so that i could use it to work on a train.
So i try to use the good GMail editor and combine it with the somewhat OK Outlook offline mode. But as a complete package, i hate working with both of those.
[+] [-] Andrex|13 years ago|reply
http://i.minus.com/ib0I7hmj8fzm2b.png
(User stylesheet here: https://gist.github.com/4650448)
[+] [-] jcoder|13 years ago|reply
A very small battle. More a skirmish, really.
[+] [-] fxtentacle|13 years ago|reply
What i mean to say is that i'm very confident that it works good enough for a more-or-less public beta. Of course, much work still remains to make it compatible with every IMAP server out there, but as a single person i won't have the time nor the resources to get there.
[+] [-] patangay|13 years ago|reply
Medium to large companies, they need some sort of calendaring and meeting room booking system. This is where outlook (more importantly exchange) comes into the picture. I don't think it's the best solution out there, but it's a solution that works reasonably well.
I also don't really like that email and calendaring are tied together, I'd love to see a robust solution that works across Windows, Mac, Linux, Android and iOS. Yishan Wong wrote about this a few years ago.[1]
So, this would work great for personal email and small companies, but I don't see it replacing the email client of the larger ones. I'd love to see gmail and microsoft give some of these search/indexing features.
[1] http://algeri-wong.com/yishan/great-unsolved-problems-in-com...
[+] [-] fxtentacle|13 years ago|reply
Before i started my work on this client, i used Outlook 2011 and i'm still paying for hosted Exchange so yes, i think they are both reasonably designed products.
It's just that Outlook doesn't suit my workflow of dealing with email. And it can be pretty slow at times. And it sometimes doesn't sync well after offline mode.
[+] [-] AmericanOP|13 years ago|reply
Drop me a line if you want to chat danny (@) outlook.com.
[+] [-] IheartApplesDix|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fxtentacle|13 years ago|reply
mail at hajo (dot) me
[+] [-] julian37|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ante_annum|13 years ago|reply
I'd like to keep my front-end as absolutely light as possible, so I'm foregoing gwt/bootstrap and going with mostly just handwritten jquery.
[+] [-] tonyarkles|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] evoxed|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fxtentacle|13 years ago|reply
But for web hosts i think they would prefer a solution for multiple users. This is designed for one person with multiple email accounts, so they would need to start the webgui program multiple times to host multiple users.
As for SaaS i'd rather have the users host their own version on Heroku or EC2 than having to manage all those clients.
[+] [-] X-Istence|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zoidb|13 years ago|reply
Why is that obvious?
[+] [-] acchow|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fxtentacle|13 years ago|reply
I'm a freelancer and as such i don't have an employer paying me to contribute to open source projects. This means that i need money to be able to afford to spend more time on this project.
[+] [-] p4bl0|13 years ago|reply
Nope. Not for coders. Even less for "hackers" as the webpage say.
And that's just technicalities, but as others already said, "I obviously can't afford to give my work away for free"… well, sigh.
I'm not saying everyone should use Mutt or read their email in Emacs, but I'm a little sad that this link got so much upvotes.
[+] [-] fxtentacle|13 years ago|reply
"web based" I'd say that is a plus, because you can have the same GUI running locally (and fast) on your computer and running remotely (and slow) on your web server. I know that WebKit has a huge overhead compared to emacs or mutt, but since about every second email that i receive is HTML anyway, i won't be able to avoid WebKit / Gecko.
"html emails" I have to write email to normal people too. I know it's sad, but most of my friends prefer HTML emails with pictures. That said, some of my existing beta testers are using it to send around HTML newsletters.
"no PGP support" correct. I've never used it and (see below) the PGP signatures seem to irritate some people.
"IMAP client tied to MUA" correct. I chose to go this way to finally have fast and working offline mode with synchronization
"no mention of keybindings" I implemented CMD+I for INBOX and CMD+S for search. Since i didn't miss anything else, i didn't implement them.
I consider myself a coder/hacker and i built this to suit my workflow, so i thought that description to be accurate.
"I'm a little sad that this link got so much upvotes" I'd say this is a good thing because it gives us the possibility to discuss what you dislike about my email client or email in general.
BTW, i'd be interested in what solution you currently use. Maybe that'll also help others that drift here to find their new perfect mail client.
[+] [-] tillk|13 years ago|reply
> I obviously can't afford to give my work away for free, but for you to get maximum benefit out of it, it needs to be open source.
Meet others who can afford to give away their work for free:
http://squirrelmail.org/ http://roundcube.net/ http://www.xuheki.com/ http://www.horde.org/apps/imp
And there is more — google: webmail client open source
[+] [-] fxtentacle|13 years ago|reply
I'm a freelancer and if i work for free, i do not have any money. So for me to be able to develop and share this freely, i would probably need some big corporation that is willing to pay me for working on it.
I'd also be interested in how those projects come up with the money to pay a professional designer. Roundcube looks very sleek, as if it was designed professionally.
BTW, what i'm developing isn't exactly a webmail client. It is an server-side IMAP gateway and a client so that you can use it completely offline.
[+] [-] cies|13 years ago|reply
run one on my phone! and/or over https on _MY_ server. then build calendar-chat-etc in.
wow..
[+] [-] tonybaroneee|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fxtentacle|13 years ago|reply
https://github.com/fxtentacle/hajo-page-editor
[+] [-] antifuchs|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ante_annum|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] javert|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jayniz|13 years ago|reply
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