I can't say that I care if its a lie or not. I find it utterly distasteful that a millionaire parent would 'use' their kid on Kickstarter for $900 in some strange publicity stunt or an unprecedented act of greed.
The fact that Kickstarter seems to allow this also takes away from their credibility, not to mention the complete idiocy of allowing the campaign to collect over $20k.
The again, I guess if you are massively cheap, have zero integrity and don't mind ruining your reputation for less than 1/1000th of your net worth I guess it's a good idea.
She owns a collections agency. I think it's safe to say that she has no reputation that can be ruined by discovery of the fact that she will shamelessly grab every dime in sight, every chance she gets.
This is absolutely brilliant if you want to teach kids lessons about raising money. What better way to teach the barnum lesson about suckers than to take advantage of them? I can fully imagine the mother thinking that this is a lesson she wanted to teach her daughter.
The authors dug up some of her old tweets, and it's clear that Susan tends to behave unethically.
Also breaches Kickstarter rules:
You can't fund your life (i.e. pay my tuition, or camp expenses).
She is spamming all over twitter, including celebs.
Older siblings give younger siblings a hard time in general, regardless of gender; it's an evolved behavior, similar to baby birds pushing siblings out of the nest.
The problem with this and your comparison to lemonade sales is that the lemonade-sale is honest. You bought lemonade and you paid 50 cents. This KS thing was just a big lie designed to pull on heart-strings. Little girl at the corner maybe makes $100 if it's a nice neighborhood and the weather is hot. This KS looks to have collected about 20 grand, for a millionaire mom.
I assume(wrongly?) that the girl selling lemonade at the corner is not rich.
What is wrong with questioning someone's motives? Also, how is this a distraction? People are still giving her money, but some people believe that money is all for naught, and should not be given.
I don't think the fact she is obviously very wealthy is the issue here. Sure, there are some who have the attitude, "She's rich, she doesn't need the money" the Kickstarter is for her kid. Perhaps to teach her daughter a lesson in entrepreneurialism, to teach her daughter a life lesson. It would be too easy for a parent like Susan Wilson to throw money at this RPG camp and say, "There you go have fun". The real problem here is the fact Susan is making her sons public villains here, posting a photo of them and making them out to be really horrible people when in reality what brother isn't horrible to his sisters when growing up? I was horrible and terrorised my 5 sisters (only boy), it's how things go. I would hate to think how I would feel if my parents exploited this very normal fact.
When I was a kid and wanted money (I was around 10) my parents gave me a proposition. My dad is a small engine mechanic, so he gave me a mower and a whipper snipper and said if I wanted to earn money I should go knock on doors and ask if they wanted to mow their lawn. And who honestly would say no to a 10 year old kid (I was quite small for 10 too)? The catch here was any money I earned had to be invested in paying for fuel (fuel was way under a $1 when I was 10), they supplied the fuel initially and then I had to keep buying my own. While Kickstarter doesn't involve any effort, it seems Susan is teaching her kid how to hustle much like my parents did when I was younger. If my parents were rich, would it have been a low thing for them to do? Definitely not. My parents weren't rich, but if they were I can't see the harm in making your kids work for their money (no matter which way they decide to do so).
Are we forgetting gaming companies and people in the industry with money have been exploiting Kickstarter in the same kind of ways, why is Susan any different? She even discloses some information about herself on her Kickstarter bio, it doesn't appear she is trying to hide who she really is, what's the problem with exception of the exploitation here? Maybe her daughter really wants to go to this camp and make a game. The thing that irks me is the high tiered rewards, if the camp is only just under a $1000, what is the rest of the money going towards? Why a $10,000 tier?
I did something similar. I hustled to acquire the lawn mowing gigs for $30 per yard, then subcontracted the actual mowing part to my neighbor for $15 per yard. My parents were pissed when they found out. To this day I still think it was genius
Doesn't KS have an option to stop the project when it raises the needed amount like Indiegogo? Whatever the answer to that is, she can just argue it was too hard to find that option, or that it didn't exist. It'll be forgotten in one year.
How can she argue that she really only wanted $829 or whatever when she allocated 5 spots for $10,000 donation rewards? Doesn't add up. This is a shameless money grab and while I don't think it is illegal (and unlike some, I don't think it looks bad for Kickstarter, though it does look bad for people who blindly donated), it is certainly worth a public shaming, IMO.
The whole thing is terrible, but I was particularly impressed with this:
>My Mom has to hire programmers and developers sometimes for her work. She's really glad I like computers and programming because she says as a business person she feels like she's held hostage by developers.
Besides the undertones of Clients From Hell-ian "my daughter can do this for free", isn't this counterproductive? If the girl is getting horror stories about developers from her mom, won't she be wary of becoming a developer?
Personally, I think it's irrelevant how much money her mom has and this could be a great teaching lesson for her daughter. The modern day lemonade stand.
But...I don't think her daughter has much to do with this: http://i.imgur.com/F03oG3e.png (picture of Larry King & Donald Trump with their "trophy wives") or this http://i.imgur.com/Y0yH2OK.png (I think it's a Greek billionaire w/ younger woman but not sure). If this was a project for a 9 yr old girl it would be much more about the actual project. Instead, it appears the mom is trying to take advantage of feminists who might be down after the whole PyCon fiasco.
Hey you're right. I didn't think of this project as an exploitation of the PyCon fiasco and feminist. Good analysis.
She can just say she'll give it to charity- she has time to turn this around. Still...what 9 year old would like for her mom to manage her stuff? When I was 9 I hated my mom managing my stuff, I would have made the video my self and wrote everything too and collected the money from my friends by sharing the project on FB.
So because the mother is rich, the kickstarter campaign is a scam? As discussed extensively in the earlier post, there are dozens of successful, well-received kickstarter campaigns started by millionaires.
This kind of harmful and devoid of content article should not be featured on HN.
I think the reason this article came into existence was the other thread discussing this issue got renamed to a innocuous title (Under the title should be the original articles title rule) and hence didn't make sense.
Millionaires asking for money to create a product that requires a dev cost of millions which they often then give to donators is a little different.
The real question is, who are the naive suckers that actually donated to this campaign? I wish we could interview one of these donors. What goes through their head when they click the donate button? Do they just read the keywords like, "gender", "girl", "bullying", and pull out their credit card with tears in their eyes?
So Shinta of Destructoid declares a "scam" and all these commenters here take their word for it.
I am by no means a millionaire, but we're reasonably comfortable. I don't hand my children money, they have to earn it. Yes, you get a place to live, food, clothes, and some reasonable toys. Anything else? Well, you need to find a way to earn money for it. If I did have millions, I'd still do this because I'd rather not raise spoiled little brats that grow into adult-sized spoiled little brats.
Others have said it better in other comments here, but the sheer number of people jumping on the scam bandwagon with this article, without a bit of independent reasoning, is appalling.
Now, if she's breaking KS rules, she's breaking the rules. That doesn't automatically classify it as scam material.
iirc and as far as I know, the mother did the kickstarter, the mother "spammed" twitter, and said it was for her daughter. That's not what I'd classify as the daughter "earn[ing] it".
[+] [-] SODaniel|13 years ago|reply
The fact that Kickstarter seems to allow this also takes away from their credibility, not to mention the complete idiocy of allowing the campaign to collect over $20k.
The again, I guess if you are massively cheap, have zero integrity and don't mind ruining your reputation for less than 1/1000th of your net worth I guess it's a good idea.
[+] [-] fnordfnordfnord|13 years ago|reply
She owns a collections agency. I think it's safe to say that she has no reputation that can be ruined by discovery of the fact that she will shamelessly grab every dime in sight, every chance she gets.
[+] [-] niggler|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] digikata|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rogueSkib|13 years ago|reply
This reddit post sums it up: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1awr1n/millionai...
The authors dug up some of her old tweets, and it's clear that Susan tends to behave unethically.
Also breaches Kickstarter rules: You can't fund your life (i.e. pay my tuition, or camp expenses). She is spamming all over twitter, including celebs.
Older siblings give younger siblings a hard time in general, regardless of gender; it's an evolved behavior, similar to baby birds pushing siblings out of the nest.
[+] [-] nostromo|13 years ago|reply
But, other than that, I don't see the problem. It seems mom is trying to instill her daughter with some 'how to hustle' life skills.
This seems like a modern-day take on "if you want to go to camp, sell lemonade and pay for it yourself."
[+] [-] smtddr|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anigbrowl|13 years ago|reply
Yeah, that screamed 'fake' to me as well.
[+] [-] andrewfelix|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ihuman|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DigitalSea|13 years ago|reply
When I was a kid and wanted money (I was around 10) my parents gave me a proposition. My dad is a small engine mechanic, so he gave me a mower and a whipper snipper and said if I wanted to earn money I should go knock on doors and ask if they wanted to mow their lawn. And who honestly would say no to a 10 year old kid (I was quite small for 10 too)? The catch here was any money I earned had to be invested in paying for fuel (fuel was way under a $1 when I was 10), they supplied the fuel initially and then I had to keep buying my own. While Kickstarter doesn't involve any effort, it seems Susan is teaching her kid how to hustle much like my parents did when I was younger. If my parents were rich, would it have been a low thing for them to do? Definitely not. My parents weren't rich, but if they were I can't see the harm in making your kids work for their money (no matter which way they decide to do so).
Are we forgetting gaming companies and people in the industry with money have been exploiting Kickstarter in the same kind of ways, why is Susan any different? She even discloses some information about herself on her Kickstarter bio, it doesn't appear she is trying to hide who she really is, what's the problem with exception of the exploitation here? Maybe her daughter really wants to go to this camp and make a game. The thing that irks me is the high tiered rewards, if the camp is only just under a $1000, what is the rest of the money going towards? Why a $10,000 tier?
[+] [-] tater|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rev_null|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] itafroma|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jjsz|13 years ago|reply
Doesn't KS have an option to stop the project when it raises the needed amount like Indiegogo? Whatever the answer to that is, she can just argue it was too hard to find that option, or that it didn't exist. It'll be forgotten in one year.
[+] [-] georgemcbay|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] niggler|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dictum|13 years ago|reply
>My Mom has to hire programmers and developers sometimes for her work. She's really glad I like computers and programming because she says as a business person she feels like she's held hostage by developers.
Besides the undertones of Clients From Hell-ian "my daughter can do this for free", isn't this counterproductive? If the girl is getting horror stories about developers from her mom, won't she be wary of becoming a developer?
[+] [-] jcc80|13 years ago|reply
But...I don't think her daughter has much to do with this: http://i.imgur.com/F03oG3e.png (picture of Larry King & Donald Trump with their "trophy wives") or this http://i.imgur.com/Y0yH2OK.png (I think it's a Greek billionaire w/ younger woman but not sure). If this was a project for a 9 yr old girl it would be much more about the actual project. Instead, it appears the mom is trying to take advantage of feminists who might be down after the whole PyCon fiasco.
And her mom's previous attempt to raise $20k for making capes has to make one wonder how much of the cash is going to her pocket. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/susanwilson/the-cape-pro...
Edit: Fact that mom has a debt collection business - maybe it's just me but makes it feel more likely the intentions aren't completely honorable.
[+] [-] jjsz|13 years ago|reply
She can just say she'll give it to charity- she has time to turn this around. Still...what 9 year old would like for her mom to manage her stuff? When I was 9 I hated my mom managing my stuff, I would have made the video my self and wrote everything too and collected the money from my friends by sharing the project on FB.
[+] [-] ricardobeat|13 years ago|reply
This kind of harmful and devoid of content article should not be featured on HN.
[+] [-] aaron695|13 years ago|reply
Millionaires asking for money to create a product that requires a dev cost of millions which they often then give to donators is a little different.
[+] [-] TheMagicHorsey|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kmfrk|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jwwest|13 years ago|reply
This is more of the ever-popular "eat the rich" sentiment. Frankly, until someone can show that:
a) she doesn't have a daughter, or sons for the matter.
and
b) she pockets the money instead of spending on her daughter's hobby
there is no fraud. Basically if the mother wasn't worth north of a million no one would have batted an eye at this.
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jmount|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] niggler|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Uncompetative|13 years ago|reply
See? I already thought this was suspicious.
and to think I've spent twenty years doing just the R&D for my MMORTSFPSRPG
[+] [-] delinka|13 years ago|reply
I am by no means a millionaire, but we're reasonably comfortable. I don't hand my children money, they have to earn it. Yes, you get a place to live, food, clothes, and some reasonable toys. Anything else? Well, you need to find a way to earn money for it. If I did have millions, I'd still do this because I'd rather not raise spoiled little brats that grow into adult-sized spoiled little brats.
Others have said it better in other comments here, but the sheer number of people jumping on the scam bandwagon with this article, without a bit of independent reasoning, is appalling.
Now, if she's breaking KS rules, she's breaking the rules. That doesn't automatically classify it as scam material.
[+] [-] Kaivo|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] afterburner|13 years ago|reply
Oh, so a manipulative vulture. Makes sense now.
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] arnoldc|13 years ago|reply
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/susanwilson/9-year-old-b...