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Twitter granted patent on Twitter-like services

119 points| RobAley | 13 years ago |patft.uspto.gov | reply

72 comments

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[+] Arjuna|13 years ago|reply
I realize that we all have strong opinions about the topic of software patents, but in an effort to radiate more light and less heat, I think it is important to understand the official Twitter position on this topic as well.

Introducing the Innovator's Patent Agreement

Note: Emphasis is mine.

"We will implement the IPA later this year, and it will apply to all patents issued to our engineers, both past and present." [1]

"The Innovators Patent Agreement (IPA) is a new way to do patent assignment that keeps control in the hands of engineers and designers. It is a commitment from a company to its employees that patents can only be used for defensive purposes. The company will not use the patents in offensive litigation without the permission of the inventors. This control flows with the patents, so if the company sells the patents to others, the assignee can only use the patents as the inventor intended." [2]

[1] http://engineering.twitter.com/2012/04/introducing-innovator...

[2] https://github.com/twitter/innovators-patent-agreement

[+] alexkus|13 years ago|reply
> The company will not use the patents in offensive litigation without the permission of the inventors.

Now look at the names on the patent in question. Do you think they'll oppose offensive litigation specific to this patent?

[+] RobAley|13 years ago|reply
It's important to note that the names on the patent are Jack Dorsey and Chris "Biz" Stone, not the ordinary staff/engineers at Twitter, at which the IPA was aimed.

Also note that nothing in the IPA prevents the use of patents offensively if the named inventors agree.

In effect, the IPA isn't relevant to this patent, as the named inventors haven't (and probably won't) make a commitment not to use it to protect their business/personal interests.

[+] cacois|13 years ago|reply
And how do they plan on enforcing that?
[+] mmanfrin|13 years ago|reply
Because Twitter is a company whose word is trustable?
[+] mikecane|13 years ago|reply
I haven't read the patent. But it seems to me that prior art would be CompuServe's CB Simulator -- from the early 1980s. That's what I thought of when I first encountered Twitter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cb_simulator
[+] TallGuyShort|13 years ago|reply
>> TennesseeBunny was dialed in with a laptop and a 2400 baud modem and broadcast the event play by play

And there we have the invention of live-tweeting an event!

[+] panacea|13 years ago|reply
Does 'prior art' even matter? Seems like a subjective distinction that's regularly quashed by monied interests.
[+] unknown|13 years ago|reply

[deleted]

[+] roc|13 years ago|reply
The independent claims all explicitly codify the follower/following mechanic. So if you want to show prior art, you'll have to find something where a user was subscribing to receive broadcast messages from other explicitly-defined users, as opposed to subscribing to a channel, group, mailing list, etc.

The heaps of similar methods that don't include follower/following is a good reminder of how easy it is to avoid infringing on this patent: just skip the follower/following mechanic.

[+] jacques_chester|13 years ago|reply
Do the users have to be human? Because I'd have thought most Observer pattern implementations fit the concept of "follower" / "followee".
[+] chc|13 years ago|reply
I'm not a patent lawyer or anything, but I don't think that is the important part. It looks to me like what they're really looking to patent is cross-media communication — Bob submits a tweet via the website, Chris gets it texted to his phone and Danielle sees it pop up via Growl notification from her client app.
[+] nessence|13 years ago|reply
LiveJournal doesn't route messages. It performs database queries which renders to HTML. As a result twitter will broadcast what you say to all of your followers, immediately, to their cell phones. This isn't something LiveJournal's architecture supported.
[+] jack_trades|13 years ago|reply
Is this because someone forgot to patent the cc feature of email? We've been doing similar point to multi-medium translation of messages for decades. Email to email+text pager for doctors in hospitals. Surely there's a strong prior art case that invalidates this, but this is also obvious enough that it really shouldn't get through in the first place.

I am just too thick to understand IP law.

[+] easytiger|13 years ago|reply
Or BBS, or IRC status bloomberg terminals etc etc etc.

Whole thing sucks. I'm not going to read the patent.

[+] smogzer|13 years ago|reply
If the guy that invented sms patented 140 char messages there would be no twitter. Or irc messages, or smoke signals, or X where one people sends a text message to others. Patents are a bureocratic perversion that do not acomplish any progress to humanity, they just perpetuate the bureocratic system itself.
[+] rooshdi|13 years ago|reply
Many of these humans are caught within a system which incentivizes personal interests over those of society. Those in higher power are aware of this, but too cowardly to do anything about it, sadly, and the lower amongst us are forced to at least protect themselves from a broken system. But the thing is, the more they protect themselves, the more this corrupt system becomes reinforced and innovation becomes even more endangered. We need to wake up and say enough is enough already. Do we really want this paralyzing system to dictate us and future humanity?
[+] pbnjay|13 years ago|reply
You have got to be kidding me. This just shows how broken the US patent system is for software.
[+] nessence|13 years ago|reply
The patents involves routing messages with emphasis on followers. Everything previous I'm aware of has been multicast based or address based, like email or mailing lists. Most internet and application-layer protocols are destination based. Where is a protocol that says "Route this message based on who is interested in the source."? All I find is "send this message there, based on X, or, send that message here, based on Y"; both destination based. Would be interesting to know or hear of past protocols which are more similar to twitter's patent.
[+] dexen|13 years ago|reply
Everything previous I'm aware of has been multicast based or address based, like email or mailing lists.

As others remarked, IRC is follower-based. You follow a bunch of channels by sending subscription message (JOIN #channel-name) to central authority (IRC server). The server keeps track of who follows which channel, and brokers any PRIVMSG #channel message messages to the followers, until the person does PART #channel-name or disconnects. Aside of that, a direct person-to-person mechanism exists just as well, also via the PRIVMSG command.

The USER nickname command provides, among other, list of (public) channels the named person follows, which some IRC clients use to allow user to follow the same channels.

Yes, there is a difference between an IRC channel and a singular persona, but it is not as clear-cut as it may seem on its face. On one hand, some channels are muted, and only admins, or just a single admin, can post. On the other, Twitter handles often stand for multiple persons, speaking for one organization, team etc.

* * *

As an IRC user, I am ashamed and appalled of how low our industry has fallen -- somebody applies for a patent for what (after cursory read seems to me) a copy of well-known and long-established functionality.

[+] colinshark|13 years ago|reply
Seems like LiveJournal did the "followers" thing first.
[+] mikeocool|13 years ago|reply
This is almost definitely a direct result of the recent legislation that changed patents from a 'first to invent' to 'first to file' system. Basically, Twitter had to file a patent on twitter-like services, or someone else could come along, patent it, and force Twitter to 'license' the tech.

The law went into effect on Monday.

[+] xfghpu|13 years ago|reply
It has nothing to do with the recent legislation. The patent was filed in 2008, so is under the old "first to invent" regime.
[+] jacques_chester|13 years ago|reply
That is not at all how "first to file" works. You still need to be presenting a novel invention that doesn't have prior art.

First to file drastically reduces the number and complexity of patent disputes and it improves the stability of a patent once acquired.

And there's always been a de facto paperwork requirement under first to invent anyhow, it's just that you had to keep nauseatingly detailed "inventor's logs" just in case somebody sued you. And even then you could be bankrupted in court by someone running a frivolous interference case.

First to file is a net win. That's why everyone else on Earth has been using it.

IANAL, TINLA.

[+] emelski|13 years ago|reply
Twitter's patent application was filed in 2008, so no, this is not related to the recent legislative change.
[+] polskibus|13 years ago|reply
Ridiculous, surely sth like Jabber could be shown as prior art ?
[+] scrapcode|13 years ago|reply
Does this mean I have to take down all of my Ruby on Tails Twitter-like tutorial apps?
[+] anoncow|13 years ago|reply
If you don't care about your websites(eg. Hobby projects, projects that aren't doing well) or care a lot(eg. Your site is the next facebook) approach a Patent lawyer and have your site reviewed. If he/she finds something amiss, approach twitter and ask them if they are ok with your website. If your site infringes the patent and you don't care about your site and you do this, you end up helping people understand where twitter stands on the issue of patent abuse and trolling. If you care a lot about your website and you do this, you are safeguarding your interests.

However, if you care just enough for your website(eg. Your site makes enough money to pay for itself and then some), I would advice against approaching twitter. Chances are twitters lawyers will ask you to shut your project, if you approach. And if you don't, chances are your project might be small enough and remain unharmed(security by obscurity?) if twitter goes a-trolling.

[+] JohnLBevan|13 years ago|reply
How did Twitter get the patent on BizTalk? The description sounds much more like BizTalk than Twitter to me.
[+] jacques_chester|13 years ago|reply
I'm the in the middle of patenting an actual protocol (unrelated). In case you're wondering, yes: patentese is always vague and difficult to follow. I wrote a few thousand words to describe my protocol to the level you'd find in an RFC, and it blows out to tens of thousands of words of dense verbiage and a bunch of diagrams with hundreds of reference numbers.
[+] just2n|13 years ago|reply
There is prior art for this. I've seen forums that permit turning on notices for all posts by specific users, which in itself looks to satisfy every claim, since they also include a "what's new" feed which is basically just a dumping of posts anywhere on the site into 1 place. They behave like a miniature twitter in that regard.

IRC clients also notify the user when messages targeting them (via your handle, similar to @handle) are received, and I've seen scripts that pull comments from specific users from any open channels, and the opposite (namely blocking users) has been present in countless applications, which indicates the concept of paying special attention to a specific user isn't a new one.

On top of this, I don't feel like there's anything that's innovative at all in this patent. Since when did the innovation step stop being a requirement?

[+] pokoleo|13 years ago|reply
I read through the first claim, here's a summary I built as I went along (IANAL so I'm probably wrong).

Their first claim is the following:

A way to communicate between computers (1:many) where users can designate by computer to follow someone else.

Where users are identified by accounts where following is an account config.

Where users can be notified of messages that they are not explicitly told about (but follow).

Where another user is marked as the sender (we have their followers, so that is implicitly marked too).

Where the first user is one of the followers.

Where the first user has devices ("endpoints") that they'd like to recieve messages from (phone/etc), this patent applies to sending each message to each of the endpoints in their appropriate format.

Points 2-8 are about:

- Different ways to send the message.

- per-following subscription preferences.

- Message preferences set up in weird ways. (3. I'm not too sure on this)

- Broadcasting through an aggregator that sends data through batched messages.

- Translating messages from/to UTF-8/etc.

- Delivering messages at specific times.

- Sending URLs to messages

At a glance, claim 9 is about storing the data for a message.

Claims 10-15 are about:

- Different ways to trigger the message that this data can represent.

- Per-following subscription preferences (I'm starting to think this is Twitter group subscriptions)

- Per-following subscription preferences including time periods.

- Messages that have no explicit recipient.

- Aggregated message delivery.

- Sending URLs to messages as the message

At a glance, claim 16 is about building the system that does this.

Claims 17-22 are pretty much the same as 10-15

EDIT: Wow, I didn't realize HN uses a variant of Markdown. (Good, good)

[+] EGreg|13 years ago|reply
[+] jrajav|13 years ago|reply
At least they have... what? A shill-ish, apologetic article on Wired that doesn't offer anything except "we pinky promise not to troll"? There is still absolutely nothing stopping them from using this however they please.
[+] Kliment|13 years ago|reply
They published that AFTER filing said patent, so I don't expect they offered it retroactively to the people on this filing.
[+] Prefinem|13 years ago|reply
And people wonder why innovation is being stifled. If you create something great that works, another bigger company already has a patent on it.
[+] methehack|13 years ago|reply
Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

They are using other people's money -- given the current system, they had a fiduciary responsibility to do this, unfortunately.

Maybe the lesson is to not take other people's money, but investment really does allow grand things happen that would not happen otherwise.

Patent system is fucked and fucked corrupts absolutely. At least, that's my take away.