I love this exchange from Louis...no matter how novel his DIY startup-like strategy has been, it all comes down to grueling hard work:
----
Q. You’ve spent the last several months on a tour where you sold tickets only through your Web site. How did that go?
A. Boy, did that work. It was so satisfying to get that done. The special, I didn’t need to do anything. I just made it and offered it. But the tickets were really tricky. The big ticket companies make exclusive arrangements with these rooms. They pay them just to not work with others. So if a company gives you 30 grand a year to stay away from anybody else, you need it. We didn’t attack their territory. We just went to places that they didn’t care about.
Does it matter that what you’ve achieved, with your online special and your tour can’t be replicated by other performers who don’t have the visibility or fan base that you do?
Why do you think those people don’t have the same resources that I have, the same visibility or relationship? What’s different between me and them?
You have the platform. You have the level of recognition.
So why do I have the platform and the recognition?
At this point you’ve put in the time.
There you go. There’s no way around that. There’s people that say: “It’s not fair. You have all that stuff.” I wasn’t born with it. It was a horrible process to get to this. It took me my whole life. If you’re new at this — and by “new at it,” I mean 15 years in, or even 20 — you’re just starting to get traction. Young musicians believe they should be able to throw a band together and be famous, and anything that’s in their way is unfair and evil. What are you, in your 20s, you picked up a guitar? Give it a minute.
> At this point you’ve put in the time.
There you go. There’s no way around that.
I heard Darren LaCroix[1] describe a Comedy career like that is a 4-yr education, just like college. 4-years starting from the initial point of getting on stage for the first time. Hundreds of gigs, some unpaid. Bombing on stage, driving to some gigs two-hours one-way. Working from 5 min. of material to 15 min. to being an opening act to headlining. And eventually you become seasoned enough that you can handle any crowd, deliver your routine, focus people's attention, entertain the audience, enlighten them, make people laugh enough that they forget and escape the reality of their lives... like a professional.
Darren makes $5k+ as a keynote speaker per gig and he did say that the $5k is not for the 30-min or hour he speaks - it is for the thousands of hours he put in (the 2-hr drives, the bombing, the 3/4 empty audiences in small clubs) to get to the point where people know he is going to deliver an inspiring, humorous message to the delegates at a business convetion.
As for a comedy special on HBO - 1 hr of material. That's the equivalent of making the major leagues.
> At this point you’ve put in the time. There you go. There’s no way around that.
Interesting how the internet is changing this rule. Bo Burnham [1] became a famous YouTube comedian at the age of 16. When he started touring, his shows immediately sold out and he got a deal with MTV for a TV show. Apparently this annoyed some comedians because he didn't pay his dues [2].
The big ticket companies make exclusive arrangements with these rooms. They pay them just to not work with others. So if a company gives you 30 grand a year to stay away from anybody else, you need it. We didn’t attack their territory. We just went to places that they didn’t care about.
This is a strategy IAC uses with a lot of their companies, including Ticketmaster. Barry Diller started out at Paramount Pictures, so he brings with him the same type of thinking that fuels the MPAA and RIAA. "The solution isn't innovation, let's just keep people doing whatever they've been doing. If we have to sue our customers, so be it."
I think it's awesome when guys like Louis C.K. go outside of the system and as a result end up gaining a lot of leverage and power as a result. I remember Trent Reznor doing the same thing.
I see it the other way around - when idealists point at Louis CK's method of selling tickets, they claim it's a viable way to make a lot of money and cut out The Man in the process. It neatly sidesteps that that particular method only really works because he already had a big name.
But in contrast to the last sentence of CK's quoted there - music is different. It's not a long way to the top at all. It's a short way to the top, it's just that not many make it out of the huge amount trying. Look at how young so many of the top 40 are - these, by and large, aren't people out of their 20s.
The power I had was to be able to keep saying: “I’ll do it myself. I do not need you.”
This is a great lesson about entrepreneurship but is only half of the story. Ultimately he was able to get himself into a position where he had an upper hand in negotiation, and it took a unique vision and a ton of work to get there. This is where every business person wishes to see themselves.
But, in the process of getting there he was working within the system to learn it inside and out. He was also practicing and increasing his story telling skills and discipline so that he knew how to do it himself. Eventually he learned he could disintermediate his fans from the ticketing/venue/media system because he had enough knowledge of how it all worked.
"I do not need you." is the goal, but you often get there by coming up within the system. There is a crucial moment where you know enough to do it yourself and have the vision, energy, opportunity, skill and luck to grab it and run with it.
I find the title of the title of this article bizarre. I almost expected it to be some kind of takedown or smear article. But it's just a standard interview...
I thought it was a play of "This next round's on me"...as in, Louis CK is himself responsible for his jokes -- or, in this case, the distribution of the jokes. I thought it was clever :)
I don’t think you should ever say anything that you’re going to have to apologize for later. If the heat gets hot, just let them get mad. How did somebody make you apologize? Did they literally hit you on your body? Let them be upset. It’s not the worst thing in the world.
I wish more people had this view, particularly in the political arena. Be who you are, courageously. Let people see your authentic self. Nobody trusts politicians because they are chameleons: they say something to one group, and then turn around and apologize for it to another group. It's so transparent.
I wish more people had this view, particularly in the political arena. Be who you are, courageously.
I remember reading that a comedian who gets 10% of the population to like him is a well-known millionaire, while a politician who gets 45% of the population to like him isn't a politician because he loses elections.
Politicians, especially high-level ones, need to reach 50.1% of voters, which usually means pandering to the median with bland pablum, because bland pablum can appeal to almost everyone, whereas courageous personality will often make 33% of people love you and 66% hate you.
> Nobody trusts politicians because they are chameleons
One could also say that nobody trusts politicians because the level of public discourse has fallen to the idiocy one sees on TV that's called "debate". It's all part of the same vicious cycle involving many parts: Sensationalist vapid news media. Sensationalist vapid politicians. Half-baked legislation. Incensed public that feels less invested in society.
It all goes around in a slow cycle. It's like we're on a helicopter that lost power, and we're autorotating down to the ground.
Q: And HBO will let you do an online release of “Oh My God” later in the year?
A: Another reason I was willing to do it there was because I had told them I have to be able to sell it on my site. At first HBO was like, “We can’t do that.” And I said, “Well, let’s not do it then.” The power I had was to be able to keep saying: “I’ll do it myself. I do not need you.” They took a while on that one.
I think this doesn't get the press it should yet, but it will. When Louis C.K. discovered he didn't need the networks to distribute his comedy shows, and then proved it, it was like a tiny squirt of water starting to come out of the side of a dam.
Another reason I was willing to do it there was because
I had told them I have to be able to sell it on my site.
At first HBO was like, “We can’t do that.” And I said,
“Well, let’s not do it then.” The power I had was to be
able to keep saying: “I’ll do it myself. I do not need
you.” They took a while on that one.
Does it matter that what you’ve achieved, with your online special and your tour can’t be replicated by other performers who don’t have the visibility or fan base that you do?
Nice, an unbiased interviewer. These are the best.
I thought it was a good question, and probably the only part of the article that's relevant to Hacker News. (FWIW I think it does matter and didn't like his answer)
I'm not sure what bias you're suggesting. It was a softball question to bring out Louis CK's talking about work as be often does. But, it seems unfair taken at face value. Which did you mean?
Not only is he arguably the absolute best in the world at his craft, he is also the most disruptive and innovative. I don't believe the latter can be argued.
Louis seems to be able to stay grounded despite his 'real' self being incredibly successful (and rich!) at this point. Hope he can stay that way.
Seems like so many comedians start off drawing from a real place with their comedy, become super famous and rich, lose that source, and their work suffers for it.
I hope so too, but I don't know that many great comics that fall off like that. Carlin was true to himself to the end, Seinfeld still tours and works relentlessley on his act. Chris Rock may have lost a little bit but is still one of the best standups alive.
Louis CK has been wearing black for as long as I followed his comedy. Recently he wore a purple shirt in his HBO ad, plus the article has him in a blue polo.
[+] [-] danso|13 years ago|reply
----
Q. You’ve spent the last several months on a tour where you sold tickets only through your Web site. How did that go?
A. Boy, did that work. It was so satisfying to get that done. The special, I didn’t need to do anything. I just made it and offered it. But the tickets were really tricky. The big ticket companies make exclusive arrangements with these rooms. They pay them just to not work with others. So if a company gives you 30 grand a year to stay away from anybody else, you need it. We didn’t attack their territory. We just went to places that they didn’t care about.
Does it matter that what you’ve achieved, with your online special and your tour can’t be replicated by other performers who don’t have the visibility or fan base that you do?
Why do you think those people don’t have the same resources that I have, the same visibility or relationship? What’s different between me and them?
You have the platform. You have the level of recognition.
So why do I have the platform and the recognition?
At this point you’ve put in the time.
There you go. There’s no way around that. There’s people that say: “It’s not fair. You have all that stuff.” I wasn’t born with it. It was a horrible process to get to this. It took me my whole life. If you’re new at this — and by “new at it,” I mean 15 years in, or even 20 — you’re just starting to get traction. Young musicians believe they should be able to throw a band together and be famous, and anything that’s in their way is unfair and evil. What are you, in your 20s, you picked up a guitar? Give it a minute.
[+] [-] wallflower|13 years ago|reply
I heard Darren LaCroix[1] describe a Comedy career like that is a 4-yr education, just like college. 4-years starting from the initial point of getting on stage for the first time. Hundreds of gigs, some unpaid. Bombing on stage, driving to some gigs two-hours one-way. Working from 5 min. of material to 15 min. to being an opening act to headlining. And eventually you become seasoned enough that you can handle any crowd, deliver your routine, focus people's attention, entertain the audience, enlighten them, make people laugh enough that they forget and escape the reality of their lives... like a professional.
Darren makes $5k+ as a keynote speaker per gig and he did say that the $5k is not for the 30-min or hour he speaks - it is for the thousands of hours he put in (the 2-hr drives, the bombing, the 3/4 empty audiences in small clubs) to get to the point where people know he is going to deliver an inspiring, humorous message to the delegates at a business convetion.
As for a comedy special on HBO - 1 hr of material. That's the equivalent of making the major leagues.
[1] http://www.angelfire.com/az2/D3tmLeadership3/DarrenLaCroix_S... Technically, he is not a professional comedian now but he applies comedy to business and public speaking training.
[+] [-] munaf|13 years ago|reply
Interesting how the internet is changing this rule. Bo Burnham [1] became a famous YouTube comedian at the age of 16. When he started touring, his shows immediately sold out and he got a deal with MTV for a TV show. Apparently this annoyed some comedians because he didn't pay his dues [2].
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obIGsb-IZMo
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Burnham#Uphill
[+] [-] jmtame|13 years ago|reply
This is a strategy IAC uses with a lot of their companies, including Ticketmaster. Barry Diller started out at Paramount Pictures, so he brings with him the same type of thinking that fuels the MPAA and RIAA. "The solution isn't innovation, let's just keep people doing whatever they've been doing. If we have to sue our customers, so be it."
I think it's awesome when guys like Louis C.K. go outside of the system and as a result end up gaining a lot of leverage and power as a result. I remember Trent Reznor doing the same thing.
[+] [-] vacri|13 years ago|reply
But in contrast to the last sentence of CK's quoted there - music is different. It's not a long way to the top at all. It's a short way to the top, it's just that not many make it out of the huge amount trying. Look at how young so many of the top 40 are - these, by and large, aren't people out of their 20s.
[+] [-] po|13 years ago|reply
This is a great lesson about entrepreneurship but is only half of the story. Ultimately he was able to get himself into a position where he had an upper hand in negotiation, and it took a unique vision and a ton of work to get there. This is where every business person wishes to see themselves.
But, in the process of getting there he was working within the system to learn it inside and out. He was also practicing and increasing his story telling skills and discipline so that he knew how to do it himself. Eventually he learned he could disintermediate his fans from the ticketing/venue/media system because he had enough knowledge of how it all worked.
"I do not need you." is the goal, but you often get there by coming up within the system. There is a crucial moment where you know enough to do it yourself and have the vision, energy, opportunity, skill and luck to grab it and run with it.
[+] [-] jonahx|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aquamongoose|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] astar|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] trustfundbaby|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ams6110|13 years ago|reply
I don’t think you should ever say anything that you’re going to have to apologize for later. If the heat gets hot, just let them get mad. How did somebody make you apologize? Did they literally hit you on your body? Let them be upset. It’s not the worst thing in the world.
I wish more people had this view, particularly in the political arena. Be who you are, courageously. Let people see your authentic self. Nobody trusts politicians because they are chameleons: they say something to one group, and then turn around and apologize for it to another group. It's so transparent.
[+] [-] jseliger|13 years ago|reply
I remember reading that a comedian who gets 10% of the population to like him is a well-known millionaire, while a politician who gets 45% of the population to like him isn't a politician because he loses elections.
Politicians, especially high-level ones, need to reach 50.1% of voters, which usually means pandering to the median with bland pablum, because bland pablum can appeal to almost everyone, whereas courageous personality will often make 33% of people love you and 66% hate you.
[+] [-] spodek|13 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8vh2MwXZ6o
Integrity in the face of judgment.
[+] [-] stcredzero|13 years ago|reply
One could also say that nobody trusts politicians because the level of public discourse has fallen to the idiocy one sees on TV that's called "debate". It's all part of the same vicious cycle involving many parts: Sensationalist vapid news media. Sensationalist vapid politicians. Half-baked legislation. Incensed public that feels less invested in society.
It all goes around in a slow cycle. It's like we're on a helicopter that lost power, and we're autorotating down to the ground.
[+] [-] anigbrowl|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|13 years ago|reply
A: Another reason I was willing to do it there was because I had told them I have to be able to sell it on my site. At first HBO was like, “We can’t do that.” And I said, “Well, let’s not do it then.” The power I had was to be able to keep saying: “I’ll do it myself. I do not need you.” They took a while on that one.
I think this doesn't get the press it should yet, but it will. When Louis C.K. discovered he didn't need the networks to distribute his comedy shows, and then proved it, it was like a tiny squirt of water starting to come out of the side of a dam.
[+] [-] fotbr|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aaronbrethorst|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] revelation|13 years ago|reply
Nice, an unbiased interviewer. These are the best.
[+] [-] tome|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bthomas|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 1123581321|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 6thSigma|13 years ago|reply
Not only is he arguably the absolute best in the world at his craft, he is also the most disruptive and innovative. I don't believe the latter can be argued.
[+] [-] eavc|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JamesArgo|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KVFinn|13 years ago|reply
Seems like so many comedians start off drawing from a real place with their comedy, become super famous and rich, lose that source, and their work suffers for it.
[+] [-] kevdigital|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rajivtiru|13 years ago|reply
/louiscknerd
[+] [-] l33tbro|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rglover|13 years ago|reply
Yes.
[+] [-] drama247365|13 years ago|reply
[deleted]