My favourite definition of "awkwardness" comes from Steven Pinker: it's the uncomfortable feeling you get when you realize that your concept of your relationship with someone else doesn't match their concept. The intensity of awkwardness roughly corresponds to the magnitude of difference in relationship concepts.
For example, I was at a dinner party recently and greeted a female friend with a handshake. She said, "That was formal," and slight awkwardness ensued. When we were leaving I made sure to give her a hug.
If, at the end of dinner, someone had pulled out their wallet and starting putting money on the table to pay for their meal, the awkwardness would have been much more intense.
There's always my favorite: finding out if it's appropriate to hug someone you want to hug without it being awkward.
My strategy:
Approaching from a bit of a distance with arms down look happy and kind of throw your arms out - half "this could turn into a hug" half "I'm just excited to see you." If they reach out a hand, shake it. If they reciprocate, go in for the hug. If they don't, stay safe with the handshake. The point is to give them time and opportunity to react with body language rather than speech, but not so much time that everyone's stuck thinking about it and upping the awkward factor. If it does get awkward just change the subject and move on. You'll both forget about it in a few minutes.
Either way, I'm with everyone else here in that I believe informal greetings are for informal relationships.
I'm more concerned about the strength of handshakes. I have a bias against anyone who actively squeezes my hand with anything beyond a simple, firm grasp. It comes across as macho, like you've got something to prove, and therefore untrustworthy.
I'd like to point out here that I'm admitting a bias rather than expressing an opinion.
EDIT: at least now I'm approaching something resembling adulthood I don't have the problem of trying to negotiate on the fly which of the various intricate hiphop style handshakes we're executing. Those were the days...
at least now I'm approaching something resembling adulthood I don't have the problem of trying to negotiate on the fly which of the various intricate hiphop style handshakes we're executing.
Don't be so sure. I'm in my 40s and run into this from time to time with informal settings, with full-grown adult males.
I try to adjust the strength of my handshake, depending on a few factors, but mostly related to how hard the other persons will shake my hand.
I'm not trying to match the strength of their shake, just adjust my own. The objective is to make the other person feel more comfortable.
I start with a strength based on some stereotypes (for example, slim women generally have weaker handshakes than big men), but adjust the strength during the shake if I feel my initial strength wasn't right.
Whether this makes the other person actually feel more comfortable is difficult to know, but it makes me feel happy that I've tried.
However, it does mean that I feel a bit sorry for people who have a crushing handshake - what do they think they are doing?
I actually don't know how hard I'm shaking hands. I never go in strong, and I've never felt like a big guy, but I always find it really difficult to tell if I'm applying more strength than I think I am.
Any time someone tries to crush my hand I instantly feel apprehensive of them, as you describe. But perhaps some of them don't actually realise how hard they're squeezing.
I think I'm basically with you on this, though when I receive a particularly brutal handshake a certain scene from Hot Shots[1] involuntarily leaps to mind and I tend to chuckle rather than read too much into the psyche of the shaker.
What is your opinion on the opposite? For me that's far more unsettling. I've initiated handshakes with people whose age and home country meant they didn't really have much experience of the Western "firm handshake", always the limp wrist. I don't know whether to shake it, or draw the hand to my lips as courting a princess. Which, I assume, was not one in your repertoire of "intricate hiphop style handshakes".
Jokes aside, more than one family member had felt it important to instruct me in the art of a good handshake as a matter of gentlemanly conduct from a young age, even long after I'd obviously "got it", and I distinctly recall one of my friends suddenly in his mid-20s going from a pathetic one to a really decent powergrip apparently because his boss had told him after a promotion that he ought to work on his handshake. I say this in defense of the one who "actively squeezes", as it may not be macho-signaling so much as over-correction for their past dead fish.
One trick I've learned to avoid getting your hand crushed: instead of keeping your index finger connected to your middle finger, extend it along the other person's wrist. It gives your hand a stronger shape, and it's harder for the other person to grab your fingers.
Well, it's called a "handshake" for a reason. As opposed to "handmassage" or "handtouch." The terminology itself sets the expectation that you need to hold the other person's hand firmly, and shake it.
If any business is involved, then stick with handshakes.
I've been in a situation where my girlfriend's friends do neither: they do the air cheek kiss thing. Its really confusing because I'm never sure if they are coming in for a hug or an air cheek kiss. Its hard to try to 'take charge' and initiate something otherwise because I start to feel like I'm about to be rude by doing something different and get more awkward.
Its nice to know I'm not the only one with this kind of issue.
I pretty much only ever shake hands when first being introduced to someone, or when concluding some kind of business arrangement.
I have no problem with hugging but I really don't care - I never instigate it with males or females but have no problem returning a hug if one is incoming.
Who has the time to worry about stuff like this? I really don't get it, chances are the people you are imagining taking offense aren't analyzing the interaction at all - let alone as deeply as you are.
I'd strongly advise bosses not to hug their employees except in very rare circumstances, those interactions are much likely to be analyzed by the recipient and any observing coworkers
It's not a genuine worry for me, just something I think about from time to time, when I realize that an interaction (either a hand shake or a hug) was slightly awkward for one of the parties.
Other people don't need to give something the same amount of attention that I do for it to become a meaningful subject of thought for me. I also don't think that people generally take offense when (say) I give them a handshake instead of a hug, or the other way around. At worst, it creates some momentary awkwardness. All that said, it's still interesting.
Some people are insecure when they're not 100% sure of the rules for social interaction. They don't want to come off as an asshole who pays no mind to social niceties or as someone who has Aspbergers and doesn't recognize social cues.
When I run into a male acquaintance, I know exactly how to greet him: shake his hand. Doesn’t matter how long we’ve known each other. I even shake my dad’s hand.
Maybe I'm too friendly or completely oblivious to how socially awkward and creepy I am, but I hug many of my close male friends, even though I am a 'cisgendered heterosexual male.' In a way I am saddened that the author is not on 'hugging terms' with is own father.
Perhaps he is overthinking the trivial niceties of social interactions? In my mind, it's never been a Big Deal. Do what comes naturally, Anything is only as awkward you make it.
After a few misguided attempts at executing the 'urban greeting,' I have since made a conscious effort to demonstrate clear intent upon encountering an acquaintance. In other words, I make sure my hand is clearly oriented in either handshake or urban greeting ready position.
Simply put, it's like partner dancing - one must lead for the other to follow, or else you'll end up with the 'ball-and-socket' when one goes for the fist bump and the other for the handshake/high five.
Yeah, I hug loads of my male friends too, and, like you, it's all about following their cues (and providing your own). Interestingly, my Dad isn't comfortable with hugging men at all, so I don't force him into it. What I find works really well with him is the handshake + shoulder pat + hold. It's basically half a hug, but he's okay with it. Maybe the author of the blog post should try that.
Yes, personally, I have a much more difficult time figuring out which bro handshake is about to go down in an informal setting...which has resulted in some terrible awkwardness. It is much easier to read a female coworker's body language in the workplace to tell if she likes hugs or not.
Would you hug Hilary Clinton if you’ve met her on two or three different occasions? Of course not. And it’s the same for the female CEO of a major bank. So then, why would you hug a female work associate that you’ve only met twice?
Answer: you don’t hug Mrs. Clinton or the female CEO because you respect them too much.
Your feelings probably come from the idea that "Men don’t do this with other men". They do, just not in your social group or culture. It's not disrespectful; if you don't really know each other it's awkward at worst.
Simple test: would you go get coffee with this person, with no business interests? Yes) Hug for men, hug+cheek-kiss for women, No) Hand-shake.
When I came to Vienna, the big city, being a slightly awkward nerd, it took serious adjustment to the fact that all male/female and female/female greetings of people that know each other fairly well involved cheek kissing (twice, starting with the right cheeks).
But I got used to it, and even learned different forms (twice, starting left - dunno where high chance for funny misunderstandings, thrice, starting right - Serbia iirc).
I greet everybody with a Handshake when I meet them the first time but can say the most universal rule is just to be relaxed about it.
People that are so uptight to have a bias against someone where the first greeting results into some awkwardness through cultural differences (where cultural differences cann also easily occur even within the same city), is not someone I want to be acquainted most of the time.
Contrary I even find a little misunderstanding about greeting protocol on a first meeting being a good ice breaker.
For business purposes I would of course always plead for erring on the conservative side ;) handshakes work well most of the time.
I have been told off more than once for not hugging women. That said, the kiss-on-the cheek thing is very popular in continental Europe for acquaintances.
The only strangers I make a point of hugging are Germans, just to freak them out!
But seriously, as long as you greet sincerely with any action, you are highly unlikely to cause offense. Just note their reaction for future reference after.
More importantly is how much personal space you give them after that point. A one-off strange greeting is almost always acceptable; occupying someone's personal space for an extended time is another matter entirely...
Several years back I was in a meeting with a very extroverted Italian man, well known to the group and a VP of something or other. He was handing out awards of some sort, and doing the extroverted Italian huggy thing. It was endearing, and most of the women were game, except one towards the end who was nervous about it. The VP read her body language and adjusted to handshake and a happy apology with contrite head bobbing and hand waving.
I was next, and on a whim called out "I'll hug you, Joe," and did so with gusto, to much laughter from the room. It was shocking, as I'm the guy who does nothing with anyone. No handshake, no hug, just radiating a pleasant uncomfortableness.
There are only two people I habitually hug, though, my wife and my father-in-law; the latter being much less awkward than my use of a semicolon. He's the Kramer to my Soup Nazi, and we get along famously for no apparent reason (aside from a common interest in his daughter's welfare, that is).
This reminds me of the awkwardness of seeing someone you sort-of know in passing and deciding whether to stop and chat with them or just say "Hey! How ya doing?" and continue walking.
The social norm for Berlin would be for the higher-up to initiate the handshake, regardless of gender. This is especially true on first introduction, otherwise, the arriving person usually offers their hand first.
What I find even more inappropriate is random women I talked to once suddenly thinking it is necessary to hug me. Really, no. We can shake hands if you insist, but a hug is an absolutely no-go unless you are closer than close family.
Some people are just huggers. As a fan of hugs I approve of people who get down to hugging quickly, though I understand why non-huggers would be squicked out by that.
If that wigs you out, I have a particular friend group for whom kissing becomes a thing almost immediately after they've met you. The first time it happens it can be absurdly disorienting.
To make it even more complicated, people from different counties react differently to hugging. Taiwanese, for example, often seem be quite uncomfortable with it.
In Argentina, everyone kisses once on the cheek, including between men. Certainly a culture shock at first, put it avoids all the ambiguity in NA/Europe.
Edit: I should say I only know that to be true in the BsA area. Not sure about other provinces.
Male friends or business contacts = handshake.
Female on first contact or in any business context = handshake.
Female acquaintance I don't know particularly well = smile and Hi before there's any ambiguity.
Female friend or reasonable acquaintance (e.g., wife's friend) = kiss on the cheek (each side with female relatives).
Are the hugs being discussed in this thread actual hugs? Or going in close as though to kiss on the cheek, but not actually touching cheeks? Or more like the way male athletes embrace each other?
If you act awkwardly or second-guess, it'll be awkward. If you end up in one of those weird situations where you half handshake and half kiss or confuse kissing sides and somehow brush lips, just laugh it off. "Well, I screwed that up!"
Granted, I am the kind of girl who reads Hacker News, but, for what it's worth, it's often awkward for us, too. For men or women! Hug or handshake? Or wacky Euro kiss thing? I find myself hugging after first meet, unless we're at work or in a professional context, in which case I default to handshake. The awkwardness occurs at, for example, work parties, where the party leads me to default to hug, but then I second guess at the last moment, realizing I normally only interact with so-and-so professionally. In the end, I usually settle on, oh-well-he/she-will-adapt and hug. Act with confidence, and any potential awkwardness washes away...
> Act with confidence, and any potential awkwardness washes away...
Please, no. Not everyone wants to hug you, not everyone wants to kiss you, not everyone wants to have sex with you. Default to no physical contact unless it is very clear that both parties are happy with that contact. Acting with confidence is simply pressuring the other party into agreeing.
Do not hug someone without asking first. Also, don't do the open-arms-moving-in-and-then-asking-for-a-hug. People who might feel uncomfortable hugging you now feel socially forced to. Ask the first time, and ask if you can hug them again in the future.
If you're really feeling awkward, start out with a hand wave as you approach the person... either they'll wave back, or try to initiate a handshake/hug with you. Either way it's a good enough greeting for friends and co-workers alike.
This is cultural, of course. In Latin America the cheek kiss is expected, and if you don't give it it's considered rude.
In the UK (or at least among people I know, both personally and in work circles), asking if you can hug someone would be just about the most awkward thing you can do.
I don't really have any advice on a better answer, for me it just... feels natural. For both work and personal, both men and women, there are some who I'd hug, some a kiss on the cheek (women only for this one - except a few people in France/Belgium I work with), others whose hand I'd shake every time I see them and others who I'd just greet verbally. Same with female. Never stopped to think about it, or discussed it, just happens.
Nope. I usually know when a hug will be good and I'm ready to be wrong. I'm not going to pussyfoot my way through every slightly-more-intimate interaction I take in this life.
[+] [-] RyanMcGreal|13 years ago|reply
For example, I was at a dinner party recently and greeted a female friend with a handshake. She said, "That was formal," and slight awkwardness ensued. When we were leaving I made sure to give her a hug.
If, at the end of dinner, someone had pulled out their wallet and starting putting money on the table to pay for their meal, the awkwardness would have been much more intense.
[+] [-] benjamincburns|13 years ago|reply
My strategy: Approaching from a bit of a distance with arms down look happy and kind of throw your arms out - half "this could turn into a hug" half "I'm just excited to see you." If they reach out a hand, shake it. If they reciprocate, go in for the hug. If they don't, stay safe with the handshake. The point is to give them time and opportunity to react with body language rather than speech, but not so much time that everyone's stuck thinking about it and upping the awkward factor. If it does get awkward just change the subject and move on. You'll both forget about it in a few minutes.
Either way, I'm with everyone else here in that I believe informal greetings are for informal relationships.
[+] [-] Rickasaurus|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JonnieCache|13 years ago|reply
I'd like to point out here that I'm admitting a bias rather than expressing an opinion.
EDIT: at least now I'm approaching something resembling adulthood I don't have the problem of trying to negotiate on the fly which of the various intricate hiphop style handshakes we're executing. Those were the days...
[+] [-] melvinmt|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikestew|13 years ago|reply
Don't be so sure. I'm in my 40s and run into this from time to time with informal settings, with full-grown adult males.
[+] [-] cjg|13 years ago|reply
I'm not trying to match the strength of their shake, just adjust my own. The objective is to make the other person feel more comfortable.
I start with a strength based on some stereotypes (for example, slim women generally have weaker handshakes than big men), but adjust the strength during the shake if I feel my initial strength wasn't right.
Whether this makes the other person actually feel more comfortable is difficult to know, but it makes me feel happy that I've tried.
However, it does mean that I feel a bit sorry for people who have a crushing handshake - what do they think they are doing?
[+] [-] robotmay|13 years ago|reply
Any time someone tries to crush my hand I instantly feel apprehensive of them, as you describe. But perhaps some of them don't actually realise how hard they're squeezing.
[+] [-] JDGM|13 years ago|reply
What is your opinion on the opposite? For me that's far more unsettling. I've initiated handshakes with people whose age and home country meant they didn't really have much experience of the Western "firm handshake", always the limp wrist. I don't know whether to shake it, or draw the hand to my lips as courting a princess. Which, I assume, was not one in your repertoire of "intricate hiphop style handshakes".
Jokes aside, more than one family member had felt it important to instruct me in the art of a good handshake as a matter of gentlemanly conduct from a young age, even long after I'd obviously "got it", and I distinctly recall one of my friends suddenly in his mid-20s going from a pathetic one to a really decent powergrip apparently because his boss had told him after a promotion that he ought to work on his handshake. I say this in defense of the one who "actively squeezes", as it may not be macho-signaling so much as over-correction for their past dead fish.
[1] http://youtu.be/HQmBJONo5_E?t=16m47s
[+] [-] graeme|13 years ago|reply
I generally try to match my handshake to the person I'm shaking, but I feel a shiver of disgust when given a limp hand.
I feel the most trust towards someone with a firm, strong grip.
The only handshake I dislike is the one that literally crushes your hand. But those are pretty rare, and distinct from a firm grip.
I don't actually know which handshake style tends to be most popular.
[+] [-] tenfingers|13 years ago|reply
In some places a good grasp is more of an indication of attentive communication (as in "I'm listening/ready") than "macho-ism" of any form.
I've rarely seen strong grasps as an indicator of "macho" except in early adulthood/teens, where it's mostly a form of play.
On the contrary, a very flimsy grasp gives you exactly the opposite: the handshake becomes an afterthought.
[+] [-] LargeWu|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] enraged_camel|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mimiflynn|13 years ago|reply
I've been in a situation where my girlfriend's friends do neither: they do the air cheek kiss thing. Its really confusing because I'm never sure if they are coming in for a hug or an air cheek kiss. Its hard to try to 'take charge' and initiate something otherwise because I start to feel like I'm about to be rude by doing something different and get more awkward.
Its nice to know I'm not the only one with this kind of issue.
[+] [-] antoko|13 years ago|reply
I have no problem with hugging but I really don't care - I never instigate it with males or females but have no problem returning a hug if one is incoming.
Who has the time to worry about stuff like this? I really don't get it, chances are the people you are imagining taking offense aren't analyzing the interaction at all - let alone as deeply as you are.
I'd strongly advise bosses not to hug their employees except in very rare circumstances, those interactions are much likely to be analyzed by the recipient and any observing coworkers
I'm a married male for the record.
[+] [-] davidkatz|13 years ago|reply
Other people don't need to give something the same amount of attention that I do for it to become a meaningful subject of thought for me. I also don't think that people generally take offense when (say) I give them a handshake instead of a hug, or the other way around. At worst, it creates some momentary awkwardness. All that said, it's still interesting.
[+] [-] pyrocat|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] twrkit|13 years ago|reply
Maybe I'm too friendly or completely oblivious to how socially awkward and creepy I am, but I hug many of my close male friends, even though I am a 'cisgendered heterosexual male.' In a way I am saddened that the author is not on 'hugging terms' with is own father.
Perhaps he is overthinking the trivial niceties of social interactions? In my mind, it's never been a Big Deal. Do what comes naturally, Anything is only as awkward you make it.
After a few misguided attempts at executing the 'urban greeting,' I have since made a conscious effort to demonstrate clear intent upon encountering an acquaintance. In other words, I make sure my hand is clearly oriented in either handshake or urban greeting ready position.
Simply put, it's like partner dancing - one must lead for the other to follow, or else you'll end up with the 'ball-and-socket' when one goes for the fist bump and the other for the handshake/high five.
[+] [-] gertertsgsdfa|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] benatkin|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bjhoops1|13 years ago|reply
I'll never forget the time I accidentally gave my dentist a bro shake. You should have seen how excited he got. Poor lonely dentists...
[+] [-] kvcrawford|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danielrm26|13 years ago|reply
Answer: you don’t hug Mrs. Clinton or the female CEO because you respect them too much.
Now, notice that this is how men treat ALL males.
http://danielmiessler.com/blog/on-hugs-vs-handshakes-for-fem...
[+] [-] ricardobeat|13 years ago|reply
Simple test: would you go get coffee with this person, with no business interests? Yes) Hug for men, hug+cheek-kiss for women, No) Hand-shake.
Disclaimer: I'm from Brazil.
[+] [-] DoubleMalt|13 years ago|reply
But I got used to it, and even learned different forms (twice, starting left - dunno where high chance for funny misunderstandings, thrice, starting right - Serbia iirc).
I greet everybody with a Handshake when I meet them the first time but can say the most universal rule is just to be relaxed about it.
People that are so uptight to have a bias against someone where the first greeting results into some awkwardness through cultural differences (where cultural differences cann also easily occur even within the same city), is not someone I want to be acquainted most of the time.
Contrary I even find a little misunderstanding about greeting protocol on a first meeting being a good ice breaker.
For business purposes I would of course always plead for erring on the conservative side ;) handshakes work well most of the time.
[+] [-] codfrantic|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drucken|13 years ago|reply
The only strangers I make a point of hugging are Germans, just to freak them out!
But seriously, as long as you greet sincerely with any action, you are highly unlikely to cause offense. Just note their reaction for future reference after.
More importantly is how much personal space you give them after that point. A one-off strange greeting is almost always acceptable; occupying someone's personal space for an extended time is another matter entirely...
[+] [-] ceautery|13 years ago|reply
I was next, and on a whim called out "I'll hug you, Joe," and did so with gusto, to much laughter from the room. It was shocking, as I'm the guy who does nothing with anyone. No handshake, no hug, just radiating a pleasant uncomfortableness.
There are only two people I habitually hug, though, my wife and my father-in-law; the latter being much less awkward than my use of a semicolon. He's the Kramer to my Soup Nazi, and we get along famously for no apparent reason (aside from a common interest in his daughter's welfare, that is).
[+] [-] carlyle4545|13 years ago|reply
The "stop and chat" dilemma immortalized by Larry David: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f2LJXz-l2k
[+] [-] claudius|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] praptak|13 years ago|reply
The norm doesn't specify the timeout but to me it comes naturally to just nod and say hello after the "moment"[2] I am convinced the timeout happened.
[1] It certainly is in Poland and I am fairly convinced about Western Europe too
[2] About one and a half igniseconds [3]
[3] www.unwords.com/unword/ignisecond.html
[+] [-] claudius|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Millennium|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] abrichr|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] claudius|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unalone|13 years ago|reply
If that wigs you out, I have a particular friend group for whom kissing becomes a thing almost immediately after they've met you. The first time it happens it can be absurdly disorienting.
[+] [-] ducksauz|13 years ago|reply
As for the handshake, go with Ron Swanson's advise: Firm, Dry, 3 seconds.
[+] [-] stargazer-3|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] heyitsnick|13 years ago|reply
Edit: I should say I only know that to be true in the BsA area. Not sure about other provinces.
[+] [-] prawn|13 years ago|reply
If you act awkwardly or second-guess, it'll be awkward. If you end up in one of those weird situations where you half handshake and half kiss or confuse kissing sides and somehow brush lips, just laugh it off. "Well, I screwed that up!"
(I'm in Australia.)
[+] [-] karmel|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] claudius|13 years ago|reply
Please, no. Not everyone wants to hug you, not everyone wants to kiss you, not everyone wants to have sex with you. Default to no physical contact unless it is very clear that both parties are happy with that contact. Acting with confidence is simply pressuring the other party into agreeing.
[+] [-] peterwwillis|13 years ago|reply
If you're really feeling awkward, start out with a hand wave as you approach the person... either they'll wave back, or try to initiate a handshake/hug with you. Either way it's a good enough greeting for friends and co-workers alike.
This is cultural, of course. In Latin America the cheek kiss is expected, and if you don't give it it's considered rude.
[+] [-] corin_|13 years ago|reply
I don't really have any advice on a better answer, for me it just... feels natural. For both work and personal, both men and women, there are some who I'd hug, some a kiss on the cheek (women only for this one - except a few people in France/Belgium I work with), others whose hand I'd shake every time I see them and others who I'd just greet verbally. Same with female. Never stopped to think about it, or discussed it, just happens.
[+] [-] civilian|13 years ago|reply
Nope. I usually know when a hug will be good and I'm ready to be wrong. I'm not going to pussyfoot my way through every slightly-more-intimate interaction I take in this life.
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
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