top | item 5270348

I mortgaged my future with a Mac

118 points| pauljonas | 13 years ago |rachelbythebay.com | reply

126 comments

order
[+] epistasis|13 years ago|reply
I'm not sure I understand the specific complaints in the post. The metadata in iTunes is stored in a standard way, attached to the audio files themselves. All the playlists, repeated track infromation, etc, is stored in an XML file with simple structure. This should be as easy to convert as if the music database had been stored anywhere else.

Similarly, for iPhoto, much of the metadata is attached to the photos themselves. The album information is in very simple XML. I'm not sure how the cropping, rotation, etc, are stored, but the final JPEG can be exported from the UI, and nearly all these applications are highly scriptable.

Storing data in any application results in some restrictions in how that data can be transformed and/or used in the future. The iApps use fairly transparent data formats that are accessible to pretty much any programmer. I'm not sure if there's any open source alternatives to these apps that make it much easier to pull out data. Putting data in these apps is not mortgaging your future as much as putting your documents in MS Office format, for example.

[+] spindritf|13 years ago|reply
> Storing data in any application results in some restrictions in how that data can be transformed and/or used in the future.

And not all applications are equal in that regard. I store plenty of data in Dropbox, never run into any problems. Same with git, mutt, Shotwell, Rhythmbox... Usually, exporting doesn't involve any action. All the data is just stored in files that can be used by any application.

There is a strong correlation between free software and convenient data formats. Why pretend that all software has those same problems to a similar degree?

[+] crististm|13 years ago|reply
"Storing data in any application results in some restrictions [...]" - I think you understand her point pretty well.
[+] rayiner|13 years ago|reply
Sitting here, still using a Mac as a dev/everything machine. I know Lion is supposed to suck and all, but my 2010 MBA still gets insane battery life under OS X, the tool chain is top-notch (Clang, LLVM, etc), there have been a ton of improvements under the hood (TLS support being a big one), and I actually appreciate full-screen XCode or Emacs given the 13" screen. Even Xcode seems to, in 4.6, be getting back to the stability levels of 3.x.

I'm not seeing it. This "Apple doesn't care about the Mac" "OS X is going downhill" griping is lost on me. Was 10.4 -> 10.5 really a much bigger change? Or 10.5 -> 10.6? OS X has always had very incremental, gradual changes, and now that it's pushing more than a decade old it's pretty mature and doesn't need to be revamped every other day. At the same time, for all the teeth gnashing about walled gardens, Apple still ships the thing with a terminal, there is XCode in the App Store, etc.

[+] niggler|13 years ago|reply
"Apple doesn't care about the Mac"

There are two different arguments here:

1) Apple axed xserve and basically made it a risk to depend on osx servers (they may decide to axe the mac pro without warning). This is a legitimate argument.

2) The OS feels more consumer based and buggy. I think osx coasted on the lack of popularity for years (if you are writing malware, are you going to target a small mac population or the wide windows population?) and the market penetration is improving. So what we are seeing now is the world adjusting to the idea that osx is a more popular OS.

[+] crusso|13 years ago|reply
Yeah, this is a really weak set of complaints to sail to the number one HN spot on a Saturday.

None of the problems seem like real problems.

Even the concern that Apple is post-Steve is insubstantial. I'm watching for signs of that eventual decline as much as the next Apple user, but there isn't any product degradation evidence... yet.

[+] bitcartel|13 years ago|reply
I've never managed to get the advertised battery life out of an MBA, even when straight out of the box. What kind of battery life are you getting? What is your battery cycle count?
[+] revelation|13 years ago|reply
Not an OSX user, but many of the complaints seem to stem from Apples crusade on filesystems. For many (even not power users) this can lead to data loss; you open a file and sketch out some changes, and everything was magically written to the disk without you ever noticing so now you can't get the old data back.
[+] miles|13 years ago|reply
But, I'm stuck. All of my music is in iTunes, having been re-imported from the original CDs over a period of time. I can just re-rip all of it on my Linux box, but that's going to suck. Or, I can try to grovel around in their grungy database and try to make sense of it and "export" things, but I'm sure that will be even worse.

You'll find all of your music neatly organized here: /Users/username/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music/Music

Another problem is going to be iPhoto. I've cropped, rotated, geotagged, sharpened, level-adjusted, and done countless other things to my thousands of pictures. They all also live in some database which is effectively opaque. While there's probably some way to get it out, it will be far from trivial.

It's pretty trivial:

http://macs.about.com/od/appleconsumersoftware/ss/Iphoto-Lib...

You can export the original or current versions, as well as converting to JPEG, TIFF, or PNG, retaining location info, metadata, etc (depending on the chosen format). Exported photos can be assigned filenames by title, original filename, sequence, or album name with number.

[+] philiac|13 years ago|reply
The author seems to desire a needlessly complicated way to make these things happen.
[+] dechols|13 years ago|reply
It does not matter the platform you use. The data you use is far, far more important.

I use Windows 8, Linux, and Mac OSX boxes on a daily basis. I play music from all of them. I watch movies, view photos, and browse the web from all of them. I code on all of them.

The reason I'm able to do this is because I've relentlessly managed my data and set up systems to allow that data to be shared effectively between environments.

All of these people who say, "this OS is way better!" are missing the point. Each one does a good job at something. Here's a surface analysis:

Linux: Best for automation. LAMPP. Industrial strength box for administration, security, and development. Great performance. Has problems with applications that require advanced graphics or specific sets of drivers (read: games). Can accomplish almost all basic computing tasks without an issue. All of these things make it a great server OS and great for high performance applications too.

Mac: Best for consumption. Beautiful UI, intuitive software, merging of hardware and software. Has problems with any sort of software that requires performant hardware because hardware is far more expensive. Can accomplish almost all basic computing tasks without an issue. All of these things make it a great laptop OS.

Windows: Best for games. Good performance. Not as good performance as linux, but incredible driver support means that most users will see better performance on Windows. Can accomplish almost all basic computing tasks without an issue. Makes Windows by far the best gaming box, but also very comparable to other OS in other applications (except server role.)

The lesson here is: Use the right tool for the right job, and make your data tool agnostic.

[+] eric-hu|13 years ago|reply
If I may ask, what do you code on each platform?

I've got my vim files set up to be mostly cross compatible between OS X and Ubuntu, but I recently borfed my build process on Ubuntu (12.04) by upgrading vim to a newer version on a custom PPA.

[+] scholia|13 years ago|reply
You left out: "Windows: Best for business and enterprise software"
[+] mgkimsal|13 years ago|reply
I mortgaged my future with KDE several years ago, and the KDE project "went off the rails" with v4. My usual ways of working weren't improved with new benefits - the entire rug was pulled out from under me. All my effort in learning KDE stuff, and putting my data in KDE apps was wasted, as I had to spend time to migrate all that data to other apps.

I'm being somewhat sarcastic, but also honest - I used KDE as a primary desktop for several years, but v4 was too radically different, and migrating away to another system was not fun.

[+] w1ntermute|13 years ago|reply
You should've just waited a year or two and not upgraded to KDE 4. KDE 4.10 (the latest version) works just fine.

That said, I'm an Xfce user, and I love it because things never change.

[+] crististm|13 years ago|reply
When I could not bear the KDE4 anymore, I tried KDE3 again for a while and then switched to Xfce. If they deviate from their goal I'll figure out what to do. But for now, KDE4 and Gnome3 are out of the question.
[+] niggler|13 years ago|reply
"So, I just sat there and lived the passive life of a consumer at home. I clicked around the web and read stuff. I talked to people online. I listened to my music and watched the latest cat videos. I watched a lot of TV. But I didn't write any code. Oh no."

nothing stops you from writing code on OSX. Plenty of people do it for their business. IOKit is strange coming from a Linux world, sure, but it works as well as you would expect. It's a pain but it's possible to write kexts and other low level osx stuff.

"All of my music is in iTunes, having been re-imported from the original CDs over a period of time. I can just re-rip all of it on my Linux box, but that's going to suck. Or, I can try to grovel around in their grungy database and try to make sense of it and "export" things, but I'm sure that will be even worse."

I don't understand the itunes complaint here. If you are leaving the mac ecosystem, the most you lose is the playlists -- the metadata is still stored in the individual files and VLC is perfectly competent in playing those files. It's not like itunes magically combined all the files in one big mess.

"Then there's my phone. How do you use one of these things without a computer upon which to sync your data and backups?"

Windows VM?

[+] spartango|13 years ago|reply
> IOKit is strange coming from a Linux world, sure, but it works as well as you would expect. It's a pain but it's possible to write kexts and other low level osx stuff.

Indeed, I've found working with IOKit and kernel-mode bits in OSX a nicer experience than in Linux. Some of the things were very well thought out and quite elegant, and their documentation is surprisingly good.

[+] gammarator|13 years ago|reply
"But I didn't write any code. Oh no."

I think this was a reference to burnout from work, not a complaint about the OS X dev environment.

[+] mtts|13 years ago|reply
>> "Then there's my phone. How do you use one of these things without a computer upon which to sync your data and backups?" >> Windows VM?

That only works when you disable USB on the host (which makes USB keyboards and mice temporarily unusable) while the Windows VM is running. And even then it sometimes just stops working after a while.

It's one of the reasons I ditched my iPhone and got an Android device.

[+] onedognight|13 years ago|reply
> If you are leaving the mac ecosystem, the most you lose is the playlists

Right-click -> "Export" -> Select M3U8

[+] comex|13 years ago|reply
It's hard to tell what the author's actual complaints about OS X are (the reasons why she's moving away from it) - there's a Lion bug that's extremely unrealistically blamed on Steve Jobs, and some vague complaints about "going off the rails".

It's possible to export from both iTunes and iPhoto, and probably not particularly harder than it would be to export from a similar application for Linux.

edit: gender.

[+] iheartmemcache|13 years ago|reply
I think the whole point of OS X is for it to be user-friendly enough for people to not have to deal the nitty-gritty underpinnings of Linux. I don't mind getting close to the metal since I'm a software engineer née systems guy (wasted high-school youth? pff). In fact my primary dev box is Arch/emacs/awesome so needless to say I spend a fair amount of time in my dotfiles and editing scripts.

I'm not entirely informed as to the details of the export procedure. But I think it's a fair expectation for an OS X user to not to deal with all of the nitty-gritty details of Linux. Saying "its as easy to do in OS X as it is in Linux" isn't really a fair defense.

[+] S_A_P|13 years ago|reply
I think that the mention of "post Steve" jitters is largely false. OSX has never been perfect and has always had quirks. iTunes has never been a flawless interface and missteps happened while Steve was there (mobile me, etc). People seem to be misremembering apple as being perfect while Steve was there. For the most part, the people that make macs/iPhones, etc are the same as when Steve was there. Sure Steve was a great inspirer of polish and set the bar high, but he didn't create these things. Apple hasn't gone to shit since be died. I'm not even sure you could really say their trajectory has changed since he left. She seems like she gets bored with tech after a while, and she just wants to change so she is constructing a reason to switch.
[+] conroe64|13 years ago|reply
It had me until she wrote (when comparing to iOS) " Android is obviously out of the question since it's just a different flavor of the same garbage". How can an opensource OS be just another flavor of the entirely closed and walled off iPhone?
[+] rachelbythebay|13 years ago|reply
iOS: sell your soul to Apple.

Android: sell your soul to Google.

The thing is, I already did the second one to a far greater degree than most people ever do. I'm not about to repeat it.

[+] comex|13 years ago|reply
natermer, FYI, your comment is marked dead.
[+] webwielder|13 years ago|reply
I would be able to stomach this vague, disjointed rant if it had a different title, something like "I am experiencing minor inconveniences as a result of wanting to switch computing platforms".
[+] ishansharma|13 years ago|reply
But why would she want to switch? Some of the best code editors are there for the Mac. Why fix it if it is not broken?
[+] helmut_hed|13 years ago|reply
IMO she did a good job of capturing the Linux vs. proprietary system tensions a technically sophisticated user might experience. I've had (and have) similar problems myself.
[+] stevejb|13 years ago|reply
The concluding sentence, "I'm not looking forward to the next couple of years in tech.", strikes me as incredibly odd. The technologies and software that we have available, whether you use Linux, OSX, or Windows, or anything else, has more potential than ever before. It seems like something to be excited about.
[+] johnminter|13 years ago|reply
Perhaps because she realizes how much work it will be for her. If one uses many non-standard applications, changing platforms or even a clean install of an OS - Win, Mac, or Linux takes a lot of effort before one can get back to the productive work one bought the system to do. That is complicated by interoperability with auxiliary devices. Choice can be great but often comes with consequences that can be costly. Hmmm - isn't that really the message of Rachel's rant...
[+] ricardobeat|13 years ago|reply
So she never actually used the MacBook for development yet says it "wasn't cutting it"? What specifically was missing that you can only get on Linux?

She also paints the consumption-only device picture, yet it has nothing to do with the machine, only herself; that and the post-steve thing makes it look like she's just regurgitating the stereotypical anti-Apple ideas.

[+] trotsky|13 years ago|reply
Sometimes when you're down everything looks like a huge mountain to climb. I'm all for relinuxing! The itunes is just a tree of mp3's now, so it'll be super easy to import into whatever. Best way to take control of your phone (no mater the brand) is to jailbreak it. Poof, your mortgage is paid off.
[+] joshlane4|13 years ago|reply
I agree with the author.

I resisted Apple products for a long time for the same reason. As someone who was brought up with a command line OS and a basic knowledge of file structure I hate how Apple "tries" to take this away from their users.

I say try. I bought a MBP in 2009 because I loved the physical machine (aluminum unibody). With time I was able to use the OS without it controlling me. All of my music is ripped on EAC in MP3 VBR format. I add the folders to iTunes and do not allow it to "organize" the folders for me. I do not use iPhoto because of the way it treats the files. I maintain my own file structure. I can see how this would frustrate a lot of people. I put up with it because I think it's the best combination of hardware and software available at this time.

[+] derefr|13 years ago|reply
> All of my music is ripped on EAC in MP3 VBR format.

Why exactly? MP4 (M4A) is a less patent-encumbered format, and also has higher sound quality for the same filesize, and still plays on everything (except, I guess, decade-old MP3 players.) I can understand not wanting to use DRMed/fingerprinted songs downloaded from iTMS, but the file format itself is just better. Or are you one of those people who sticks to using RARs now that 7zip/libxz exists?

[+] javajosh|13 years ago|reply
Hi Rachel. What timing. Just yesterday I realized what I call the "primordial criticism":

    Good products get used.
    Usage creates dependency.
    Dependency is bad.
    Therefore, good products are bad.
Since bad products are bad, and good products are bad, all products are bad! You have just plugged in OSX into the syllogism.

But the syllogism results in a contradiction. So one of our assertions is wrong. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide which it is.

P.S. use Picasa on OSX, not iPhoto. And iTunes does indeed suck and I don't understand why someone hasn't written a replacement for it that fits the Sparrow:Mail==X:iPhoto equation. Perhaps I'll take a crack at it.

[+] webwielder|13 years ago|reply
>And iTunes does indeed suck and I don't understand why someone hasn't written a replacement for it that fits the Sparrow:Mail==X:iPhoto equation. Perhaps I'll take a crack at it.

I don't think iTunes sucks, but someone has solved the equation you mentioned. It's called Enqueue: http://www.enqueueapp.com

[+] rachelbythebay|13 years ago|reply
They were fine. They changed.

You can't not upgrade, either, since then you're subject to security holes and other anomalies as the upstream provider decides to leave you behind. My original iPad had this happen to it last year. My Mac will follow soon, I'm sure.

[+] matwood|13 years ago|reply
But, I'm stuck. All of my music is in iTunes, having been re-imported from the original CDs over a period of time. I can just re-rip all of it on my Linux box, but that's going to suck. Or, I can try to grovel around in their grungy database and try to make sense of it and "export" things, but I'm sure that will be even worse.

I'm confused about this line. I ripped all of my CDs to AAC using iTunes over the years and recently upped all of it to Google Music without any issue.

Oddly enough, the only format that has ever given me any problem with interoperability has been OGG.

[+] ybaumes|13 years ago|reply
This post would constitute a good/constructive reply to the latter article : 25 Years to Mac - How Ubuntu Pushed Me Away from the PC[1]

[1][http://randomdrake.com/2013/02/23/25-years-to-mac-how-ubuntu...]

[+] rachelbythebay|13 years ago|reply
Based on that article, I think Ubuntu probably would push me away from the PC, too. I used a variant called "Goobuntu" (guess where...) during my tenure at one particular company, and it was a mixed bag. I'm not sure how much was due to Ubuntu itself and how much was from the local meddling, but it was wonky in ways my Linux boxes normally aren't.

Put it this way - my machine at work was some beastly multi-proc Pentium 4 something or other, and my machine at home was some random gunk I put together using old parts from Micro Center. It was so old, I had to special order the CPU online because nobody in town still had them in stock. I live in the valley, and could drive to AMD in under 15 minutes. That's just nuts.

Still, my machine at home was far more responsive than my workstation ever was. There were tons of weird glitchy times where it would just sit there and lag for no apparent reason. I didn't even get the worst of it, since I ran a minimal window manager. People who went for the full-on "desktop environment" (KDE? GNOME? whatever it was on that distribution, I don't know) had even more anomalies.

When I hit my hotkey to pop open an X terminal and don't get my shell prompt in a blink of an eye, something is very wrong.

Edit: forgot something. My home machine was faster over my cable modem + ssh tunnel to work than my work machine was sitting on the corp gigabit Ethernet. Think about that.

[+] itistoday2|13 years ago|reply
HN... why are you upvoting this to #1...? I say HN "is going downhill". There's so very little substance here.
[+] step3|13 years ago|reply
So if there's not any good software for exporting iTunes and iPhoto data, sounds like a great opportunity to write something you can sell for $10 a pop.

I'm pretty sure there are already some decent options, though, especially for a programmer.

Regarding the commentary on the phone, it doesn't sound like the complaint is specific to Apple. The author categorically lists every major type of phone and dismisses them all.

There comes a point where it's useless to talk about what you don't like, and figure out what you do like. I take all of these "I'm going to start carrying around a regular phone, a regular camera, a Fodor's guide to the city I live in, a compass, a map, a notebook, a pen, and a gameboy" posts with a grain of salt.