Very interesting concept! How do food & restuarant laws apply in Europe? I know here in the US, restaurants need regular inspections by the local board of health. And restaurant is defined as "a facility that prepares and sells food directly to consumers for immediate consumption."
Presumably if people are paying the host, that host is now operating a restaurant. I can already see the food lobby going crazy over this one in the US.
I think this is just another way it's "like AirBnB". I assert the vast majority of AirBnB rentals break either local laws regarding guest houses or hotels, and/or the provisions of the lease in rented accommodation.
Perhaps this service can spare itself from liability from the unlicensed action of its users by including in the ToS "you must have all valid licenses required by your jurisdiction if you choose to charge for hosting a meal".
Edit: I would imagine thing become even more complicated if guests receive wine or other alcoholic drinks as part of the meal.
Did you see the thread in HN yesterday about the legal issues that AirBNB is having with various municipalities? That's nothing compared with what this company (and others like it) will have to deal with. I have to imagine that the health- and food-inspection departments in most states and cities are very tough. Plus, you might need to get insurance for everything from "patrons" getting sick, to kitchen fires. I don't even know if most homeowner insurance would cover the cost of damage if you were using your kitchen for commercial purposes and quantities.
And so on, and so on. As with AirBNB, I expect that we'll eventually find a middle ground between complete anarchy and stifling regulations. But on the face of it, operating a restaurant from your house sounds like a rat's nest (no pun intended) of financial and legal issues to deal with.
This might be an American-only thing, though. In Israel (where I live), many people run small catering companies (albeit not restaurants) from their home kitchens. Perhaps the government has rules about such things, but they aren't ever enforced. and in France, I can't imagine the government stopping people from cooking and serving (and selling) high-quality food.
I would think there would be a lot of trouble with this in the UK, because if you're serving food to people for money then you need hygiene certification for the folks preparing the food and hygiene assessments for the preparation areas, at the very least.
It's a nice idea, but like AirBnB it will probably fall foul of a lot of consumer protection laws, and a lot of consumer protection laws really are there for good reasons.
This. I had the exact same idea (although locally oriented) about a year ago, but then I found out that all places that serve food commercially in the Netherlands require that someone on the staff is in possession of a "Social Hygiene Diploma"[1] and the health services would shut down basically anyone who attempted to do this.
I hope you guys do well, I think there's a lot of social value in this concept. Food can bring people together in special ways.
As many people have pointed out - there's a lot of potential problems and legislation that could get in the way. What constantly impresses me is that people can push right through and solve these seemingly insurmountable issues. I'm sure if AirBnB was first posted here they'd get back 50 reasons why it can't work.
Apparently just inviting people over on a regular basis is grounds for getting shut down in NYC.
"After hosting dinner parties for strangers in their own apartment, the NYC Department of Health took notice and shut them down, but Tamy and Felipe decided to open a restaurant in SOHO."
For those who want to know the tech stack.
We are running on heroku(the european datacenter)[1] and amazon S3, we use RoR with some pretty nice gems(active admin, devise, ...) and Jquery for the JS.
For metric we use Mixpanel and Google Analytics. For our emails we use Amazon and Mailjet.
"AirBnBForY. AirBnBforY specializes in incubating companies that are the "AirBnB" for their respective industries (e.g. "The AirBnB for pantry space" and "The AirBnB for condiments" (A lot of people aren't making full use of their mustard, ketchup, and other condiments. AirDiments creates a marketplace by which people can use each others condiments)."
I love this idea and it seems like a great way to bring people together in real life through technology. Like others though I think this could have trouble with laws and probably to a greater extent than AirBnB. How liable is the host if there is an food poisoning incident for example? Is Cookening liable at all?
In the terms and conditions, we're explaining Cookening is the third party. That's also why we're using a payment system that makes the money go directly from user to user, even if payment is made on our website.
That said, our job is also to make sure everything goes well, and if something happens, we'll have to handle it.
A question: I'm curious whether you put a lot of consideration into the review system?
Asking hosts to invite strangers over and publicly rate their hospitality, cooking, and home is asking a lot. Yes, Airbnb does something similar, but renting a room feels like more of a business transaction. Having dinner guests share a meal is more personal and intimate - and it would be easier for hosts to take reviews personally.
Also, how will you deal with hyper-critical guests who leave mostly negative reviews? A few negative "foodies" like this could be a morale crusher for early hosts.
This is a very good remark. That's the reason why we have this three notes : food, place and hospitality. As you see, we're asking guests to review the hospitality, not the person.
As always, it is very important to us that guest expectations before any booking are the right ones: hosts do not commit on serving food like in a restaurant, they commit it is home made, they commit on a meal structure (number of courses) and they'll respect food specifics mentionned by their guests.
One thing you guys should be worried about is the effort it takes for someone to host. Airbnb can be as much or little time and work intensive as the host likes. That makes it easy to host. With hosting a meal, it's always going to be time and work intensive, which limits the number of people that would be willing to do it on a continual basis.
Solve that, and you might have something interesting on hand.
That's precisely where the airbnb analogy breaks down. One of the most powerful aspects of airbnb is the ability for a host to earn good money with little time/effort. Too many companies forget to copy that feature when building an "airbnb for X".
Cool idea. I wouldn't really want to eat food prepared by someone I didn't know if that food/kitchen isn't subject to health inspections. The answer to the "What about the hygiene?" FAQ doesn't do enough to assuage my fears in this regard.
It says tables are "manually reviewed by the team". Reviewed with the stringent standards of the health dept?
Thanks for the feedback! It means we have to improve the FAQ on this part.
Hosts cook and eat with their guests, so it's a very good way to be sure about the quality: First because hosts eat it as well, second because they'll have a direct feedback, and it's not very pleasant to serve bad food to people when they're eating with you.
In fact, we think there's a fear of a risk more than a real risk. There's less risk to eat something that has been cooked at home, in smal quantities, than something in a big restaurant with food that has stayed in a fridge for several weeks...
Actually, have you often been sick when invited by friend or family?
Reviews we're doing are based on information provided by hosts (description, pictures), as well as email or phone contact if needed. And the review system will help. Risk averse foodies will eat with hosts with no reviews, less risk averse will go to hosts that already have a good reputation on the system.
This is so weird that it has to work. My first reaction was that it was dumb and no-one would do it, but this is exactly the first reaction to most things that turned out to be success. I definitely wish you all the best.
Plus I see you are focused on Europe, which is probably place where good cuisine is highly valued.
It's very smart of Cookening to provide information about WHY users should connect with Facebook. As a privacy conscious user, I find that this is missing from many sites. I might be willing to share my information, but you have to explain what's in it for me in a straight-forward way.
I hope this catches fire like Airbnb! At least here in Finland "Restaurant Day" [1] has already become somewhat of an institution, so I bet there's potential for Cookening too!
A minor detail: I'd appreciate the _full_ price to be displayed with a side note like "including Cookening service free 3€".
Or is the service fee per group? In that case it could be something like: "15€ per guest + 3€ Cookening service fee per group"
With the current layout the service fee feels almost hidden.
We currently have hosts in Chile, Canada, ... so Asia should come soon. Basically as soon as someone open a table in Asia it's done.
If you are asking about our marketing strategy, I don't know yet.
This reminds me a lot of the phenomenon of Pop-up Restaurants[1]; your site is very much like a booking interface for pop-ups. Good luck, I love the concept.
I've thought about launching an idea like this in the US. After doing some research, it proved to be too difficult to execute because of foodservice regulations and ensuring safety.
I like your concept, especially emphasizing the benefits of home cooking. Here are some things I think you should think carefully about:
-how do you ensure safety on both ends (buyer and seller)?
-why would someone want to use your platform instead of doing their own underground restaurant?
-how do you vet hosts? Is there a vetting process for hosts?
-how do you ensure a pleasant group meal dynamic?
Would love to chat more about this if would like. This is an idea I would really, really like to see succeed!
Underground food sharing (trust).
Make it "karma points" (not cash) ... important to be unregulated, like the "volunteer" payments with SideCar.
Imagine tens of thousands of locations in each city, with most people's points netting to near-zero. In other words, you give as much as you take. Cooking vs eating - self-cancelling at nearly 50/50.
Open trade in points, reputation scores, and trust. People without time to cook may barter other reputations.
A vast cashless ecosystem.
Cuisine and location both, discovery via online maps.
Any home, any vehicle, anywhere that trust, reputation, and freedom may actually develop.
Personally, I believe "regulation" leads to the unsafe (thinks McDonalds) food ecosystem we have now.
Why is it that people who come up with these thought experiments can never resist talking about their beliefs?
Do you have a plan of implementation? A seed network to beat the cold start problem? An actual, non-exploitable prototype for aiding discovery? A way to demonstrate trustworthiness? Survey results to show enough people willing to cook in order to provide sufficient supply to meet demand?
I love how no one (yet) on this thread took this as an opportunity to trash france and it's startups. A sign of a very successful launch! Congrats to the cookening team. Love the idea. Will use next time I'm in Paris!
I love this idea but don't like the idea of paying.
How about instead of paying money for the meal, have an option where you can host the hosts in return at your place.
May be this doesn't belong in this app or may be it does..
This is an exciting concept that has been tackled by many teams, few of which have yet been able to reach significant scale. But I believe it will happen.
Feastly (http://eatfeastly.com/) is a similar approach that is active in the US. (I'm an advisor)
The restaurant industry is massive (in the US, it's three times the size of the accommodations industry) so winning even a small slice is a win.
This is somewhat off-topic, but it seems kind of odd that they went with a "ly" name but didn't use that TLD, especially since "feastly" doesn't make a lot of sense except to associate with that trend.
It looks like a cool service though, I requested an invite.
[+] [-] enoptix|13 years ago|reply
Presumably if people are paying the host, that host is now operating a restaurant. I can already see the food lobby going crazy over this one in the US.
[+] [-] lenazegher|13 years ago|reply
Perhaps this service can spare itself from liability from the unlicensed action of its users by including in the ToS "you must have all valid licenses required by your jurisdiction if you choose to charge for hosting a meal".
Edit: I would imagine thing become even more complicated if guests receive wine or other alcoholic drinks as part of the meal.
[+] [-] reuven|13 years ago|reply
And so on, and so on. As with AirBNB, I expect that we'll eventually find a middle ground between complete anarchy and stifling regulations. But on the face of it, operating a restaurant from your house sounds like a rat's nest (no pun intended) of financial and legal issues to deal with.
This might be an American-only thing, though. In Israel (where I live), many people run small catering companies (albeit not restaurants) from their home kitchens. Perhaps the government has rules about such things, but they aren't ever enforced. and in France, I can't imagine the government stopping people from cooking and serving (and selling) high-quality food.
We'll see, I guess...
[+] [-] Nursie|13 years ago|reply
It's a nice idea, but like AirBnB it will probably fall foul of a lot of consumer protection laws, and a lot of consumer protection laws really are there for good reasons.
[+] [-] ArikBe|13 years ago|reply
I hope you guys do well, I think there's a lot of social value in this concept. Food can bring people together in special ways.
[1] http://www.sho-horeca.nl/cursussen/spoedcursus-sociale-hygie...
[+] [-] jordn|13 years ago|reply
As many people have pointed out - there's a lot of potential problems and legislation that could get in the way. What constantly impresses me is that people can push right through and solve these seemingly insurmountable issues. I'm sure if AirBnB was first posted here they'd get back 50 reasons why it can't work.
[+] [-] greggman|13 years ago|reply
"After hosting dinner parties for strangers in their own apartment, the NYC Department of Health took notice and shut them down, but Tamy and Felipe decided to open a restaurant in SOHO."
https://vimeo.com/45360751
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
The are on the european DC because of the Safe Harbor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Safe_Harbor_Priva...
[+] [-] jcase|13 years ago|reply
[1] https://blog.heroku.com/archives/2013/4/24/europe-region (near the bottom).
[+] [-] Pyramids|13 years ago|reply
Is infrastructure a noteworthy portion of your spending? (10-20%+?)
Either way, cool concept, I'd definitely consider using it.
[+] [-] gregschlom|13 years ago|reply
Specifically:
"AirBnBForY. AirBnBforY specializes in incubating companies that are the "AirBnB" for their respective industries (e.g. "The AirBnB for pantry space" and "The AirBnB for condiments" (A lot of people aren't making full use of their mustard, ketchup, and other condiments. AirDiments creates a marketplace by which people can use each others condiments)."
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
So, "AirBnBForY" is the punchline for the HN post but we obviously don't pitch it like this :)
[+] [-] k-mcgrady|13 years ago|reply
Anyway, good luck, it's a great idea.
[+] [-] theklub|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
That said, our job is also to make sure everything goes well, and if something happens, we'll have to handle it.
[+] [-] skue|13 years ago|reply
A question: I'm curious whether you put a lot of consideration into the review system?
Asking hosts to invite strangers over and publicly rate their hospitality, cooking, and home is asking a lot. Yes, Airbnb does something similar, but renting a room feels like more of a business transaction. Having dinner guests share a meal is more personal and intimate - and it would be easier for hosts to take reviews personally.
Also, how will you deal with hyper-critical guests who leave mostly negative reviews? A few negative "foodies" like this could be a morale crusher for early hosts.
In any case, good luck!
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
As always, it is very important to us that guest expectations before any booking are the right ones: hosts do not commit on serving food like in a restaurant, they commit it is home made, they commit on a meal structure (number of courses) and they'll respect food specifics mentionned by their guests.
[+] [-] nano111|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iamwil|13 years ago|reply
Solve that, and you might have something interesting on hand.
[+] [-] johnrob|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] evv|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
Here is a great talk of Brian Chesky(Co-founder of Airbnb): http://www.justin.tv/startupschool/b/272180383
There is still a lot of work to do ! This is just the beginning !
[+] [-] SippinLean|13 years ago|reply
It says tables are "manually reviewed by the team". Reviewed with the stringent standards of the health dept?
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
Hosts cook and eat with their guests, so it's a very good way to be sure about the quality: First because hosts eat it as well, second because they'll have a direct feedback, and it's not very pleasant to serve bad food to people when they're eating with you.
In fact, we think there's a fear of a risk more than a real risk. There's less risk to eat something that has been cooked at home, in smal quantities, than something in a big restaurant with food that has stayed in a fridge for several weeks...
Actually, have you often been sick when invited by friend or family?
Reviews we're doing are based on information provided by hosts (description, pictures), as well as email or phone contact if needed. And the review system will help. Risk averse foodies will eat with hosts with no reviews, less risk averse will go to hosts that already have a good reputation on the system.
[+] [-] desireco42|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hawkharris|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
This should definitively be a best practice.
[+] [-] Aga|13 years ago|reply
I hope this catches fire like Airbnb! At least here in Finland "Restaurant Day" [1] has already become somewhat of an institution, so I bet there's potential for Cookening too!
A minor detail: I'd appreciate the _full_ price to be displayed with a side note like "including Cookening service free 3€".
Or is the service fee per group? In that case it could be something like: "15€ per guest + 3€ Cookening service fee per group"
With the current layout the service fee feels almost hidden.
Best of luck with this!
[1] http://www.visitfinland.com/article/restaurant-day/
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmahemoff|13 years ago|reply
http://www.super-marmite.com/
[+] [-] resu|13 years ago|reply
Any plans to expand to Asia?
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
We currently have hosts in Chile, Canada, ... so Asia should come soon. Basically as soon as someone open a table in Asia it's done. If you are asking about our marketing strategy, I don't know yet.
[+] [-] zevyoura|13 years ago|reply
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop-up_restaurant
[+] [-] michaelbwang|13 years ago|reply
I like your concept, especially emphasizing the benefits of home cooking. Here are some things I think you should think carefully about: -how do you ensure safety on both ends (buyer and seller)? -why would someone want to use your platform instead of doing their own underground restaurant? -how do you vet hosts? Is there a vetting process for hosts? -how do you ensure a pleasant group meal dynamic?
Would love to chat more about this if would like. This is an idea I would really, really like to see succeed!
[+] [-] teawithcarl|13 years ago|reply
Imagine tens of thousands of locations in each city, with most people's points netting to near-zero. In other words, you give as much as you take. Cooking vs eating - self-cancelling at nearly 50/50.
Open trade in points, reputation scores, and trust. People without time to cook may barter other reputations.
A vast cashless ecosystem.
Cuisine and location both, discovery via online maps.
Any home, any vehicle, anywhere that trust, reputation, and freedom may actually develop.
Personally, I believe "regulation" leads to the unsafe (thinks McDonalds) food ecosystem we have now.
[+] [-] saraid216|13 years ago|reply
Do you have a plan of implementation? A seed network to beat the cold start problem? An actual, non-exploitable prototype for aiding discovery? A way to demonstrate trustworthiness? Survey results to show enough people willing to cook in order to provide sufficient supply to meet demand?
Or is this just a pipe dream?
[+] [-] erik14th|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ferrantim|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hariis|13 years ago|reply
May be this doesn't belong in this app or may be it does..
[+] [-] hariis|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aatifh|13 years ago|reply
Actually, there are many players out there in this market such as: http://eatfeastly.com/ https://kitchen.ly/ http://bigtable.co/ (Coming soon)
And some more here: http://www.quora.com/Food-Tech-Startups/What-companies-are-d...
It's a good idea this Airbnb for food. Winners will emerge. May the force be with you. :)
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
You forgot to mention many other websites on the market :)
[+] [-] ngrandy|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] resu_nimda|13 years ago|reply
It looks like a cool service though, I requested an invite.
[+] [-] negrit|13 years ago|reply
It's a tough battle out there but it's very interesting !