I don't know where I read it, but I think it's true: every generation of Americans has tried to close the door to immigrants that try to come after them. This is simply the latest example.
Except it is not simply that. I think this is far more important. In an age where competition for talent has become global, any country that wants to get ahead (or remain ahead) needs to do everything it can to both train and attract said talent. And since American universities are not turning up enough people with technology degrees, America has to turn to foreigners to fill in the gaps in the tech sector.
Does this depress wages and screw over some Americans? You bet. Welcome to globalism. Your citizenship no longer matters to the labor market. Soon, your physical location won't matter either. Hopefully you have some other means of setting yourself apart from the (now) global pool of candidates.
My H1B application is in lottery despite already having an H1B visa. Here's why -
There are two types of H1Bs -
* cap exempt: For non-profits, public/state universities , public university hospitals and national labs.
* cap subject: For profit making companies.
According to visa rules, an applicant is subject to cap-based system if he/she hasn't been counted in the cap in last six years. You need to find an employer who will apply for your H1B in April and then wait for you until October. Not many employers will hire such candidate. So it's extremely difficult to transfer job from cap-exempt H1B employer to cap-subject H1B employer unless you have been counted in the cap-based H1B system before.
Moral: Don't take your first H1B job with a non-profit (Khan Academy??), national lab or public university.
You would think you may get some benefits by working for a research or non-profit organization, but sadly that's not the case.
Past years:
"FY 2010 cap numbers lasted until December 21, 2009. The FY 2011 cap was reached on January 26, 2011, the FY 2012 cap was reached on November 23, 2011, the FY 2013 cap was reached on June 11, 2012, and the FY 2014 cap was reached on April 5, 2013."
Source: http://www.nafsa.org/Resource_Library_Assets/Regulatory_Info...
Next year it could be worse, like the 1st day the cap might be reached. It only shows how important and urgent is to fix the legal immigration system in this country.
The "apply in April and spend six months in limbo" structure of the H-1B program seems like it would heavily favor multinational companies that can hire someone for a position abroad, and relocate them to the US if their visa comes through. I wonder if that's why Infosys et al account for such a large portion of the H-1B pool.
Can anyone more familiar with the situation comment on whether this is how the process actually works? Do people who would be Infosys employees in the US continue to work for Infosys in India if their visa application gets rejected?
Large multinationals that hire abroad and then bring workers to the U.S. typically have a blanket L-1 and bring their foreign workers over on those visas. Depending on the country these workers can remain on their L-1 for anywhere from 3 months to 5 years. The L-1 is designed to allow companies to transfer their employees between offices in various countries easily.
I can't speak directly to what infosys does but another large Indian company that has a lot of H-1Bs has them because they don't qualify for the L-1 since their employees aren't technically transfers and come to the U.S. to work as employees for the Indian company and as a contractor to the U.S. companies (essentially). This particular company does continue to employ their workers when they come back to India as they have work for other countries and internal projects the labor can be used for.
If you are talking about people who get hired in India, then yes they continue to work for Infosys. I am not sure about what will happen to people who get hired in the US(like international students).
Companies like Infosys are large enough that there is always another project where you can move to even if you dont get a visa.
I am writing this so people in situation like me will feel better.
People didn't know what day it will run out, so we can assume than number of applications on 5th probably wasn't higher than on previous 4 days. We don't know on what time on day on 5th day it ran out. What's more majority of applications were made on 1st day (a lot of companies were expecting this situation, one which is getting me h1b included). I'd say expected probability of not getting a VISA is below 10% .
To counter the fact that USA government does "weekly" accounting of number of applications (that 65k-th application was made earlier this week, but only today government realized this) is this document from 2008 - www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/H1BFY08Cap040307.pdf , where USCIS released document the next day after cap was reached, the next day after they started accepting applications.
I think H1B visa is pretty horrible for start-up employees. Large Indian outsourcing companies like TCS, Infoasys etc. are using H1B for sending their half-trained software donkeys as cheap labor to US.
How can you equate a start-up founder with a QA guy working in TCS ?
I think there should be two different visa categories.
1. Those who are employed in their respective country for an outsourcing company and are applying for H1B.
2. Separate category for US based companies hiring global talent.
3. Separate caps for small companies.
What is wrong with lottery system.
My wife worked with an Indian outsourcing giant. She worked on a project by an American client. When they wanted to send someone to US on B1 visa they put 10 of their employees in the pipeline. Idea was if anyone's visa gets rejected the next person will try for it. They also divided these 10 people in 4 buckets and each bucket applied with a separate embassy in India.
I suspect with H1B lottery such large companies will also try to make more applications. Bad for everyone.
If government really wanted to fix this, they would give priority to international students graduating from universities in US first, then allocate any remaining H1-Bs for consultancy agencies from India and elsewhere.
"then allocate any remaining H1-Bs for consultancy agencies from India" The idea of companies eliminating a source of relatively cheap labor is unheard of, not gonna happen. While I agree with your statement, this is the crux of the problem, and why I am against 20k increase in STEM visas. Its bad for every worker, US citizen, Green Card Holder, and Visa alike in this country.
The program was first come first server after financial crisis. Now US economy became more attractive to foreign engineers and consulting companies once again.
same here.. my OPT gets over in a few months.. this may screw me over completely and force me to go back to native country. Dreams in Silicon Valley burnt due to extremely limited cap.
Do I understand it right, that lottery will be only for applications made on 5th day, not for applications made through whole week? My application was on 1st and I don't know if I still can get screwed by randomness.
No, USCIS collects all the applications received during the 1st five business days and put them together before they are lottried out. So any application received after today would automatically be rejected.
Exactly, I never understood Obama's stance on Immigration. He comes to SV and promises us that he will fix High Tech Immigration Problem but in actuality he does little. His policy instead focusses more on Illegal Immigration. This is where I prefer Republican party's agenda.
You are an Indian who has just finished your MS in Stanford. To get a job now you compete in a lottery which puts you and a software donkey from TCS with a degree from pretentious engineering college at the same odds.
How is this tripe modded up? A software donkey? Has it ever occurred to this guy that he is talking about another human being? And has history belonged to only those who passed through the hallow halls of Stanford? WTF?
I know a lot of smart engineers from TCS who couldn't imagine doing an MS from the US (or for that matter even from India), because their family couldn't afford it. People who do not aspire to do an MS from Stanford certainly do not qualify being a "software donkey".
PS: No affiliation with TCS or Stanford other than having met smart people from both places.
[+] [-] enraged_camel|13 years ago|reply
Except it is not simply that. I think this is far more important. In an age where competition for talent has become global, any country that wants to get ahead (or remain ahead) needs to do everything it can to both train and attract said talent. And since American universities are not turning up enough people with technology degrees, America has to turn to foreigners to fill in the gaps in the tech sector.
Does this depress wages and screw over some Americans? You bet. Welcome to globalism. Your citizenship no longer matters to the labor market. Soon, your physical location won't matter either. Hopefully you have some other means of setting yourself apart from the (now) global pool of candidates.
[+] [-] fakeer|13 years ago|reply
And the first generation(and next few) butchered the native habitants or sidelined them to the reserves. Is this the entire story?
[+] [-] neubyr|13 years ago|reply
There are two types of H1Bs -
According to visa rules, an applicant is subject to cap-based system if he/she hasn't been counted in the cap in last six years. You need to find an employer who will apply for your H1B in April and then wait for you until October. Not many employers will hire such candidate. So it's extremely difficult to transfer job from cap-exempt H1B employer to cap-subject H1B employer unless you have been counted in the cap-based H1B system before.Moral: Don't take your first H1B job with a non-profit (Khan Academy??), national lab or public university.
You would think you may get some benefits by working for a research or non-profit organization, but sadly that's not the case.
[+] [-] suyash|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nearst|13 years ago|reply
Past years: "FY 2010 cap numbers lasted until December 21, 2009. The FY 2011 cap was reached on January 26, 2011, the FY 2012 cap was reached on November 23, 2011, the FY 2013 cap was reached on June 11, 2012, and the FY 2014 cap was reached on April 5, 2013." Source: http://www.nafsa.org/Resource_Library_Assets/Regulatory_Info...
[+] [-] suyash|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jmharvey|13 years ago|reply
Can anyone more familiar with the situation comment on whether this is how the process actually works? Do people who would be Infosys employees in the US continue to work for Infosys in India if their visa application gets rejected?
[+] [-] ktsmith|13 years ago|reply
I can't speak directly to what infosys does but another large Indian company that has a lot of H-1Bs has them because they don't qualify for the L-1 since their employees aren't technically transfers and come to the U.S. to work as employees for the Indian company and as a contractor to the U.S. companies (essentially). This particular company does continue to employ their workers when they come back to India as they have work for other countries and internal projects the labor can be used for.
[+] [-] abraham_s|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kozikow|13 years ago|reply
People didn't know what day it will run out, so we can assume than number of applications on 5th probably wasn't higher than on previous 4 days. We don't know on what time on day on 5th day it ran out. What's more majority of applications were made on 1st day (a lot of companies were expecting this situation, one which is getting me h1b included). I'd say expected probability of not getting a VISA is below 10% .
To counter the fact that USA government does "weekly" accounting of number of applications (that 65k-th application was made earlier this week, but only today government realized this) is this document from 2008 - www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/H1BFY08Cap040307.pdf , where USCIS released document the next day after cap was reached, the next day after they started accepting applications.
[+] [-] makmanalp|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tn13|13 years ago|reply
How can you equate a start-up founder with a QA guy working in TCS ?
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tn13|13 years ago|reply
1. Those who are employed in their respective country for an outsourcing company and are applying for H1B. 2. Separate category for US based companies hiring global talent. 3. Separate caps for small companies.
What is wrong with lottery system.
My wife worked with an Indian outsourcing giant. She worked on a project by an American client. When they wanted to send someone to US on B1 visa they put 10 of their employees in the pipeline. Idea was if anyone's visa gets rejected the next person will try for it. They also divided these 10 people in 4 buckets and each bucket applied with a separate embassy in India.
I suspect with H1B lottery such large companies will also try to make more applications. Bad for everyone.
[+] [-] everest81|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] suyash|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jacalata|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zpk|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] soundsop|13 years ago|reply
The first 20,000 applicants with an advanced degree from a US institution have priority.
[+] [-] harichinnan|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] makmanalp|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gokulk|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jayaram|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shaohua|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kozikow|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] suyash|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robot|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mh_yam|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] suyash|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prostoalex|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robot|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] suyash|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] suyash|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] knowshan|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kevinprince|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] octix|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] openforce|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tn13|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Cherian_Abraham|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] curiousfiddler|13 years ago|reply
PS: No affiliation with TCS or Stanford other than having met smart people from both places.
[+] [-] nu2ycombinator|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] euphoria83|13 years ago|reply