What's going to be hilarious is when the NRA works against homemade guns because they don't actually represent gun owners but gun manufacturers and people finally start getting the point of lobbyists.
Going to get some popcorn and watch y'all fight each other over who gets to have the most toys to accidentally kill their friends and family with.
Yeah, right, 5 million people belong to the NRA because they represent the interests of others. (ADDED: including my father, my oldest nephew, my brothers and myself.)
No, the National Shooting Sports Foundation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Shooting_Sports_Founda...) is the "national trade association for the firearms industry that is based in Newtown, Connecticut in the United States. Formed in 1961, the organization has more than 7,000 members: firearms manufacturers, distributors, retailers, shooting ranges, sportsmen's clubs and media."
Note also this comment of mine: "[...] no gun or ammo manufactures rather obviously means no guns and ammo for us to shoot. We've very interested in their health, we're in the same boat, attack them, you attack us. And the NSSF does quite a bit for gun owners in a whole range of areas including the political, although their focus is of course on the industry."
> Going to get some popcorn and watch y'all fight each other over who gets to have the most toys to accidentally kill their friends and family with.
Yup, that's what these threads inevitably turn into. For some not-so-odd reason, they are really good at making opinionated people come out of the woodwork.
"While I am as impressed as anyone with 3-D printing technology and I believe it has amazing possibilities," said California state senator Leland Yee (D-San Francisco/San Mateo), "we must ensure that it is not used for the wrong purpose with potentially deadly consequences. I plan to introduce legislation that will ensure public safety and stop the manufacturing of guns that are invisible to metal detectors and that can be easily made without a background check."
Why are even bay area politicians so completely dumb about tech. Why can't we get a Jared Polis?
I'm sorry, I seem to have stumbled into bizarro-reddit. On
that other reddit they want to ban guns completely.
No, what's happening is that the government just made
reddit choose between guns or the internet. Guess which
reddit chose?
The US government is run by people who just don't understand the internet.
"stop the manufacturing of guns that are invisible to metal detectors"
Hate to interject a fact here, but this is one of many reasons RKBA types don't respect gun grabbers: their gross ignorance, of which Yee is a choice example. There's already a Federal Undetectable Firearms Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undetectable_Firearms_Act_of_19...):
"The Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988 (Pub.L. 100–649, H.R. 4445, 102 Stat. 3816, enacted November 10, 1988) makes it illegal to manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive any firearm that is not detectable by walk-through metal detectors or has major components that do not generate an accurate image when subjected to inspection by airport x-ray machines."
ADDED: and I've read the design includes a metal insert to satisfy this law.
Because people vote for them. People like politicians that say words like "common sense measures" and "ensure public safety" while taking away rights and freedoms. Who needs those rights and freedoms anyway? Think of the children!
If you think Bay Area people smarter in this regard that any other people, you have to only look up what politicians are doing with budgets, local regulations, pensions, public welfare, public transportation, etc. around Bay Area and you'd see that knowing tech is not the only area politicians are failing.
People do realise that improvised firearms are actually nothing new right? They've been around for ages - indeed 3D printed versions are vastly inferior to their machine shop counter parts which have been used quite effectively in the past for various political and gang related assassinations.
But that's not the same. Printing a 3D gun is relatively easy: download the design, print it, and that's it (more or less). With an improvised firearm, you have to search the design, get the materials, build it, and unless you're experienced the gun probably won't work.
For me, it's like saying "we should not control gunpowder sales because you can make gunpowder at home". Silly example, I know, but you get my point.
"Folks, lets have us a book burnin!" said Obama. Fortunately, it's not 1960 and the information they seek to control is already out and cannot be controlled. The fact that the government would even bother taking it down in an era of torrent networks exemplifies their extreme ignorance of the world we live in.
I didn't realize they had this power, or that they'd exercise it like that... it's just scary to think that the internet is not as free or open as it feels or appears.
Typically they only have the power until a court intervenes. What they do is rely on the fact that many sites they take down or information they have removed stay that way as the operators cannot afford to the court costs. That and they will rely at times on public sympathy by using known "concerned groups" who are nothing more than fronts for various politicians.
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:0ad7b4f1833e01a3f2fa5613d8fc46de622339ac&dn=DefDist+Defcad+Liberator+Printable+Gun for download.
To view it, download Blender (free and opensource 3d software)- http://download.blender.org/ (it allows you to import stl files if you want to view them; or export them from your designs when you want to 3d-print something).
Yep I really think that the printed gun is lame, but now that it is forbidden I want that file! Just for the sake of being able to get it. I don't own a 3d printer yet, and I would never fire from a plastic barrel, ever (unless plastic technology changes quite a lot, which is probable)
From here it looks like in two years it will be completely possible to arm thousands of people on a large demonstration without law enforcement being able to step in. It might add some weight to peoples' opinion on CISPA, INDECT and other fascist inventions as they walk towards the parliament. And that's talking about first world.
Remember Athens, Egypt? Try imagining it a few years from now. People will have affordable real-time mesh communication networks, high quality urban mapping, printed guns and home-made explosives. How exactly would you suppress crowd like that? I say with understanding and empathy, because anything else will hurt.
Meanwhile, I grabbed it off TPB and, judging by the number of seeds, was hardly the first to think of doing so. Why the USG thinks it can put the cat back in the bag is beyond me.
The government's stated reason for taking it down is that making weapons technology available for international download via the internet requires an ITAR license [1]. If he had simply blocked international IP addresses from downloading it, it would not have fallen under the powers of the State Department. I've had to even do ITAR licensing on portable half-racks of off the shelf Dell servers.
This makes me wonder what kind of regulations the 3d printing industry will face. It makes me wonder if 3d printer software might be forced to not print pieces it recognizes as a gun similar to how ink printers won't print images of money. Or some other restrictions on printing It seems unlikely that the government will be happy with people printing anything they want.
The problem is the range of projects aimed at making 3D-printers that can replicate the parts for itself. Any restrictions will see people designing plans for innocent looking components that can be used to assemble a restriction-free 3D-printer. It's a losing proposition to try to restrict this. They may succeed at delaying widescale adoption for a while, but not much more.
1. Government does actually know how the Internet works
2. Makes this attempt, knows it will fail
3. Waits until somebody blows themselves - or somebody else - up with a poorly made, 3D printed gun
4. Government points to failed attempt, argues it does not have the necessary power it needs to prevent these tragedies
5. Government passes bill expanding its power
6. Rinse, repeat
Of course my use of "government" here incorrectly suggests a single entity with a plan. Obviously it does really work that way, but bureaucracies sometimes remind me of organisms with memories, immune systems and, above all, a desire to grow.
I don't have a 3D printer, and really, really don't care whether or not you can print a gun using one. But try to censor information about it, and I'll mirror it on my seedbox for as long as I can, just to piss you off.
If your goal is to stop the spread of the data, perhaps... but if you are caught with one of these guns now, you might also be prosecuted under arms control/export laws.
There seems to be a lot of assumption that the govt is somehow misunderstanding technology or the internet. I doubt they expect to prevent the distribution of those files, or that they even care about the printed gun - as others have said, it's not really anything new as there are existing ways to make one.
What they probably do care about is Cody Wilson trying to build up some sort of cult around 3d weapon printing. He's spent quite a bit of effort trying to provoke the government and prove he can't be stopped. Seems he was wrong.
while I think cody is a repulsive regressive snot, I would risk my life to defend his words. I feel his files are his words.
As for cults, the USG just played directly into Cody's hands... the files have now spread father and wider than if the USG had just ignored them in the first place.
I downloaded the file. I was curious to look at it and I am not all that impressed. It isn't amazing mechanical engineering. And I have a shotgun I bought a block from my house for 99 bucks and there was one page of paperwork and I used a expired ID card to buy it. It isn't hard to get a gun.
I'm actually pretty excited about the plastic gun thing. It is way less fingers that can pull the trigger on guns that are already really easy to get.
Edit: I should that I am for really strict gun laws. My father was killed by a gun that was bought in a pawn shop so if you even save a few people a year it is worth it.
Unless I'm missing something, you will still need to purchase ammo to use in your 3D-printed gun, or else it will be useless. Are the sales of ammunition in the US completely unregulated?
When I worked at a place that sold ammo as far as I can remember we didn't have to track anything special. Guns had all kinds of tracking and restrictions, magazine sizes had restriction (for at least 5 states) but ammo seemed to be just fine.
Since it was an internet store most of the orders were CC but even then we'd have the address we shipped to but it isn't like the ATF came in and asked about ammo. They would ask about the guns and make sure we were compliant there.
I get the nagging feeling that I had heard of some sort of tracking before but I can't recall any detail to search on. For all I know it might have just been a rumor and that increased our sales and that's what I heard.
Almost. Federal law has age limits, 18 except for 21 for handgun ammo. Mail order is entirely unregulated except of course requiring an ORD-M sticker and ground shipment.
Some states have regulations, from one outfit I buy from they would be California, Delaware, D.C., Illinois, Massachusetts, New York and Ohio, they warn you to check your state's laws before buying. Which leaves out a few of the worst states like New Jersey and includes one mostly OK state, Ohio (worst thing about it, unique in the nation, is that in a self-defense case the burden of proof is on you, but it otherwise has shall issue CCW et. al.).
A QR code can store 2,953 bytes. If you were just encoding compressed vertex data it might be enough (depending on the complexity of the model - I haven't seen it myself).
[+] [-] ck2|13 years ago|reply
Going to get some popcorn and watch y'all fight each other over who gets to have the most toys to accidentally kill their friends and family with.
[+] [-] hga|13 years ago|reply
No, the National Shooting Sports Foundation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Shooting_Sports_Founda...) is the "national trade association for the firearms industry that is based in Newtown, Connecticut in the United States. Formed in 1961, the organization has more than 7,000 members: firearms manufacturers, distributors, retailers, shooting ranges, sportsmen's clubs and media."
Here's the most recent thread where I brought this up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5662183
Note also this comment of mine: "[...] no gun or ammo manufactures rather obviously means no guns and ammo for us to shoot. We've very interested in their health, we're in the same boat, attack them, you attack us. And the NSSF does quite a bit for gun owners in a whole range of areas including the political, although their focus is of course on the industry."
[+] [-] duncan_bayne|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shitlord|13 years ago|reply
Yup, that's what these threads inevitably turn into. For some not-so-odd reason, they are really good at making opinionated people come out of the woodwork.
[+] [-] Turing_Machine|13 years ago|reply
And your evidence for this would be?
Be specific.
[+] [-] nostromo|13 years ago|reply
Why are even bay area politicians so completely dumb about tech. Why can't we get a Jared Polis?
[+] [-] temphn|13 years ago|reply
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1e0ybl/3d_gun_bl...
The US government is run by people who just don't understand the internet.[+] [-] hga|13 years ago|reply
Hate to interject a fact here, but this is one of many reasons RKBA types don't respect gun grabbers: their gross ignorance, of which Yee is a choice example. There's already a Federal Undetectable Firearms Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undetectable_Firearms_Act_of_19...):
"The Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988 (Pub.L. 100–649, H.R. 4445, 102 Stat. 3816, enacted November 10, 1988) makes it illegal to manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive any firearm that is not detectable by walk-through metal detectors or has major components that do not generate an accurate image when subjected to inspection by airport x-ray machines."
ADDED: and I've read the design includes a metal insert to satisfy this law.
[+] [-] smsm42|13 years ago|reply
If you think Bay Area people smarter in this regard that any other people, you have to only look up what politicians are doing with budgets, local regulations, pensions, public welfare, public transportation, etc. around Bay Area and you'd see that knowing tech is not the only area politicians are failing.
[+] [-] confluence|13 years ago|reply
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm
They should probably ban flash lights as well.
[+] [-] gjulianm|13 years ago|reply
For me, it's like saying "we should not control gunpowder sales because you can make gunpowder at home". Silly example, I know, but you get my point.
[+] [-] downandout|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vxNsr|13 years ago|reply
I didn't realize they had this power, or that they'd exercise it like that... it's just scary to think that the internet is not as free or open as it feels or appears.
[+] [-] Schlaefer|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shivetya|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mtgx|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] clicks|13 years ago|reply
To view it, download Blender (free and opensource 3d software)- http://download.blender.org/ (it allows you to import stl files if you want to view them; or export them from your designs when you want to 3d-print something).
Also, Github has in-browser STL rendering capability (e.g.: https://github.com/lorennorman/octocat-3d/blob/master/stl/oc... ). It's only a matter of time I guess before we'll all be seeing direct links to individual components.
[+] [-] jobu|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] omegant|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mordae|13 years ago|reply
Remember Athens, Egypt? Try imagining it a few years from now. People will have affordable real-time mesh communication networks, high quality urban mapping, printed guns and home-made explosives. How exactly would you suppress crowd like that? I say with understanding and empathy, because anything else will hurt.
[+] [-] iacvlvs|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] redthrowaway|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hoi|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bane|13 years ago|reply
It's a pain, but it is what it is.
1 - http://pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/itar_official.html
[+] [-] tomjen3|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Vivtek|13 years ago|reply
ITAR is moronic.
[+] [-] kamkazemoose|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vidarh|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rrc|13 years ago|reply
1. Government does actually know how the Internet works
2. Makes this attempt, knows it will fail
3. Waits until somebody blows themselves - or somebody else - up with a poorly made, 3D printed gun
4. Government points to failed attempt, argues it does not have the necessary power it needs to prevent these tragedies
5. Government passes bill expanding its power
6. Rinse, repeat
Of course my use of "government" here incorrectly suggests a single entity with a plan. Obviously it does really work that way, but bureaucracies sometimes remind me of organisms with memories, immune systems and, above all, a desire to grow.
[+] [-] bprater|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cdvonstinkpot|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zackelan|13 years ago|reply
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:6a991291e4c22d379e814be8b4d44f110ac7d1df&dn=DefDist+Defcad.org+AR-15+Lower+Receiver+V5
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1c012de81d94330055acce53f46602e7b510b46c&dn=defcad-repo-master-2013-05-08.zip
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:0ad7b4f1833e01a3f2fa5613d8fc46de622339ac&dn=DefDist+Defcad+Liberator+Printable+Gun
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:c862f0d031e575384acc6bacc2be7d705666d5bf&dn=DefDist+DEFCAD+MEGA+PACK+v4.2+%28Saito%29
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:c37772020eab135e67aac243fb52e750f210a25c&dn=DefDist+DEFCAD+MEGA+PACK+v4.1+%28Carothers%29
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:0f5f7f0a3e5a3e29b56868e19b60f0fe49c17474&dn=DefDist_DEFCAD_MEGA_PACK_v3.3
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:2e26ad5ad4e0f3c7638b41daaaba3aba42b7eadc&dn=3D+gun+print+DEFCAD+MEGA+PACK+v3+with+updates+zip
I don't have a 3D printer, and really, really don't care whether or not you can print a gun using one. But try to censor information about it, and I'll mirror it on my seedbox for as long as I can, just to piss you off.
They can't stop the signal.
[+] [-] __david__|13 years ago|reply
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:0ad7b4f1833e01a3f2fa5613d8fc46de622339ac&dn=DefDist+Defcad+Liberator+Printable+Gun
[+] [-] mbreese|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kevcampb|13 years ago|reply
What they probably do care about is Cody Wilson trying to build up some sort of cult around 3d weapon printing. He's spent quite a bit of effort trying to provoke the government and prove he can't be stopped. Seems he was wrong.
[+] [-] zero_intp|13 years ago|reply
As for cults, the USG just played directly into Cody's hands... the files have now spread father and wider than if the USG had just ignored them in the first place.
[+] [-] JohnGB|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnpowell|13 years ago|reply
I'm actually pretty excited about the plastic gun thing. It is way less fingers that can pull the trigger on guns that are already really easy to get.
Edit: I should that I am for really strict gun laws. My father was killed by a gun that was bought in a pawn shop so if you even save a few people a year it is worth it.
[+] [-] bnc932|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hfsktr|13 years ago|reply
I get the nagging feeling that I had heard of some sort of tracking before but I can't recall any detail to search on. For all I know it might have just been a rumor and that increased our sales and that's what I heard.
Wal-Mart limits sales per customer per day[1].
[1]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732329370457833...
[+] [-] hga|13 years ago|reply
Some states have regulations, from one outfit I buy from they would be California, Delaware, D.C., Illinois, Massachusetts, New York and Ohio, they warn you to check your state's laws before buying. Which leaves out a few of the worst states like New Jersey and includes one mostly OK state, Ohio (worst thing about it, unique in the nation, is that in a self-defense case the burden of proof is on you, but it otherwise has shall issue CCW et. al.).
[+] [-] msgilligan|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jayrobin|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Create|13 years ago|reply
http://ollydbg.de/Paperbak/
[+] [-] jacquesm|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vy8vWJlco|13 years ago|reply
(from http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2013/05/09/technolog... )
That's not especially significant in itself either, only somewhat reassuring for any Canuckois out there wishing to download the models.