Myself and a friend looked in to doing this for sprinkler timers. The aim was to simplify the interface to a large degree and allow for configuration via a browser or mobile device.
As it turns out there is a patent on sprinkler timers with embedded web servers. The owner of the patent has posted hostile messages threatening legal action on any public facing website that posts about the handful of consumer products that might infringe on their patent.
This seems like kind of a silly. The Ubuntu panel he shows there is simple because programmers have hidden all the complexity. Whoever installed the sprinkler system hid the complexity too - they closed the door on the sprinkler control panel. If you wanted it to be simple, you should have left the door closed. You don't need to adjust it. It should have been programmed by the installer to account for seasonal rainfall. Day-to-day rain does not matter at all to your sprinkler programming.
If you want to poke around (literally) under the hood, you don't get to complain about complexity.
But the point is it shouldn't feel like you are going "under the hood" to simply change sprinkler schedule. We still INTERACT with Nest without the need to go under the hood. If you simply "closed the door of sprinkler", you can't interact with it. Nest hides the complexity and provides simple interface for the user.
The problem is that poking around under the hood shouldn't be necessary. If the sprinkler system worked well enough without ever needing to open the hood, then everything's fine. But it looks like that's not the case.
Nest folks, once you are happy with your thermostat product please pivot to water heaters. There is no reason why I heat the water in the tank up throughout the night. I think that my household demand for hot water is fairly predictable with spikes in the morning for showering and in the evening for dishes and laundry.
I've considered doing this manually, but when I ran the numbers, it barely saved anything, at least if your water heater is insulated to modern Energy Star standards. In the past decade or two, standby losses have been brought down so low that they're almost negligible compared to actual hot-water usage, e.g. one shower will take more energy than a whole month of standby heating.
When I looked into it in my own case, it worked out to slightly under 1 kWh/day in standby losses, or about $2/month. I turned off the water heater when I was gone for a month once, and the savings do seem to have been in the noise somewhere. Assuming a Nest-like device to do that for me would cost the same ~$250 that a Nest does, it would take 20 years to recoup the cost of the device, even assuming it was so perfect that it saved all standby losses.
In general, there's a good reason for heating the water overnight: electricity is often cheaper at night, and (on a national level) it means that electricity demand is spread more evenly over the whole 24 hours.
There is no reason why I heat the water in the tank up throughout the night
Aside from the fact that you need the water to remain above a certain level or the water can become dangerous (e.g. legionella), what happens the night you play glow in the dark flag football and decide to take a shower? Or do a load of dishes? Etc.
The Nest "works" (in the absolutely marginal way that it does so) because it makes a middling difference. That would be a stark difference with a hot water tank.
Alternatively, it could check what neighbours' sprinkler systems are set to, and recommend the median or mean (or maybe just the max of immediately adjacent neighbours).
He's just making a wishlist of features; the particular method of implementation doesn't have to match.
I have an Ecobee thermostat in my condo, which I am currently in the process of selling. Young people are usually pretty excited about seeing it in action, but older people are actually turned off. My guess is they see it as another complicated VCR that they can't program, and so, it's actually a negative.
Even the Nest, with it's simple dial would probably scare them, because smart things scare stupid people.
When I tell them that it's an Internet enabled thermostat, they must immediately think, "OMG CHINA HAXORS GUNNA STEAL MY THERMOSTAT MHZ" because that's what the scare-monger media has been telling them over the last six months.
This is where Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) with web tech (ideally) and/or Apps (practically) could shine: the sprinkler system could vend a much better software UI to our smartphones than the hardware UI it's currently offering.
1. When you want to change some parameter of the physical thing, you have to know where your phone is. You can't just go there.
2. You need to take your phone out of your pocket, navigate to the icon, press it, wait, probably tap a button or two, then slide your fingers along a smooth surface in some sort of complex pattern. Meanwhile, you could have walked downstairs and turned a dial, which you can actually feel with your fingers and you don't need to look at.
Nest makes big awesome dials. I too wish more startups with good designers would find some way to displace common hardware controls that are unfamiliar and complex.
Did Android ever get their act together on BLE? Last I checked there are a lot of phones out there with perfectly good BLE chipsets that the OS doesn't acknowledge.
An irrigation system is far more complicated than a thermostat however there are already strong contenders in this space. I use a Cyber-Rain[1] controller which adjusts based on humidity, temperature and forecast along with details provided during setup such as sprinkler types, soil types, grade and more. When your system has a flow sensor the controller will even shut down the system in the event of a broken head and send an email instead of letting hundreds of gallons of water run down the street.
Glad to hear Nest is still around. Last I heard, they were getting the thermonuclear treatment from Honeywell's patent attorneys. Was that resolved recently?
I've had this exact same thought. The other area is pools. Turning on the pool heater and pump via wifi, or turning the hot tub on as I leave from work.
Agreed. But specifically for lawns, I actually wish someone makes much cheaper artificial turfs. Good for aesthetics, better for the environment.. saves hassle time money and water.
This can't be all that far away. At the size of a baseball field, I'm told it's a no-brainer to go turf at this point.
I don't actually know the prices, I'm trusting the college coaches who have mentioned this to me over the last several years (I umpire on the side). One has been on artificial turf for three years, another put turf in this year, and the rest want them.
[+] [-] atdepth|13 years ago|reply
As it turns out there is a patent on sprinkler timers with embedded web servers. The owner of the patent has posted hostile messages threatening legal action on any public facing website that posts about the handful of consumer products that might infringe on their patent.
Here is a link to the patent: http://www.google.com/patents/US7010396
[+] [-] gregable|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notatoad|13 years ago|reply
If you want to poke around (literally) under the hood, you don't get to complain about complexity.
[+] [-] spingu|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] igul222|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dfc|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _delirium|13 years ago|reply
When I looked into it in my own case, it worked out to slightly under 1 kWh/day in standby losses, or about $2/month. I turned off the water heater when I was gone for a month once, and the savings do seem to have been in the noise somewhere. Assuming a Nest-like device to do that for me would cost the same ~$250 that a Nest does, it would take 20 years to recoup the cost of the device, even assuming it was so perfect that it saved all standby losses.
[+] [-] chad_oliver|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shawnz|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] huhtenberg|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] corresation|13 years ago|reply
Aside from the fact that you need the water to remain above a certain level or the water can become dangerous (e.g. legionella), what happens the night you play glow in the dark flag football and decide to take a shower? Or do a load of dishes? Etc.
The Nest "works" (in the absolutely marginal way that it does so) because it makes a middling difference. That would be a stark difference with a hot water tank.
[+] [-] dapak|13 years ago|reply
How's that going to work when the imagery isn't real time?
[+] [-] cbhl|13 years ago|reply
He's just making a wishlist of features; the particular method of implementation doesn't have to match.
[+] [-] jmomo|13 years ago|reply
Even the Nest, with it's simple dial would probably scare them, because smart things scare stupid people.
When I tell them that it's an Internet enabled thermostat, they must immediately think, "OMG CHINA HAXORS GUNNA STEAL MY THERMOSTAT MHZ" because that's what the scare-monger media has been telling them over the last six months.
[+] [-] msutherl|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CamperBob2|13 years ago|reply
Sigh. Yes, that's it. They must be "stupid."
[+] [-] rentzsch|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] msutherl|13 years ago|reply
1. When you want to change some parameter of the physical thing, you have to know where your phone is. You can't just go there.
2. You need to take your phone out of your pocket, navigate to the icon, press it, wait, probably tap a button or two, then slide your fingers along a smooth surface in some sort of complex pattern. Meanwhile, you could have walked downstairs and turned a dial, which you can actually feel with your fingers and you don't need to look at.
Nest makes big awesome dials. I too wish more startups with good designers would find some way to displace common hardware controls that are unfamiliar and complex.
[+] [-] CamperBob2|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iramiller|13 years ago|reply
[1]http://cyber-rain.com
[+] [-] mgraczyk|13 years ago|reply
https://github.com/makilian/Mist
[+] [-] smcguinness|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] snuze|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gms|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CamperBob2|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] supercanuck|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bdwalter|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tzs|13 years ago|reply
Setting the time doesn't appear to be too painful.
[+] [-] mrb|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spingu|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] briancurtin|13 years ago|reply
I don't actually know the prices, I'm trusting the college coaches who have mentioned this to me over the last several years (I umpire on the side). One has been on artificial turf for three years, another put turf in this year, and the rest want them.
[+] [-] rscale|13 years ago|reply