European startup scenes compared

[swombat]

This is just an extract from the Telefonica startup ecosystem report that can be found here: http://blog.digital.telefonica.com/?press-release=country-hi...

It's an interesting report, though unless there's actionable information in this for you (there is for me, actually), it's probably infoporn rather than anything worth reading...

[jmcdowell]

Quick question: Do people think the rising cost of living in a place like London will have a negative effect on start ups?

Currently it doesn't look like it from that report but I'm currently on an intern's wage and have struggled to live here, I can only imagine how hard it is to potentially work for a small wage maybe even just equity whilst being a bit older than I am and potentially more responsibilities.

[slgeorge]

To some degree the answer depends on what you need from a physical location. Some of the benefits you get with London:

* Density of people with expertise - easy to hire or find people with specialist skills

* Variety of talent levels - getting people at the right level if you're building an extended team

* Availability of people with similar experiences - support groups; shared space

* Availability of support services - legal, financial, VC

* Supportive employment and tax region - UK rather than London specific

* Large market for testing and product validation - UK is both a gateway to Europe and has similarities to the US if you're moving your product from Europe

* Language and time zone advantageous if you are multi-region

If you're a light-weight start-up with a small team that has all the skills to create and bring the product to market then it may be less important.

If you're likely to grow into a small company (say you're VC backed) and need lots of different skills then London has advantages - these are the same advantages any large city or Silicon Valley has and they vary to degrees. Note that in that scenario direct cost of salary is only one element in the total cost of running the business.

[bornhuetter]

I'm planning a startup in the next couple of years, and the high cost of living in London is making me lean toward Cambridge over London.

[freyfogle]

Yes. In London it is possible, though perhaps not enjoyable, to live on a low wage. Many people from around the world do it for a few years. They come to London and learn a lot. If you are trying to throw something together quickly with a few people that's very doable in London.

The problem comes when your company needs to hire and retain senior people - ie people who have families, mortgages, etc. The cost and pain of living in London makes it very hard to keep and motivate those people for extended periods. The infrastructure means they either need to suffer a difficult expensive commute (or work remotely, at which point you have to ask why your business is in London) or be paid massively to live in the center.

[nicholassmith]

Possibly, I live in the North and our rent and general life cost is significantly lower, however the start up scene is still slowly coming into life. It seems at the moment London is the place to be, but because there's significantly less funding the likelihood of survival drops accordingly, but the primary investors are there so being based outside could potentially go against you.

[antninja]

I'm pretty sure that when they give the name of a city, they include the suburbs as well. Paris is a huge metropolis with some cheap areas but it's small and overpriced if you exclude the suburbs.

[jmcdowell]

N.B. I have heard the cost of living in other European cities is a lot lower which is why I thought they would be in a similar shape to London before reading that article.

[corford]

I'd say the UK certainly has the lead in Europe in terms of talent pool size, legal services, tax regime and government support.

I'll shortly be moving back to there and incorporating a company for my bootstrapped startup. I live in France at the moment and the decision to move and kick it off from the UK was a no brainer.

One of the major attractions is the SEIS scheme and the potential this gives me to attract funding via a crowd funding platform like http://www.crowdcube.com This sort of startup friendly business environment just doesn't exist anywhere else in Europe (at least that I'm aware of).

Edit: in connection to the above, would love to know if any UK HNers have had any experience with http://www.vwv.co.uk/ ? I need some legal advice before I incorporate and I've heard they're good and very startup friendly.

[pilooch]

Interested in the reasons behind the 'no brainer' move. We're in France, and the regime for startups, with innovation tax cuts and other security nets is pretty favorable. The engineers are pretty good too!

[nuromancer]

Last time I checked Tel Aviv is in the Middle East not Europe.

[j_col]

> As the only “European” startup hub, Tel Aviv...

Indeed! Use of quotes in original piece says it all.

[yyqux]

Tel Aviv is in Europe now?

[duggan]

Enough to be in the Eurovision (it's a more complex question than you might imagine).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93European_Union_r...

[1timeposter]

Israel tags along several European events such as football championships, Eurovision etc. Partially I suspect it's because they don't have the necessary relationship with their neighbours to be included in a more regional context.

[Samuel_Michon]

Similarly, what continents do Istanbul and St. Petersburg belong to?

Cyprus is an EU member state, but geographically, it is in Asia.

[noloqy]

Apparently Asia doesn't want it anymore.

[Peroni]

There's no question that London is suffering from a funding gap however some of the excerpts seem incredibly difficult to quantify:

They are more motivated by building a great product than by changing the world compared to SV entrepreneurs

I also don't really understand how a preference towards mobile orientated start-ups is indicative of quality:

London has been slow in adopting mobile as a new trend. It has 30% less startups than SV or NYC in the mobile space

[LeonidasXIV]

Because the less it is like SV the less intersting it is. I am joking obviously, but I found the article strange: it compares all these places with the be-all-end-all bay area and obviously concludes that it is not the same. It doesn't seem to consider that being different can also be an advantage.

[nicholassmith]

Depending on what happens with UK politics over the next 3-5 years that might change dramatically due to the constant drum beating on immigration and EU reforms.

[freyfogle]

Agree, as an non-British EU company founder based in London I can not think of a better way to discourage investment. Berlin will be the beneficiary.

[qompiler]

Tel Aviv scores fairly high in the funding and support index but poor on the performance and trendsetter index. Kind of proves the point that $ isn't all it takes but sure helps you become visible.

[croisillon]

The Berlin pin looks more like Bremen.