I can't claim to have followed the LV fiasco on HN in all of its detail, but the parts I saw were mostly respectful and pretty well balanced. The "Designer News sucks" post was not, but that particular battlefield is a distraction. The main thing is still the Flat UI debacle, without which none of this would have happened.
Is Flat UI a ripoff? Yes, sure, and they come across as more than a bit sleazy. But are they in clear violation of LV's copyright? Absolutely not. In design as well as in pretty much every other human endeavor, all things are derivative. That's a core truth about technology and civilization in general. The Flat UI dude did not straight-up copy LV's stuff though. Still, he re-implemented it and he deserves to be called out for it. He should at least have given LV some credit for inspiring him.
That's where it ends though. The rest is all on LV. That DMCA abuse was stupid and unnecessary. Sure, you can blame HN for making that observation but that doesn't change the fact that it's not the observers fault you screwed up. Failing to admit that (and apparently making DMCA jokes on Twitter in bad taste) only serves to emphasize why people are upset with you.
LV, you used a bad law in questionable circumstances to shut up something that was no threat to you. Then you doubled down, smugly and with not a small amount of self-righteousness, when people called you out on your ethics.
The saddest part of this is that you could have easily turned this into an ad for your stuff. If you simply had come out and graciously acknowledged the similarities between Flat UI and your icons, people would have sided with you. Your implicit counter-argument that it doesn't matter if you're acting badly as long as it's the other guy who broke the law is interesting, but it's also far from certain things will actually turn out this way in a court of law.
This was a failure on many, many levels. Doubling down on bullying while at the same time crying "not fair!" is just one of them.
If you're using words like "asshole," you are definitely adding fuel to the fire. I sense you know this. In general, your argument strikes me as a "Tu Quoque:" They are bullies, so it's wrong for them to point out when we are mean.
You then go on for a while about what makes them bullies, all of which is tangential to whether or not HN is mean.
I caution against this kind of rhetoric. It leads to a place where the rule is, "It's ok to be mean to people we don't like, for whatever reason."
Civility is a form of justice. It should be extended to those we respect but also to those we don't respect. Extending justice to the guilty is part of what makes a nation just. Extending civility to those we disrespect is what makes a community civil.
Wait what did this have to do with LV or the DMCA takedown notice? Isn't design news just a hacker news clone aimed at designers? I would assume this is just a community post. Either way you're comment is still completely off topic.
I thinking that is stupid to make DMCA takedown for this - http://designmodo.com/flat-free/ just check layervault site :)
the difference is more that visible...
I think that Flat UI is 95% unique, and is very well.
This post is completely independent from the LayerVault/Flat UI fiasco. This is a post by one of Designer News' posters about a post on HN. Designer News happens to be hosted by LayerVault and they have as much to do with this post as YCombinator has to do with a "Tell HN: Designer News sucks" post on here.
While I can appreciate the sentiment of being friendly, it's something I strive to do, what this post actually does to accomplish it is nothing. It's a fairly sweeping generalization of a community, and to top it off you try to admonish the naysayers with "don't be stupid," and accusations of arrogance. It comes off as petty with low effort.
If you want people to be more positive, that's admirable. That being said, this post accomplishes nothing to encourage people to be more friendly.
...and this kind of comment is probably what was being called out. Its typical of HN comments - it deconstructs what was going on, and ranks it.
A sensitive person (read: designer) would call it mean. I think its just a different mode of discourse. It is not sweet or kind; it just is. No more mean than a compiler error message.
Don't be mean, find a more positive and constructive output for your feelings instead - like a passive-aggressive, poorly disguised excuse for bashing another community.
What you have just done is not an actual defense of your community and its behavior. It is an attack on the OP. the OPs conduct has no bearing on the justifications and motivation of your conduct.
We should all endeavor to be more humane to others, and I'm sad to see a comment like this leaning towards a persecution complex more than an understanding of others.
Here is the thing about Hacker News Comment Threads - They are precisely as mean as the subject/object allows.
HN Commentators take pleasure in dissections (and even more pleasure in dissecting those dissections). That can be tough for people, especially if they submitted their content because they wanted feel-good feedback or some kind of community exchange.
It is very easy to burn your fingers around here - one slip of technical details, get one fact of history wrong and you will be told. Ruthlessly and again and again. If anything at all about your content is distracting, that will be what users latch onto.
Of course it's kind of bad, of course people are often dismissive because of trivial bits to the point where they actively obstruct themselves of interesting discoveries.
But I value it's Zen-like quality. I know that if I ever were to submit something to HN, should it find its way to the frontpage, I would, definitely find out every single flaw about it. Quickly.
From a technical perspective, that is kind of neat. From a social perspective, it's about as emphatic as a meat cleaver.
I understand your opinion but I think that this won't change soon. This site is used by a lot of technical people and by definition their behavior tend to be like what you described above.
I don't think people are intentionally trying to be mean, but sometimes it appears that way to others. Generally this site is full of smart people with strong opinions, and for the most part that's a good thing that drives some interesting discussion.
Unfortunately, smart people with an opinion sometimes have a problem seeing the other side of the coin, and tend to see their point of view as the only right one.
A good example is yesterdays 'PHP is the right tool for the job' post.(http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5337498) The authors point that PHP is a great tool for getting something up and running quickly without having a lot of knowledge of servers and software was spot on, but he got a lot of hate from the HN community. As a bad programmer (programming is not what I do, I've only learned it to be a better manager, strategist and sparring partner) I can tell you that PHP is by far the easiest thing to get up and running for a fool like me. Yet noone seemed to accept this fact, and came up with a whole lot of 'ruby is just as easy, you just need to install [something I've never heard of, and probably wouldn't understand], or in python you just run [stuff I don't know] on the command line [which I haven't got a clue how works] and you're good to go.
These comments weren't meant to be mean, but from my perspective they were, because I'm at a very different skill level than the peolpe making the comments. They totally missed the point that PHP works for a lot of people because Ithey have no idea how a command line works, don't know how to edit configuration files, and don't care.
The problem isn't that people are intentionally mean, it's that some people are so knowledgeable in their area of expertise that they have problems seeing how it could be hard for others, and thus end up making remarks that seem mean, but really aren't meant to be.
I bet a lot of people on HN still don't see why PHP is so popular, even though the answer is unbelievable obvious. To me.
After spending a non-trivial amount of time on HN and various other resources for years, people are definitely intentionally being mean. Not all of them, but a significant amount of people posting harsh comments could do it in a much more constructive way, but that's not what they want. They want to be mean. Sucks for discourse.
This is tangential to your very relevant comment, but FYI, a command line is somewhere you type a command (a 'line of code') and it executes as if it was in the middle of a running program.
Very useful when you want to see or confirm how somethig works. Type it and press 'Enter'. It comes with the python installation, and it's commonly called Interactive Interpreter.
What would another framework need to do to truly be able to compete with PHP for people like yourself? As far as I know, you still have to install something to get PHP to run, or are you talking about hosted solutions?
Ignorance of the alternatives. Ignorance of its drawbacks. Ignorance of its outright dangerous flaws. Ignorance of the horrible practices it encourages. Ignorance of the PHP community's ignorance.
Those are among the reasons many of us speak out loudly against PHP, and against similarly flawed languages, like JavaScript.
Civility does not work when ignorance is at play, and when the consequences of inaction can be severe.
Hmmm ... if I offer what I believe as a valid criticism (constructively) but it offends someone, they're going to tend to think of me as mean regardless of my intention.
But I also think you can offer both compliments and criticism respectfully ... and I think that may be what the writer really wants. What value would there be to a "Show HN" if all you got were platitudes?
As an aside, I quit swearing (completely) when I was 18 or so, because I realized that I knew enough language to articulate my feelings. It's led to people assuming I only have nice things to say when the reality is that I can be (I think) more scathing (in other words, the tone of what you say is important too ... especially on the Internet).
* Hmmm ... if I offer what I believe as a valid criticism (constructively) but it offends someone, they're going to tend to think of me as mean regardless of my intention.*
Just because something offends someone else does not force that person to think of you as "mean". I don't buy into that argument at all. I can be offended but think "That guy's just a jerk - that's the way he is" (jerk != mean). Or I can choose to think, "He maybe was a bit harsh in how he said it, but ultimately his point is correct."
You aren't "wrong" in your other ideas, but I just don't agree that offending someone causes them to think you are mean.
A few years back, I took the second semester of a photography class with a new instructor. The first semester we had critique sessions, but people were so supportive it was hard to see where I needed to improve. The new instructor changed that in a hurry by forbidding the words 'What I like about your photo...' or the equivalent. We had to say what we didn't like. He said every photo can be improved. It really opened my eyes to the defects in my photos, and I got better in a hurry. Some of the other photographers were very talented, and had great photos from the start. Their photos improved even quicker.
I try to look at the community on Hacker News like that. There are a lot of very talented people here, and very busy. It seems most people here don't want to waste time to writing or hearing what's good about something they wrote or did. They've gone beyond the stage where they need hand-holding. People are working on the edge and they want to get better, whatever that means to them, and are willing to endure some criticism to get there.
Postscript: I love the fact you almost never see a TL;DR attitude on HN.
Asking someone not to be mean is passive-aggressive bullying.
If someone is being mean, you confront the behavior it by:
1. Tell them you don't like their tone and that it isn't constructive. Make sure you criticize the behavior, not the person.
2. Ask them if they want to share their point of view instead of trashing someone else.
3. Empathize with their point of
view (the Internet makes this really hard)
If none of the above works, ignore the person (the Internet makes it very easy to not make other people's feelings your problem). Not the adult thing to do, but silence is a signal to trolls that they aren't going to be fed any time soon.
Unfortunately this seems to be the way the world is working. People who like what you did do not speak up. People wo do not like it complain as loud as possible. Maybe it's because complaining is more likely to lead to responses. Or because when you have a negative feeling about something you feel more urge to speak up.
I know this should not necessarily result in mean complaints, but often it does. So, what can we do against it? Simply ignore mean comments? Take care to write better comments? Or should we just shut up when we have nothing to say?
I think mean comments, such as you get on Hacker News often have a grain of truth to them. That such emotion is attached to that grain of truth suggests that someone likes your idea or cares enough about your product or the area you're focussing on that it's worth pursuing.
Better then to count the meanness as validation of what you're working on and to extract the grain of truth as constructive criticism suggesting how you can improve.
If you go and remove someones work for no damn reason and I criticize you, that makes me mean; there is absolutely no logic in your post.
The whole post was idiotic and was trying to deflect the fact that they filed a DMCA takedown when there was no evidence that the work (flatUI) belongs to them.
This is not the Layervault blog, it‘s someone posting on Designer News, a Hacker News inspired discussion community launched by Layervault.
(Of course, the confusion is deliberate, I imagine they hope that the association with a vibrant community will work well for Layervault and vice versa, like in Y combinator <-> Hacker News)
Ironically, this post perfectly fits the what the submitter is talking about since you don't even have your facts right. The submission appears to be as affiliated with Layervault as any HN submission is affiliated with YC (that is, not at all).
Asking somebody not to be mean seems reasonable but he only gets mean after he has already "lost it". He then unfailingly perceives the other guy as the mean one and himself as the victim. If he had the self-awareness necessary to monitor his emotional state then he would not become mean in the first place.
Combine this with the fact that most people come to news sites for validation rather than enlightenment and one can expect mean comments to grow in proportion to the popularity of the site
Sometimes the truth hurts. I think we're all mature enough to handle that. And I personally prefer when people are blunt/honest instead of sugar coating everything or refusing to state their opinion because they're afraid it will offend. There's nothing more annoying than someone who's too weak to speak up and tell the truth -- they can do just as much harm as the people who are mean.
For what it's worth, I just re-read the top 5 comments on the post he's referring to and couldn't find a single one that was mean. Negative, sure, but mean and negative are entirely different things.
> And why are you making the arrogant assumptions that we want to invest our time and energy in reading your comment too?
Well if that's not the definition of irony right there...
Reminds me of I saw a documentary that followed students through med school. One of them was a former mechanic (not to mention a child prodigy and a biker- interesting guy) but he disliked the approach of med school where he would give a wrong diagnosis and his instructors would always tip toe around everyone's feelings and preface criticism with things like 'It's really interesting how you came to that conclusion..." but when he was a mechanic, someone would just say "You're doing it wrong - do it this way." And that's all he wanted - to be told if he was doing something wrong and how to do it right, but there was always this buffer of bullshit politeness in med school.
Ironically this article describes what I started feeling while reading it:
I was wondering myself, why? Why consume time, energy to write something that adds no value whatsoever. Why consuming that little amount of electricity required for you to type and that little amount of storage required to host your (destructive) boring comment. And why are you making the arrogant assumptions that we want to invest our time and energy in reading your comment too?"
Out of curiosity, where's the discussion the OP is talking about?
I do think meanness is worth calling out, FWIW, though in my experience HN discussions are better than most I see online (though far from faultless, of course).
...which in turn gives me faith that when there really are unduly mean discussions, someone calling them out can actually improve things (whereas I imagine an article calling out meanness on /. or similar and can't imagine who would even read it).
I think he is talking about the discussion[1] about the new facebook news feed.
This is not an isolated instance, however. For some reason people who reply seem to always look at things from the worst prespective possible. Some are valid concerns, others not so much but you end up with a (very) pessimistic view of things if you consider only opinions expressed on HN. It makes me feel a bit sad and down.
I think this happens because people who like the post, product, etc don't know how to express appreciation in a meaningul way. Maybe it is easier to pinpoint specific things that you don't like than to be specific about a product you like. You get that overall feeling that it is an improvement but cannot easily pinpoint all the reasons why.
I also have faith that things can improve if people, instead of only writing about specific things that they don't like, take some time to also write about the small things that often go unnoticed but make great products great.
I've never seen much ad hominem or meanness in the comments here. In fact, I think this place is awfully civil. People here have no problem calling one another out on something that is incorrect or dubious, and I like that. I'd rather a spade is called a spade than a bunch of people skirting around the issue in the name of politeness.
The worst part of HN and the ecosystem isn't being mean, its people reverting to a meta discussion about how useless and silly HN is when they don't have a response to valid criticism or argument.
That's what drove me off Daily Kos five years ago. Meta responses to meta responses to petty bullshit. The endless complaining was invariably far worse than the original issue, and it never resolved anything.
You can't change the behavior of a bunch of strangers with simple argument. If that's your goal, you need to actually do something more substantive.
I think people defend the things they are invested in. For example if you have bought Macs and invested time in learning to use OS X, you are invested in Macs and will defend them against competition. It is not just about personal preferences, but about the value of your investment. If nobody uses Macs anymore, your investment in Apple knowledge loses a lot of value.
Likewise, if you have invested in building a Facebook network, you have an interest in Facebook remaining useful to you. It's more than just personal likes and dislikes, it's long term investing.
What's worse than people "wasting electricity" making ostensibly mean comments? I know. It's writing an entire blog post about it!
The anti-dote, usually, for a "Don't be mean ..." request is "Don't take it personally".
To defend HN comments ... The comments are the reason why I, and I'm sure many, come here to read. Most times HN comments far out-value the original articles posted.
I tried to register on DN but it is invite only. I can understand that but they don't even have a "Contact us" link so I can ask how to get an invite or ask any question for that matter.
I remember reading the HTML Hell page:
http://catb.org/esr/html-hell.html
It is really annoying when someone (or groups of people) wish to be heard (that is the reason they are on a publicly available site right?) but they don't give a damn about their visitors' opinions.
I can't call a site like that friendly either. Correct me if my point of view is flawed.
In terms of mean comments, I think that's just a way of people to express themselves in something they don't agree in order to seek some attention. A person who has high amount of knowledge in different areas it does not matter what newbies use and probably they even encourage them with positive opinion because they don't need an approval from other members of the community.
The main problem is that every community gets biased toward certain trend or way of thinking and they suppress opinions against them. HN is less biased in this sense but still that exist.
[+] [-] Udo|13 years ago|reply
Is Flat UI a ripoff? Yes, sure, and they come across as more than a bit sleazy. But are they in clear violation of LV's copyright? Absolutely not. In design as well as in pretty much every other human endeavor, all things are derivative. That's a core truth about technology and civilization in general. The Flat UI dude did not straight-up copy LV's stuff though. Still, he re-implemented it and he deserves to be called out for it. He should at least have given LV some credit for inspiring him.
That's where it ends though. The rest is all on LV. That DMCA abuse was stupid and unnecessary. Sure, you can blame HN for making that observation but that doesn't change the fact that it's not the observers fault you screwed up. Failing to admit that (and apparently making DMCA jokes on Twitter in bad taste) only serves to emphasize why people are upset with you.
LV, you used a bad law in questionable circumstances to shut up something that was no threat to you. Then you doubled down, smugly and with not a small amount of self-righteousness, when people called you out on your ethics.
The saddest part of this is that you could have easily turned this into an ad for your stuff. If you simply had come out and graciously acknowledged the similarities between Flat UI and your icons, people would have sided with you. Your implicit counter-argument that it doesn't matter if you're acting badly as long as it's the other guy who broke the law is interesting, but it's also far from certain things will actually turn out this way in a court of law.
This was a failure on many, many levels. Doubling down on bullying while at the same time crying "not fair!" is just one of them.
[+] [-] raganwald|13 years ago|reply
You then go on for a while about what makes them bullies, all of which is tangential to whether or not HN is mean.
I caution against this kind of rhetoric. It leads to a place where the rule is, "It's ok to be mean to people we don't like, for whatever reason."
Civility is a form of justice. It should be extended to those we respect but also to those we don't respect. Extending justice to the guilty is part of what makes a nation just. Extending civility to those we disrespect is what makes a community civil.
[+] [-] lucisferre|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SmeelBe|13 years ago|reply
I think that Flat UI is 95% unique, and is very well.
say no DMCA ABUSE!
[+] [-] cooldeal|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carlisle_|13 years ago|reply
If you want people to be more positive, that's admirable. That being said, this post accomplishes nothing to encourage people to be more friendly.
[+] [-] JoeAltmaier|13 years ago|reply
A sensitive person (read: designer) would call it mean. I think its just a different mode of discourse. It is not sweet or kind; it just is. No more mean than a compiler error message.
[+] [-] jrajav|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] knowtheory|13 years ago|reply
We should all endeavor to be more humane to others, and I'm sad to see a comment like this leaning towards a persecution complex more than an understanding of others.
[+] [-] skore|13 years ago|reply
HN Commentators take pleasure in dissections (and even more pleasure in dissecting those dissections). That can be tough for people, especially if they submitted their content because they wanted feel-good feedback or some kind of community exchange.
It is very easy to burn your fingers around here - one slip of technical details, get one fact of history wrong and you will be told. Ruthlessly and again and again. If anything at all about your content is distracting, that will be what users latch onto.
Of course it's kind of bad, of course people are often dismissive because of trivial bits to the point where they actively obstruct themselves of interesting discoveries.
But I value it's Zen-like quality. I know that if I ever were to submit something to HN, should it find its way to the frontpage, I would, definitely find out every single flaw about it. Quickly.
From a technical perspective, that is kind of neat. From a social perspective, it's about as emphatic as a meat cleaver.
[+] [-] edem|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mixmax|13 years ago|reply
Unfortunately, smart people with an opinion sometimes have a problem seeing the other side of the coin, and tend to see their point of view as the only right one.
A good example is yesterdays 'PHP is the right tool for the job' post.(http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5337498) The authors point that PHP is a great tool for getting something up and running quickly without having a lot of knowledge of servers and software was spot on, but he got a lot of hate from the HN community. As a bad programmer (programming is not what I do, I've only learned it to be a better manager, strategist and sparring partner) I can tell you that PHP is by far the easiest thing to get up and running for a fool like me. Yet noone seemed to accept this fact, and came up with a whole lot of 'ruby is just as easy, you just need to install [something I've never heard of, and probably wouldn't understand], or in python you just run [stuff I don't know] on the command line [which I haven't got a clue how works] and you're good to go.
These comments weren't meant to be mean, but from my perspective they were, because I'm at a very different skill level than the peolpe making the comments. They totally missed the point that PHP works for a lot of people because Ithey have no idea how a command line works, don't know how to edit configuration files, and don't care.
The problem isn't that people are intentionally mean, it's that some people are so knowledgeable in their area of expertise that they have problems seeing how it could be hard for others, and thus end up making remarks that seem mean, but really aren't meant to be.
I bet a lot of people on HN still don't see why PHP is so popular, even though the answer is unbelievable obvious. To me.
[+] [-] nicholassmith|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emiliobumachar|13 years ago|reply
Very useful when you want to see or confirm how somethig works. Type it and press 'Enter'. It comes with the python installation, and it's commonly called Interactive Interpreter.
[+] [-] flyinRyan|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PommeDeTerre|13 years ago|reply
Ignorance of the alternatives. Ignorance of its drawbacks. Ignorance of its outright dangerous flaws. Ignorance of the horrible practices it encourages. Ignorance of the PHP community's ignorance.
Those are among the reasons many of us speak out loudly against PHP, and against similarly flawed languages, like JavaScript.
Civility does not work when ignorance is at play, and when the consequences of inaction can be severe.
[+] [-] smoyer|13 years ago|reply
But I also think you can offer both compliments and criticism respectfully ... and I think that may be what the writer really wants. What value would there be to a "Show HN" if all you got were platitudes?
As an aside, I quit swearing (completely) when I was 18 or so, because I realized that I knew enough language to articulate my feelings. It's led to people assuming I only have nice things to say when the reality is that I can be (I think) more scathing (in other words, the tone of what you say is important too ... especially on the Internet).
[+] [-] ScottWhigham|13 years ago|reply
Just because something offends someone else does not force that person to think of you as "mean". I don't buy into that argument at all. I can be offended but think "That guy's just a jerk - that's the way he is" (jerk != mean). Or I can choose to think, "He maybe was a bit harsh in how he said it, but ultimately his point is correct."
You aren't "wrong" in your other ideas, but I just don't agree that offending someone causes them to think you are mean.
[+] [-] davidroberts|13 years ago|reply
I try to look at the community on Hacker News like that. There are a lot of very talented people here, and very busy. It seems most people here don't want to waste time to writing or hearing what's good about something they wrote or did. They've gone beyond the stage where they need hand-holding. People are working on the edge and they want to get better, whatever that means to them, and are willing to endure some criticism to get there.
Postscript: I love the fact you almost never see a TL;DR attitude on HN.
[+] [-] leothekim|13 years ago|reply
If someone is being mean, you confront the behavior it by:
1. Tell them you don't like their tone and that it isn't constructive. Make sure you criticize the behavior, not the person.
2. Ask them if they want to share their point of view instead of trashing someone else.
3. Empathize with their point of view (the Internet makes this really hard)
If none of the above works, ignore the person (the Internet makes it very easy to not make other people's feelings your problem). Not the adult thing to do, but silence is a signal to trolls that they aren't going to be fed any time soon.
[+] [-] struppi|13 years ago|reply
I know this should not necessarily result in mean complaints, but often it does. So, what can we do against it? Simply ignore mean comments? Take care to write better comments? Or should we just shut up when we have nothing to say?
[+] [-] bengillies|13 years ago|reply
Better then to count the meanness as validation of what you're working on and to extract the grain of truth as constructive criticism suggesting how you can improve.
[+] [-] C1D|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] schrijver|13 years ago|reply
(Of course, the confusion is deliberate, I imagine they hope that the association with a vibrant community will work well for Layervault and vice versa, like in Y combinator <-> Hacker News)
[+] [-] argonaut|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chimpinee|13 years ago|reply
Combine this with the fact that most people come to news sites for validation rather than enlightenment and one can expect mean comments to grow in proportion to the popularity of the site
[+] [-] Irregardless|13 years ago|reply
For what it's worth, I just re-read the top 5 comments on the post he's referring to and couldn't find a single one that was mean. Negative, sure, but mean and negative are entirely different things.
> And why are you making the arrogant assumptions that we want to invest our time and energy in reading your comment too?
Well if that's not the definition of irony right there...
[+] [-] JoCoLa|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] onze|13 years ago|reply
I was wondering myself, why? Why consume time, energy to write something that adds no value whatsoever. Why consuming that little amount of electricity required for you to type and that little amount of storage required to host your (destructive) boring comment. And why are you making the arrogant assumptions that we want to invest our time and energy in reading your comment too?"
[+] [-] jtheory|13 years ago|reply
I do think meanness is worth calling out, FWIW, though in my experience HN discussions are better than most I see online (though far from faultless, of course).
...which in turn gives me faith that when there really are unduly mean discussions, someone calling them out can actually improve things (whereas I imagine an article calling out meanness on /. or similar and can't imagine who would even read it).
[+] [-] vicbrooker|13 years ago|reply
This was close to the top of the front page on HN, so I'm fairly confident that they're talking about this:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5339287
Nothing too suss in there from what I read, and most of the top comments are still the same as when the Design News post was made.
If you can't be bothered reading, topics included:
- Facebook steals from Google+. Google+ steals from Facebook.
- People overuse certain adjectives when describing products.
- The impact that new FB design has on advertising, particularly that ads can now take up ~30% screen space
...I don't see where the meanness is
[+] [-] thaumaturgy|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Vieira|13 years ago|reply
This is not an isolated instance, however. For some reason people who reply seem to always look at things from the worst prespective possible. Some are valid concerns, others not so much but you end up with a (very) pessimistic view of things if you consider only opinions expressed on HN. It makes me feel a bit sad and down.
I think this happens because people who like the post, product, etc don't know how to express appreciation in a meaningul way. Maybe it is easier to pinpoint specific things that you don't like than to be specific about a product you like. You get that overall feeling that it is an improvement but cannot easily pinpoint all the reasons why.
I also have faith that things can improve if people, instead of only writing about specific things that they don't like, take some time to also write about the small things that often go unnoticed but make great products great.
[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5339287
[+] [-] jamestc|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nikcub|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TillE|13 years ago|reply
You can't change the behavior of a bunch of strangers with simple argument. If that's your goal, you need to actually do something more substantive.
[+] [-] manmal|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tichy|13 years ago|reply
Likewise, if you have invested in building a Facebook network, you have an interest in Facebook remaining useful to you. It's more than just personal likes and dislikes, it's long term investing.
[+] [-] ak39|13 years ago|reply
The anti-dote, usually, for a "Don't be mean ..." request is "Don't take it personally".
To defend HN comments ... The comments are the reason why I, and I'm sure many, come here to read. Most times HN comments far out-value the original articles posted.
[+] [-] edem|13 years ago|reply
I remember reading the HTML Hell page: http://catb.org/esr/html-hell.html It is really annoying when someone (or groups of people) wish to be heard (that is the reason they are on a publicly available site right?) but they don't give a damn about their visitors' opinions.
I can't call a site like that friendly either. Correct me if my point of view is flawed.
[+] [-] nasir|13 years ago|reply
The main problem is that every community gets biased toward certain trend or way of thinking and they suppress opinions against them. HN is less biased in this sense but still that exist.