There was a post on HN jobs a little while back about a startup looking for a "front end guy" which reiterated several times throughout the post that they "need a guy" and if "you're the guy" to contact them.
The job sounded great otherwise, and was definitely one I would have been interested in, but I felt immediately disqualified and annoyed.
Normally these types of things don't bother me and I often think people read too much into things, but for some reason, that one did. Maybe it was the casual nature of the writing. It made it seem more personal, which, in turn, made it seem like the author was making it clear that they actually weren't interested in hiring women, that they legitimately felt as if a man was needed to fill the role properly, or that the idea of hiring a woman was so foreign to them that it hadn't even crossed their minds.
fwiw (maybe nothing) I know what you mean about finding certain job postings off-putting. For myself, I don't think it has as much to do with the job posting itself as much as it may have to do with how I am feeling about myself at the moment, and how much I hate the rest of the world.
I can understand and won't argue about your being a woman and being put off by "the guy" language. I'd probably feel the same way, if only because I am 50 and "the guy" seems very young.
I cant see anyone letting something like this hit the public on purpose, big HR slip, but its certainly interesting insight to the hiring manager / person who wrote the job description.
If i were to go into that interview as not a man, i would feel disadvantaged.
This is dumb. It's merely pointing out pronouns. Should it be he/she everywhere or it? Gender neutral is often 'he'. Should we now say that 'all men are created equal'? Is it splitting hairs yet? Nobody is telling women not to get into tech things. I don't know whether it is general interest or what, but it should not engender such divisive hate.
I think we need more positive role models. Less of this pointless vitriol.
I just think women would read this and believe that this company is looking for a male, not a female. I know I would. It would emphasize a bro type of environment.
Your only reference to "he" being gener neutral was from the 1700s... do you have a modern example?
Sorry, they are using correct English. The male gender is used for the gender neutral case. We need something that is truly gender neutral, but all attempts sound wrong to anyone who made it through high school English. S/he is unpronounceable. They sounds strange when talking about a single individual, but kind of works. You works somewhat, but in an employment ad sounds like something out of "Mission Impossible".
please cite a source for "The male gender is used for the gender neutral case". as far as i can tell, this is an issue with no clean solution in modern English.
'he or she' is the most reasonable option in my opinion. it is cumbersome, but that is better than sexist or grammatically incorrect.
'we are looking for a technical lead. he or she will have three years experience as a lead developer or similar role.'
[+] [-] kellishaver|13 years ago|reply
The job sounded great otherwise, and was definitely one I would have been interested in, but I felt immediately disqualified and annoyed.
Normally these types of things don't bother me and I often think people read too much into things, but for some reason, that one did. Maybe it was the casual nature of the writing. It made it seem more personal, which, in turn, made it seem like the author was making it clear that they actually weren't interested in hiring women, that they legitimately felt as if a man was needed to fill the role properly, or that the idea of hiring a woman was so foreign to them that it hadn't even crossed their minds.
It was very off-putting.
[+] [-] flootch|13 years ago|reply
I can understand and won't argue about your being a woman and being put off by "the guy" language. I'd probably feel the same way, if only because I am 50 and "the guy" seems very young.
[+] [-] andrewmcgrath|13 years ago|reply
If i were to go into that interview as not a man, i would feel disadvantaged.
[+] [-] flootch|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] salahxanadu|13 years ago|reply
I think we need more positive role models. Less of this pointless vitriol.
[+] [-] beyondavatars|13 years ago|reply
Your only reference to "he" being gener neutral was from the 1700s... do you have a modern example?
[+] [-] russell|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tks2103|13 years ago|reply
'he or she' is the most reasonable option in my opinion. it is cumbersome, but that is better than sexist or grammatically incorrect.
'we are looking for a technical lead. he or she will have three years experience as a lead developer or similar role.'