A gel that can stop severe bleeding instantly

[gnosis]

There are many blood stopping agents out on the market. Many of them were originally developed by/for the military in the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, and are now available to civilians.

Here's a list of some of these products:

Bleed-X, TraumaDEX - http://www.bleed-x.com/ http://www.bydezignproducts.com/bleedx.html

BloodSTOP - http://www.lifescienceplus.com/

Celox - http://www.celoxmedical.com/

HemCon - http://www.hemcon.com/

RDH (Rapid Deployment Hemostat) - http://www.surgery.uthscsa.edu/faculty/pubs/cohn-hemostat.pd...

QuickClot - http://www.quikclot.com/home.aspx

WoundSeal, BioSeal, QR Powder - http://www.biolife.com/ourproducts.html

[nhoven]

Also an oldie but goodie, a basic styptic pencil: http://www.amazon.com/Clubman-Styptic-Pencil-0-33-oz/dp/B001...

[richardlblair]

As a man who enjoys a good shave, I can tell you that clotting agents sting like a bitch

[uberuberuber]

I am a former critical care medic, and lack the scientific training to judge the merits of their claims about mechanism of action, but if history is any guide regarding ‘miracle’ products it will not live up to the manufacturers claims.

The use cases I can think of and commentary:

-Hemostasis after non-emergent ear/nose/throat procedures. -Packing of the wound + local epinephrine administration is currently used. It costs nothing, is well understood, and doesn’t have the potential for embolization or immune system interaction weirdness.

-Hemostasis of an extremity wound AFTER a tourniquet has been applied. -After a tourniquet is properly placed, the arterial flow is halted. Trauma teams have learned from military and orthopedic surgeons that tourniquets are much safer than traditionally understood. Even an amputated limb has a warm ischemia team of 6 hours. The addition of a clotting agent would stop venous oozing, but wouldn’t affect hemodynamics of the patient. It might assist in the case of an inappropriately applied tourniquet.

-Hemostasis of an abdominal wound. - I guess they envisage pouring this material into the abdomen? That seems like the place most fraught with danger of embolization distally to the mesentery and the generation of immune system interaction weirdness beyond my knowledge base.

A kaolin-based product (Quickclot) was similarly marketed as a wonder drug for treating massive hemorrhage on the battlefield, and it has been less than wonderful in practice. There are youtube videos attesting to its efficacy on the femoral arteries of swine, however these videos ignore the effect wind has upon the powder in a combat setting, and the exothermic reaction that takes place to create the plug. The only way to stop a large hemorrhage is to use copious amounts of the material, resulting in severe burns in some case reports. Concern over embolization of the clotted material led them to create a gauze-bag version.

The company’s claims that holding pressure over the wound is not required runs counter to basic trauma care recommendations. The single best way to halt life-threatening hemorrhage in an extremity is a tourniquet, and the only thing that halts thorax hemorrhage is a surgeon’s finger. The inclusion of this gel in the treatment algorithm would need to be as a last resort, and must never distract from the basics of direct pressure and rapid transport to a surgeon.

I don't know if this qualifies as an ad hominem on my part, but the article comes across as written by the journalist in close coordination with the companies PR firm. The 'hook' inherent in the choice of headline combined with the lack of any discussion of the limitations of the product or previous failures with regards to ‘miracle’ hemorrhage agents cements this in my opinion.

[JumpCrisscross]

OP (edit: submitter) has zero comment history and appears to have only submitted his own articles [1]. Not damning, but a red flag.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=leojkent

[healthenclave]

Well it seems that this gel might have very little application on it's own and would be best used in conjunction with traditional tried and tested methods.

The major flaw with this gel is the risk of Hematoma. Basically lets say you have a vessel that has been ruptured by trauma and you use this gel to pack up the external wound.

But the vessel is still leaky !! This will lead to collection of blood inside the body and can be harmful in the long run.

It seems this gel is most suited for (their first clients) the military. And would be effective on the field along with using tourniquet.

Also there is already a variety of Surgical Glue that is in use. But it's used along with traditional sutures as the glue is not strong enough and will rupture. So on the fragile inner layers we use the glue and then towards the skin which is much more stronger the usual catgut sutures are used.

[kkwok]

Since you clearly know a lot on this subject, what are your thoughts on this related Darpa funded project: http://www.healthline.com/health-news/darpa-wound-stasis-foa...

[bobsy]

So where does the blood go?

The demo video shows an extreme bleed. Like a artery has been cut or something. Sure, you seal the blood in but wouldn't you still bleed out internally?

Like if you cut your femoral and gel up your leg. Would you survive for any length of time?

[zackbloom]

Your arteries and veins form a pressurized system. If you seal a hole well enough (stronger than the systolic pressure of the heart), it will prevent any blood from leaking out. When you close your bathroom faucet it doesn't cause water to start leaking out somewhere else in your house.

[user24]

I wonder how this differs from the existing products celox[1] and quikclot[2], which AFAIK are coagulants?

[1] http://www.celoxmedical.com/tech_howitworks.htm

[2] http://www.z-medica.com/healthcare/How-QuikClot-Works/How-Qu...

edit: from a quick look over all three (I'm no expert), it seems like this new one might be faster acting.

[kijin]

Sounds cool, but I wonder what would happen with bacteria that are trapped underneath the rapidly solidifying gel.

Usually, the flow of blood tends to wash pathogens out of the wound, reducing the chance of nasty infections. Positive blood pressure can therefore be considered a natural defense mechanism. But if you stopped the bleeding too quickly, wouldn't it trap pathogens inside the body before the blood has had a chance to wash them out? Or does the extra-rapid clotting actually trap pathogens within the solid matrix, preventing them from spreading further into the body?

[gnosis]

I am not a doctor, but from what I've read, treating an infection is usually considered much less of a priority by emergency responders than stopping severe bleeding.

You can bleed to death in a few minutes. Few if any infections are going to be that fast-acting. So stopping severe bleeding will hopefully buy you some time to get to the ER, where they'll pump you full of antibiotics if they have to.

[uptown]

It's a temporary stop-gap. I'm assuming the strategy would be that when the injured gets brought in for treatment, then you re-open the wound, cleanse the area, and give the body appropriate anti-biotics to fight off any infections.

You've gotta pick the lesser of two evils - somebody that bleeds out, or somebody that is alive and able to fight off an infection.

[kibwen]

The article mentions that you can freely mix antibiotics into the gel, so hopefully such a thing would prevent (or at least resist) infection in the wound.

[LinaLauneBaer]

No doctor talking: I think it all depends on the situation. If you are bleeding heavily and the only way to stopp it quickly enough would be to use the gel then use it and treat the bacteria later with antibiotics or something...

[chrisvineup]

I would imagine its a trade off, infections can be more readily treated, however bleeding out only takes a few moments.

[ErikRogneby]

Seems like you could mix in a triple antibiotic?

[Sulfolobus]

Could you not just use Superglue for a temporary fix before treatment?

[richardlblair]

Superglue does work. But if you watch the video in the article there is no way you could apply Superglue to a cut that deep and that long.

[chao-]

I don't know enough to say why that would or wouldn't work in some absolute sense. But if we're comparing instead of talking absolutes, my first question to narrow it down is: "Doesn't superglue have some gnarly stuff in it? Stuff that you don't want in your body if an alternative like this exists?"

[mmariani]

  | Using ordinary Super Glue on wounds
  | can cause side effects, but a safer 
  | alternative exists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/04/health/04real.html?_r=0

[mikeash]

In my experience with superglue-based liquid bandage, it works poorly on an actively bleeding wound, as the blood mixes with and breaks through the glue before it sets.

[pyre]

Superglue probably wouldn't dry as fast. It might be toxic, depending on the chemicals. It sounds like this forces the blood to clot, I don't know if the blood would clot fast behind a superglue barrier.

[youngerdryas]

Having previously worked as a carpenter I have vast experience with moderate size cuts, and always had a bottle of brush-on superglue in my belt. If you rinse the cut and leave it a little damp when you apply the superglue it actually pulls the wound closed as it dries as well as killing any bacteria.

[nodata]

Does this generate intense heat like the older products do?

[kalms]

Of all the things from the Mass Effect universe they could invent they picked medigel? Come on!

[1SaltwaterC]

Thinking the same thing. But the medigel is that thing too useful to be banned by the Council, so ... yes.

[L0j1k]

I'm an infantry veteran with three combat tours under my belt. Been there, done that.

The problem with these sort of fast-clot systems (Quick clot or quiclot or however you spell it) is that they inevitably damage the surrounding tissue and make recovery and healing difficult if not impossible without permanent damage. There's a reason they didn't want us to have any of these systems when we got back to the real world (though I kept a couple for myself). If we used them on civilians, we would probably be sued into oblivion for causing severe damage to the bleeder even if we saved their lives using it.

Just like the other medics here will probably tell you, if this isn't on a battlefield saving lives under fire, I don't trust it.

[rdl]

The CAT and the Israeli Bandage, however, are seriously useful, and are in my laptop bag first aid compartment, and in a couple parts of the car, and the range bag.