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Don't use Linksys routers

398 points| zachinglis | 13 years ago |superevr.com | reply

148 comments

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[+] NelsonMinar|13 years ago|reply
The modern equivalent of a Linksys WRT54GL is the ASUS RT-N16. It runs OpenWrt, DD-WRT, and Tomato variants really well, does 802.11n (only one frequency) and has plenty of memory and flash storage for extra hacking. The ASUS RT-N66U is frequently advised if you want 5GHz 802.11n as well.

The other router mentioned in this article, the Linksys EA2700, doesn't seem compatible with third party firmware. And apparently the Cisco firmware is buggy, no surprise there. It is an awfully cheap Dual-Band 802.11n router, but if you can't put working software on it it's useless.

I don't understand why some major router manufacturer doesn't just sell routers pre-installed with Tomato. It's easy to use, stable, and works way better than any crap the router companies cobble together. Flashing new firmware on a stock ASUS router is too complex for ordinary consumers.

[+] montecarl|13 years ago|reply
I am the owner of an ASUS RT-N16. I purchased it when my Linksys WRT-54G died after 4 years. It really is a fantastic wifi router for the reasons you list. However, if you live in an apartment complex you might find the 2.4GHz spectrum very crowded. Especially if there are others with 2.4GHz 802.11n, which uses more channels than 802.11b/g. This might make it worthwhile to purchase a 5 Ghz 802.11n router.
[+] justin66|13 years ago|reply
> It runs OpenWrt, DD-WRT, and Tomato variants really well

You're sure about that? I've had an rt-n16 sitting on a shelf for over a year waiting for OpenWrt support. Your message caused me to go check their website, and all it says is:

"The Asus RT-N16 has early support in Barrier Breaker (trunk) only!"

[+] NelsonMinar|13 years ago|reply
BTW, if you want to help a non-geek install Tomato, the folks at EasyTomato have done great work making an accessible version of the firmware: http://www.easytomato.org/
[+] josteink|13 years ago|reply
> The modern equivalent of a Linksys WRT54GL is the ASUS RT-N16

When I was in the market for something like that one or two years back, I was recommended a specific type of Buffalo Router [1]. While I see my particular model has been superceeded by newer ones, I still thought I'd mention it because:

1. It was recommended to me by someone who had been served it extremely well by it in the past. It has now served me extremely well for years. It will probably do you good as well.

2. It's OK to support more than the top 3 vendors in the world with your money. This leads to more competition, more diversity and better products.

3. Putting stock dd-wrt or openwrt on it can be done all in browser and doesn't seem to involve brick risking procedures like bootloader updates, like I see you may have to go through for the Asus router.

[1] http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0028ACYEK

[+] adamfeldman|13 years ago|reply
After running DD-WRT on a WRT54GL for years I tried the RT-N16 and got terrible network throughout over WiFi even within 5-15ft. Maybe the issue has been solved in the last few months but I was very disappointed.
[+] davidjade|13 years ago|reply
I just bought and re-flashed an ASUS RT-N16 with TomatoUSB (Shibby fork) last week and it is a great router. For me it has great stability and range. I had previously used Tomato on an older router and liked it so I stuck with it. You can use the ASUS recovery mode software to directly flash with custom firmware images. My understanding is that because it has this special recovery mode it is virtually un-brickable.
[+] vacri|13 years ago|reply
Thank you for the info - do you know if there's an ADSL modem that's good for DD-WRT these days? Last I looked (yeeeaaaars ago) there were only two models, long since out of production, and they didn't seem to be going in that direction anymore.
[+] jwr|13 years ago|reply
Tomato works fine until you need QoS. Then it hangs sporadically. Verified with two different router types.
[+] illuminate|13 years ago|reply
Why? Control, keeping the advanced software features out of the low tier products and planned obsolescence.
[+] ajb|13 years ago|reply
Consumer routers are a low margin product. Vendors want to do as little work as possible, so they ship mostly the software provided by the silicon vendor.
[+] IheartApplesDix|13 years ago|reply
Nobody here seems to realize that these firmware upgrades do little to adress these issues. Tomato explicitly says its a UI update only..
[+] spindritf|13 years ago|reply
Or just put OpenWRT[1] on it. It's a real Linux distribution with a package manager and everything. You can even disable the webinterface, if you don't trust it, and use SSH.

EDIT: WRT54GL is pretty old and it won't run the default build of OpenWRT Attitude Adjustment (the newest release). It also probably won't have enough memory to operate the package manager or the webinterface.

But I do have one running a custom build. The only downside is that you need to decide which software to include upfront. Their build tool is rather friendly[2].

EDIT2: You can have a VPN server and any routing you like on OpenWRT, same with Samba, radvd, vnstat... There are even webUI pluings (luci-app-whatever) so you can control those from the webinterface for ease of access. It is a real Linux distro that just happens to run on routers.

[1] https://openwrt.org/

[2] http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/build

[+] AnthonyMouse|13 years ago|reply
The trouble with the WRT54G series (and most of these little routers) is that they have ~200MHz CPUs and ~16MB of RAM. This is, incidentally, why they often crash when you open a lot of simultaneous connections -- memory exhaustion.

I find that if you're interested in experimenting with a Linux router, old PCs are a much better choice. You can get a PowerPC G3 or G4 or a late model Pentium III for practically zero money (if not literally zero money out of a trash heap) and PCI NICs for secondary interfaces are similarly inexpensive. For only slightly more money the G4 Mac Mini is an excellent choice for a wireless router. Then you have a processor that is several times faster and can put arbitrarily much memory and storage in it to suit your needs and then put your favorite Linux router distribution (or Debian) on it and have at it.

[+] bvdbijl|13 years ago|reply
Unfortunately, that doesn't really help normal customers because they can't be bothered with doing stuff like flashing an alternative firmware
[+] tobbez|13 years ago|reply
> It also probably won't have enough memory to operate [...] the webinterface.

It does have enough memory for the web interface - at least for the one in KAMIKAZE (8.09.2, r18961), the version mine is running.

[+] UnoriginalGuy|13 years ago|reply
Linksys went from being the "iPhone of home networking" to being something I won't recommend. In Cisco's care the company has gone from being a market leader to a dud.

Now a lot of people might say "I doesn't matter who makes it, I'll just flash OpenWRT or DD-WRT onto it!" But I say to that, "then why buy a Linksys?"

Asus for one example are cheaper, they often have external antenna giving you more power and flexibility (both literally and figuratively) plus and most importantly they can be flashed with OpenWRT or DD-WRT at your pleasure.

Even without the security issues there is no good reason to buy a Linksys.

Right now I am using my ISP supplied "router" in cable-modem "mode" (i.e. just dumb pass-through to ethernet) and have a cheap MikroTik/RouterOS device sitting behind it which was cheaper than most retail grade routers but with the functionality of commercial grade equipment.

RouterOS might not be as easy to use as DD-WRT, but if you can use it then it is far more powerful as a web-based environment. Just for one example, want a VPN server? RouterOS supports IPSec/L2TP, PPtP/GRE, SSTP, and OpenVPN. Basically everything. The list of its network functionality is almost endless...

[+] illuminate|13 years ago|reply
"being the "iPhone of home networking""

Howso? All I remember from their heyday was that they were good enough, cheap enough, and flashable. I don't remember them commanding a premium for any particular reason.

[+] brooksbp|13 years ago|reply
I highly recommend Mikrotik to anyone fed up with traditional consumer wifi routers/APs. I dont know how they compare to other vendor hw eg Asus + OpenWRT, but this little guy has been rock solid and a joy to use: http://routerboard.com/RB2011UAS-2HnD-IN
[+] waffle_ss|13 years ago|reply
Thanks for the recommendation. I'm absolutely fed up with my D-Link DIR-655 always needing to be restarted when the wireless decides to stop working, and was looking for something exactly like this. I was beginning to dread having to build something like a Smoothwall/pfSense box; I did that around 2005 with an old desktop computer and it didn't work that well.

I've actually heard of Mikrotik before; about 10 years ago I was doing some work planning a 2.4GHz wireless ISP (WISP) and I think Mikrotik equipment was highly regarded then (especially in the 900MHz spectrum IIRC) so looking forward to this.

Here's a link to a distributor where it can be purchased: http://www.roc-noc.com/mikrotik/routerboard/RB2011UAS-2HnD-I...

[+] UnoriginalGuy|13 years ago|reply
I have a Mikrotik/RouterOS device.

Positives: Cheap. Powerful. Stable.

Negatives: Harder to use than OpenWRT/DD-WRT or similar. It is still a web-interface, but doesn't "baby" the user. If you aren't comfortable manually setting up interfaces and then setting up tunnels through those interfaces for example then skip this.

I love it. But I won't kid myself, it isn't for everyone. The documentation isn't comprehensive and the software is very powerful but not very intuitive (or at least it isn't if you don't have a good background configuring network equipment).

[+] lazyjones|13 years ago|reply
My Linksys router has had Tomato on it from the first day, it's the only sane thing to do (OpenWRT or DD-WRT would work too) when closed-source software is regularly exploited and not patched in a timely manner - and when noone knows what kind of government-friendly backdoors exist in such products (made by companies that earn significant revenue from government contracts).

Also, there's plenty of very cheap router hardware coming from China nowdays, from TP-Link you can get OpenWRT-capable routers for less than $15, so there's not much point in paying a lot more for Linksys products.

[+] mikecane|13 years ago|reply
Having looked at the post, doesn't he really mean don't buy "these models" of Linksys? Or are all models open to certain vulnerabilities?
[+] happycube|13 years ago|reply
This indicates that they're not doing enough testing of any of their routers. Not conclusive, of course...
[+] dz0ny|13 years ago|reply
I use Linksys routers, but not with default software (which we know is "limited"). I would recommend alternatives from here http://tomatousb.org/mods
[+] tjoff|13 years ago|reply
Which makes it a bit odd that he mentions the "uber-popular Linksys WRT54GL router" specifically. The "L" stands for linux, and it was brought back because people specifically wanted to install third party software on it.

And the reason for it becoming popular in the first place was probably a security issue that allowed third party software to be installed.

The "L" version was introduced because newer routers didn't have this capability/vulnerability and people wanted something they could install third party software on. So when the "L" version (which I use) came it was just an older model, with even less memory than the original and a much heftier price. Unless you wanted to run third party software on it it was really bad value for your money.

Anyway, all of this truly sucks. But really, I don't expect more of any consumer router.

EDIT: Oh wow, the WRT54GL was introduced in 2005, nothing too fancy at the time and you can still buy it today - lots of stores have it in stock even.

[+] cdjk|13 years ago|reply
I'm a fan of pfsense [1] on an alix board [2]. The alix boards a little pricey for a router, but has a real amount of memory (256MB). The only downside is that pfsense, since it's based on FreeBSD, doesn't support any 802.11n cards, so you're either stuck with 802.11g, or using a separate access point like I do.

Add in a managed switched and you have the start of a real network at home.

[1] http://pfsense.org/ [2] http://pcengines.ch/alix.htm

[+] sctechie|13 years ago|reply
Let me just get this in before the cries of JUST INSTALL OPENWRT come raining down.

Your mother / father / grandmother / etc are not installing openWRT on their routers. Installing one of these CISCO home routers is pretty much hacking yourself. And, just update the firmware is not gonna work.

Try it one day, go up like 10 people and ask them what's a firmware. If the user isn't technical, you're going to get a 0/10 correct responses.

[+] moonboots|13 years ago|reply
It should be pretty easy to upgrade vulnerable WRT54GL routers. Any volunteers to setup a page that POSTs a newer firmware like OpenWrt or Tomato?
[+] StavrosK|13 years ago|reply
What use is that? If people don't know enough to upload a file to their router, they definitely won't know enough to configure it after it's been done.
[+] jrabone|13 years ago|reply
Just buy Draytek. Playtime is over. Pricy but mine lasted 7 years before I replaced it with another Draytek (for dual WAN support). Bomb proof and great VPN support out of the box. I bridge my parent's network to mine over VPN, and the Linux servers at either end provide failover DNS, mail etc. So useful, especially for remote support.
[+] nnexx|13 years ago|reply
> Just buy Draytek. Playtime is over.

I went to their website (draytek.us) and got this:

> Database connection error (2): Could not connect to MySQL.

[+] FollowSteph3|13 years ago|reply
What recommendations do people here have for an entry level commercial router instead of a high consumer level router?
[+] fsckin|13 years ago|reply
Google Cache of the site since it's having issues. [0]

I enjoy my Asus RT-AC66U. [1] Best commercial router I've seen, and Asus Merlin [2] firmware makes it better.

[0] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JNu4Z9X...

[1] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320...

[2] https://github.com/RMerl/asuswrt-merlin

[+] MertsA|13 years ago|reply
The only problem with Asus Merlin is that it uses the older "stable" wifi drivers. I've been running the unreleased Russian build 3.0.0.4.321 for months now and it's stable as a rock.
[+] autotravis|13 years ago|reply
My ISP makes me use a "gateway"[1][2] with a wireless router built into it. In the name of reducing electricity usage, I forego running my own router and surrender to using theirs. I would be willing to bet many others do the same. I wonder how secure it is?

[1]http://www.att.com/u-verse/explore/residential-gateway.jsp [2]http://verrytechnical.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/ATTUver...

[+] cdjk|13 years ago|reply
My router uses about 3 watts. That adds about $5 per year to my electric bill, which I'm happy to pay to avoid the painful ISP-provided router.
[+] GoodIntentions|13 years ago|reply
My ISP also sent an "all-in-one" device when I hooked up.

All I really wanted was to set it up in bridge mode in front of my pfsense box, but couldn't do this. I cloned their router's MAC, put their router back in the box and used my existing 'dumb' modem.

Perhaps this would work for you as well.

[+] tjbiddle|13 years ago|reply
I just had U-Verse installed yesterday, the tech said you can use your own router if you like. My router is still with my old roommate though, so I haven't tried it - But I see plenty of ethernet ports so I don't see why it wouldn't work.
[+] mschuster91|13 years ago|reply
Half-OT: does anyone know a DD-WRT/OpenWRT compatible WiFi router with support for 2.4/5 GHz WiFi, as well as VLAN on the ports? Bonus points for individual VLAN assignment to the individual ports.
[+] underdown|13 years ago|reply
What? Linksys routers are a great deal - you can find them at goodwill for $5, flash the firmware & configure it in 15 minutes and they work great. My one beef is why don't they put a cheap fan on them when they cost upwards of $100 now that they come with a cisco logo slapped on them.
[+] Sami_Lehtinen|13 years ago|reply
Shouldn't 'hardware' firewalls be secure? And everyone knows that software firewalls are crap. Isn't this common knowledge with professionals. ;)
[+] happycube|13 years ago|reply
;) In the end, all routers are software. A properly set up Linux or BSD router/firewall on a regular PC can be very, very good.

A higher end hardware router actually has tested and (mostly) secured software, these don't...

[+] danielweber|13 years ago|reply
I mostly-bricked a Linksys doing a security analysis on it. It still works, but the UI is completely locked up; I can change nothing on it.
[+] ville|13 years ago|reply
I also bricked my Linksys by opening /upgrade.cgi (mentioned in the article) on a browser.

I was able to finally fix it by downloading a firmware from Linksys, doing a 30/30/30 reset (push reset button for 30 s, turn power off for 30 s and keep on pushing reset for another 30 s after turning it on again) and flashing it with tftp as explained in http://community.linksys.com/t5/Wireless-Routers/E4200-Firmw...

After that I was able to login using the web interface again.

For Mac OS X the command to flash is just tftp, and then in the console that opens type:

    connect 192.168.1.1
    binary
    rexmt 1
    timeout 60
    put firmware_filename.bin
[+] Arainach|13 years ago|reply
So this researcher went from notifying Linksys to open disclosure to the internet after only a month? That hardly seems responsible.