Those do not include the most ridiculous thing they've done.
The absolutely most bizarre thing is that, being "Chechnyan separatists", they attacked the US, precisely the one country they shouldn't have. An attack of Russia, while stupid in its unlikelihood to mobilize popular support for their country, would be at least understandable. Russia is, after all, raping their country every fucking hour. An attack of revenge, maybe against the military or police forces, would be what's expected.
Instead, they attacked the country which they should have tried to ally with, the US. With United-Statesian support, at least they could have a shot at independence, or at least some favourable publicity. There are plenty of reasons for that to happen [1]. The ironic thing is that, even though it was a passional, senseless move, the kind that no serious terrorist planner would consider, it could bring a better understanding, and better publicity for Chechnya in the West. I hope. Or maybe they just ripped to shreds the only good card their country had.
Every terror attack that is attempted, the more convinced I am of Bruce Schneier's views on terrorism: terrorist are fundamentally stupid, emotionally fragile, intellectually lazy people
[2].
There is fairly strong evidence that they were not "Chechnyan separatists" and more likely had an Jihadist motivation. Although it is also highly likely that they acted completely alone and are just stupid.
Ironically Ingush and Chechen islamic terrorists are persistently referred to as "rebels" and "separatists" by Western media, BBC which is perceived as more "independent" news outlet didn't utter once word "terrorist" even during the coverage of the heinous terror attack against children.
People committing acts of terror are terrorists regardless of their aims.
But these particular two guys were attending a top university in the United States so they can't have been too deficient in the IQ department. Why they would attack the country that gave them shelter is beyond me.
For run-of-the-mill suicide bombers I think that fewer brains is actually preferable from the perspective of their higher ups. The less they think things through and the more impressionable they are the bigger the chance they will go through with whatever stupidity they are being tasked with.
Essentially this is an education problem, if you'd manage to get people to think for themselves early enough then you might be able to head off a lot of misery before it gets off the ground.
I suppose we should be glad that most of these "terrorists" are incompetent fools, that means that the competent people of even the die-hard radicals have decided that there are better things to do than blow people up; hopefully something a bit more productive.
Humans are nearly universally bad at doing things they've never done before and never seen someone do before. Experience and institutional experience are really important in doing anything effectively, and tacit knowledge is often hard to convey in training videos. The perpetrators here don't seem to be particularly smart or brave, but I don't see any reason to think they were particularly dumb either.
There are things that could be made at home that would count as WMD. Aum Shinryko made and released aerosolized anthrax. (Luckily, wrong strain of anthrax, and thus no widespread death.)
Its interesting. When the US + UK went into Iraq looking for WMD's I imagined they were after something more menacing than something a kid knocked up in his apartment.
If that is a WMD then what classification do we give the bombs that level buildings that have frequently been used in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan?
The most troubling thing I find about the prosecution is how they listed damaging interstate trade, presumably to keep the death sentence open. Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty.
Perhaps the most troubling thing about the bombings is how two people apparently so disorganized successfully carried out a double bombing..
But it makes them way easier to find next time a government invades another country. Politicians do not like to get "caught" twice - well unless it is an indiscreet sexual liaison. (cynical me?)
The only mystifying thing they did is getting up in the morning and decide that they want to kill innocent people. They've done it in a country that gave them citizenship and great possible future. That's the only question we should ask here.
None of this is mystifying if you realize one fact; they are idiots.
Also the whole "Numbered List of Things" article format is a cancer on the internet and has been for a long time. It's unworthy of Mother Jones and it's unworthy of this subject.
None of this is mystifying if you realize one fact; they are idiots.
So much hand-waving in here, and I think that in itself tells the biggest story. We don't know if what this was; but IF it was a false flag thingy, it could and would be explained away in the same fashion. When something bad is done and the media rub it in deeply enough, anything you can say about the hated villain will be accepted as long as it makes them look even worse, and makes yourself feel superior. When worse things happen and the crickets chirp, well, let's go ride bikes.
You can rationalize it however you want, you can moderate, flag and pout all you want; you've been trained well, and your comment is projection. You project your own irrelevance.
Also the whole "Numbered List of Things" article format is a cancer on the internet and has been for a long time. It's unworthy of Mother Jones and it's unworthy of this subject.
Your response is unworthy of that article and the subject. It's not even a padded list, so wtf do you think you're spouting other than sophistry?
The assumption is that the Mother Jones list is accurate (and other 'official reports' for that matter). I would like to see more people express a broader view about what's possible regarding the Boston circumstances.
I hope that there are people here that do not completely trust law enforcement/FBI and realize that there are shady ties between persons of violent means and the "intelligence" world + power-mad elitists.
I recently found a site called TragedyandHope.net which has some useful info that covers topics from the history of compulsory schooling to "black ops."
These kinds of incidents create a lot of messy unquestioned details that replace knowing with belief, no?
I have a weapon of mass destruction at my home! Just chill guys, I use a pressure cooker to boil potatoes sometimes. Actually I have another one as well, a BB gun. I don't really know which one is the government referring to as a WMD.
Military definition is what we think of as WMD. The FBI definition of WMD, though, is any improvised explosive device with more than 1/4 ounce of explosive.
(Used to be able to buy firecrackers stronger than that so it seems like a trivializing definition to me.)
Oh they did care, that's why they hide and fight back. they are probably just morons filled with hatred and no plan other than "bomb this people". they just assumed that they won't be caught, didn't consider the possibility that they would be identified.
If I could add a 12th item to this list, it would be that one brother accidentally killed the other by running him over with the stolen car while trying to get away.
I don't see that as very mystifying. He was escaping in the middle of a death-defying gun battle and staying alive was literally the only thing on his mind. He panicked, and possibly thought his brother was already dead.
So frustrating. When I click te article on my phone, I get redirected to this page http://app.debka.com/n/ It's going out of its way to make it more difficult to use the site.
[+] [-] lolcraft|13 years ago|reply
The absolutely most bizarre thing is that, being "Chechnyan separatists", they attacked the US, precisely the one country they shouldn't have. An attack of Russia, while stupid in its unlikelihood to mobilize popular support for their country, would be at least understandable. Russia is, after all, raping their country every fucking hour. An attack of revenge, maybe against the military or police forces, would be what's expected.
Instead, they attacked the country which they should have tried to ally with, the US. With United-Statesian support, at least they could have a shot at independence, or at least some favourable publicity. There are plenty of reasons for that to happen [1]. The ironic thing is that, even though it was a passional, senseless move, the kind that no serious terrorist planner would consider, it could bring a better understanding, and better publicity for Chechnya in the West. I hope. Or maybe they just ripped to shreds the only good card their country had.
Every terror attack that is attempted, the more convinced I am of Bruce Schneier's views on terrorism: terrorist are fundamentally stupid, emotionally fragile, intellectually lazy people [2].
[1] http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/wha...
[2] https://www.schneier.com/essay-242.html
[+] [-] samwillis|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Unosolo|13 years ago|reply
Sure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis
Ironically Ingush and Chechen islamic terrorists are persistently referred to as "rebels" and "separatists" by Western media, BBC which is perceived as more "independent" news outlet didn't utter once word "terrorist" even during the coverage of the heinous terror attack against children.
People committing acts of terror are terrorists regardless of their aims.
[+] [-] jacquesm|13 years ago|reply
But these particular two guys were attending a top university in the United States so they can't have been too deficient in the IQ department. Why they would attack the country that gave them shelter is beyond me.
For run-of-the-mill suicide bombers I think that fewer brains is actually preferable from the perspective of their higher ups. The less they think things through and the more impressionable they are the bigger the chance they will go through with whatever stupidity they are being tasked with.
Essentially this is an education problem, if you'd manage to get people to think for themselves early enough then you might be able to head off a lot of misery before it gets off the ground.
[+] [-] m_eiman|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Symmetry|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kumarski|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] InclinedPlane|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DanBC|13 years ago|reply
I'm surprised a pressure cooker bomb is included.
[+] [-] bobsy|13 years ago|reply
If that is a WMD then what classification do we give the bombs that level buildings that have frequently been used in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan?
The most troubling thing I find about the prosecution is how they listed damaging interstate trade, presumably to keep the death sentence open. Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty.
Perhaps the most troubling thing about the bombings is how two people apparently so disorganized successfully carried out a double bombing..
[+] [-] bdfh42|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rshlo|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PavlovsCat|13 years ago|reply
Who made you "the only question we should ask" police?
[+] [-] ebbv|13 years ago|reply
Also the whole "Numbered List of Things" article format is a cancer on the internet and has been for a long time. It's unworthy of Mother Jones and it's unworthy of this subject.
[+] [-] PavlovsCat|13 years ago|reply
So much hand-waving in here, and I think that in itself tells the biggest story. We don't know if what this was; but IF it was a false flag thingy, it could and would be explained away in the same fashion. When something bad is done and the media rub it in deeply enough, anything you can say about the hated villain will be accepted as long as it makes them look even worse, and makes yourself feel superior. When worse things happen and the crickets chirp, well, let's go ride bikes.
You can rationalize it however you want, you can moderate, flag and pout all you want; you've been trained well, and your comment is projection. You project your own irrelevance.
Also the whole "Numbered List of Things" article format is a cancer on the internet and has been for a long time. It's unworthy of Mother Jones and it's unworthy of this subject.
Your response is unworthy of that article and the subject. It's not even a padded list, so wtf do you think you're spouting other than sophistry?
[+] [-] time_n3rgy|13 years ago|reply
I hope that there are people here that do not completely trust law enforcement/FBI and realize that there are shady ties between persons of violent means and the "intelligence" world + power-mad elitists.
I recently found a site called TragedyandHope.net which has some useful info that covers topics from the history of compulsory schooling to "black ops."
These kinds of incidents create a lot of messy unquestioned details that replace knowing with belief, no?
[+] [-] time_n3rgy|13 years ago|reply
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/25/the_changing_facts_in_the_bo...
(Didn't there used to be a comment edit feature?)
[+] [-] ubersync|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Terretta|13 years ago|reply
(Used to be able to buy firecrackers stronger than that so it seems like a trivializing definition to me.)
[+] [-] arcadeparade|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iSnow|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrtksn|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] disbelief|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] techtalsky|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stfu|13 years ago|reply
Debka had another take on the situation:
http://debka.com/article/22914/The-Tsarnaev-brothers-were-do...
[+] [-] jacquesm|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MichaelApproved|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] illuminate|13 years ago|reply