I'm 30, I have 4 kids (the youngest one only being 1 month old) and my startup, Codeable (https://codeable.io), is only a couple of months from profitability (my gut feeling according to current growth). I still get the stuff done, get to play with my kids and even have some time for hobbies and friends. I think it's all about balance (and an understanding spouse to remind you of priorities every once in a while).
I have many friends who don't have kids and always say "the time isn't right for kids". Well guess what, if you keep thinking this way, the time will never be right, it's all about going out of your comfort zone, as you are with being a successful entrepreneur. They also think kids somehow limit you in some way, but to me, it's quite the opposite, they give me new perspective, more determination and of course a ton of laughs!
Amen. The thing I found is they changed my working hours. It used to be all day, every day. This led to important stuff getting pushed back because I had so many hours, I figured I'd get it done at some point soon.
3 children later, it's 8.5 hours on weekdays only. It changed my working practises so that the moment I sit down at the computer it's the top priority task right now and everybody be damned until I need my first long break.
I also find myself asking the question when someone is looking for free help/products "do I want to spend time helping this stranger or spend time with my children?" It focuses my attention on the money, but makes you kinda selfish towards your family, in that regard.
The dead reply to this by davidjgraph appears to be hellbanned, but I don't see any reason why. His previous comments aren't, and his submissions are all clean as well. What's going on?
I was a much better parent before I had kids, the old saying goes. It proves itself out every day on sites like Reddit and Hacker News.
The description you gave above sounds like any working parent anywhere. If the answer is "No" to a startup, then it would have to be "No" to being a simple employee as well.
I have a start-up company as well as a 1 yr old (as well as a wife, which also is an important commitment.) What I noticed after my child was born was that I was even more focused at work and more focused on effective triage to ensure that my time is spend on the most valuable aspects of the business. The strange thing is that as I've gotten more important commitments in life I've been more efficient in business, probably because my triage filter is so specific now and I'be been able to effectively delegate.
My start-up has the advantage that we make money (i.e. profitable) thus I can afford to delegate. If I was single and my company had no money I think that a child both in terms of expenses (they aren't cheap) as well as time would be more problematic.
I full life for myself includes kids and start-ups. I don't think it is an either/or choice.
Except of course that most historical businesses outside of the mobile/social circle jerk have been started by people who had families.The take-home point here is you wont get funding unless you new VC owners can be sure of exclusivity on your life.
The problem with valley funding is its basically reliant on the tails of the distribution,without massive IPOs buoyed by hundreds of millions of users(not revenue!) it is not profitable.The truth is there is a lot of opportunity for businesses which dont go webscale.
Here is an idea,find a business as a consultant which has an opportunity in a growth industry (They still exist in a recession). Deliver your projects,go to meetups and parties. Take on larger projects from your customer and get some staff. Then look for new customers,building a business which has revenue in the low millions becomes possible and they if you want "webscale" you can bootstrap it yourself.The return on this business would be a joke to a VC but to you would be life changing.
Wow, all I can say is that it is wonderful to read a "can you do a startup and be a parent?" article that is not about MOMS. (Although since the original post didn't mention anything about school responsibilities, doctor's appointments, bedtime, or birthday parties, I'm assuming that all that is done by his wife.)
The answer is simple: absolutely! This is clear based on the amount of feedback in this thread alone. Circumstances are different depending on who you talk to but it can clearly be done, and without all the "help" and perks this guy mentions.
I've seen it many times myself first-hand and now I'm living it. I'm in the process of launching my new startup (www.promoter.io) right now with a 2.5 year old son and I just came from being an early employee/executive at another fast moving startup (www.appfog.com).
Oh, and at the same time, my son is battling leukemia. So often times I'm doing some work from the doctors office (~3-5 times per week without fail) or from the hospital.
It can be done, it's simply a matter of how you prioritize I guess.
So this founder managed to achieve a degree of success at this that most have not. Good for him.
I'd rather hear more from the larger majority of struggling founders with families, because chances are I have more in common with them. What's keeping them from succeeding and how did he avoid the things holding them back?
I suspect a zero-sum game is hiding in the relationship between this guy his non-founder employees, because I very rarely read about founders with young kids helping their employees in their struggle to raise a family under startup conditions.
There are family-friendly startup anecdotes out there, but family-friendly startups surely aren't the norm.
There are many more "founder dads" than people assume. When you become "baseball dad" you will find out that about 15% of all parents in the league are entrepreneurs of some kind. And there is additional 30% of them talking about starting something (from cop trying to start security service to some quite complex biotech stuff).
It seems like when your kids are older than 7 then the probability of being entrepreneur increases as kids get older.
I started my startup their freshman year of college.
The years between? Corporate 9-5 jobs (technically, I'm still doing that, bootstrapping with a day job). It wasn't so much the time as the stability. I knew what my hours would be, and what my income would be. But with the kids basically adults now and able to care for themselves if needed, I feel much more free to take risks and do extensive off-hours work while ignoring them.
As a plus on this, my startup idea is derived from my long career in enterprise software. It's a much more solid concept and more solid market than the sort of monetize-pictures-of-cats stuff that seems to infect young developers. I'm working on a real problem that I understand really well, for customers who have money and are willing to spend it. I'm far more likely to succeed now than I would have been 15 years ago.
IMHO - not w/o sacrificing some of the most critical time you'll spend with your children, or without a world-class support system -- but even then, I question whether it is worth it. I tried and gave up. I'm much happier that I did. I'll revisit it at another time.
My first though when I saw this question was "Please let the law of headlines be wrong". I'm a co-founder with two babies. Its hard but not impossible, having an understanding and supportive spouse is imperative.
I'm not technically a "founder", however I am the first employee of a startup having joined from the start and I've bled through stressful times nearly as much as the 2 founders did, pulling 14-hours work days, answering to production alerts at 1 am, freaking out when we couldn't generate revenue, working my ass off to get something working, etc...
I am also the dad of a 3-year old. My son is almost the same age as the startup I'm working on.
At times it is tough, luckily I have an understanding wife. And my son is one of the biggest reasons I get up in the morning.
Being a parent is like a roller-coaster (much like working on a startup). You're sad and stressed when your child gets sick. And a child also gives you some of the greatest joys in life you can have - there's nothing like coming home after a hard day, only to find your child smiling at your return, giving you a big hug or a kiss, never missing a day to express how much he/she loves you.
There is a difference between being a parent and working on a startup. Both have highs and lows, however while working on a startup, in stressful times one tends to adopt a fuck-it attitude. Like, if it doesn't work out, that's OK, you learn from experience and then you move on, so there's no tragedy if your startup fails. Not so with a child ... you only have one shot to raise him right, to provide a good education, to make him happy and balanced and that child becomes your biggest reason d’etre, regardless of how passionate you are about other things, like software development or your startup.
So that's why my son is probably the biggest reason for why I get up in the morning.
Burn-outs for example are a non-issue for me. I've been burned-out before and it's hard to explain for why this can no longer happen - but the gist is my son is like a mirror of me, so his well-being functions like a benchmark. When I'm sad, then he's sad too and I can't fake happiness in front of him (children have a sixth sense about that), so whenever that happens, it's time to evaluate whatever I'm doing wrong and cut out on the stress. You see, I simply can't afford to burn-out, as my son depends on me. Same issue I have with catching colds for example - I used to catch colds quite frequently, but ever since my son was born, my immune system seems to have strengthened quite a bit. I'm not joking, it's as if my body knows that I need to be stronger and acts accordingly.
So yes, it's possible. If you feel the need to be a parent and you have a spouse that agrees with you, then postponing it is going to be the singly most stupid thing you'll ever do. That's because (1) children are worth it and (2) when it comes to having children, you only have a limited window of opportunity and before you know it, you'll be too old and even with all medical advances in this field, it's better to have them while you're young.
I agree with your post. I also disagree with PG's stance on needing to have a partner, someone to help you get through the tough times of a start-up. I have partners - a wife and four kids. They keep me going during tough times because I could not bear to let them down. They also keep me sane, because as you stated there is nothing quite like a shitty day at the office followed up by a young child that acts like your return from work is Christmas morning. Somehow when they exclaim "Daddy!" when I open the door, it makes most of the work problems instantly forgotten. This has a positive effect on my ability to deal with workplace stress.
I have also found it useful for framing priorities in my head, and even negotiating deals with suppliers. Having kids keeps my priorities straight. When I think about spending time or money, I think about the impact on my kids. I have told suppliers (I have a manufacturing company) "Every dollar I save, is another dollar I can put in my kids college fund". It has become a useful framework for negotiation. Every business trip is compared to time I won't be able to spend with the kids.
My wife got tenure and published her first book while working on a strict 40 hour schedule when we had our first kid. Now that we have four kids (9,6,3, and 2 months) she is working a strict 35 hour week and working on her second book. I find it an inspiration of what get done if you focus and have four little constraints running around.
Plenty of work-a-day entrepreneurs manage to be parents and founders at the same time. Why is it harder in the tech industry? Are technologists just less competent at parenting in general?
How so? You can do anything you want. This idea that parents can't found companies is just a platitude that childless entrepreneurs (usually very young ones I might add) use to justify their insane work schedules. The belief that this is the only way to do it protects their egos from the thought they may be working their way to an early grave.
The uncomfortable truth is that 100 hours a week won't guarantee you success, and 20 hours a week may be sufficient to build a serious business. Every extra hour your work is multiplying the base value of your idea, expertise, connections and staff, but it is not going to magically cross some threshold of success when you put yourself on a perpetual deathmarch. If anything, I think those 70th, 80th, 90th hours tend to have dramatically diminishing returns, and time away from the office helps refuel creativity and lead to more intelligent decision making and recognition of opportunities.
Of course that's all just my opinion, but one thing I'm sure of: no successful entrepreneur got there without challenges, and they certainly never got there listening to the million reasons the rest of us said it wasn't possible.
This guy is funded by Sequoia and gets to take his daughter along with him on business trips, and hire sitters that the hotel finds (who must be expensive).
There are founders and then there are Founders. There are people who've been recognized by VCs as social equals, and who are real executives within VC-istan but still found companies; then there are the long-shot "let's see if this kid makes a miracle happen" founders on audition.
He's in the first set. He's already made it. His investors are OK with him taking his daughter on business trips, which they wouldn't be if he were some unestablished schmuck like most of us. They'd never be okay with paying for the airfare. So for him the answer is "Yes". But if you're trying to break into VC-istan, I'd say "No". It's not only the hours and travel, but also the income volatility and low wages. Of course, there are lots of businesses outside of VC-istan for which different rules apply.
This is the second time I've seen you claim on HN that it's impossible to simultaneously be a company founder and a new parent. This will be the second time I'll tell you that's just not true. Plenty of early-stage founders have young kids. My kids are 13 and 11, and I was a founder when (a) both of them were born and (b) again before they both started school while my wife Erin was working.
This thread is full of other people who have done similar things.
The problem I have with your comments about starting companies and parenting is not that it discourages new parents from considering starting a company, but that it once again posits that tech startup founders are an oppressed class. But consider raising a kid while working full time cleaning offices. Or as a construction worker. We sometimes sound like we actually believe that only the wealthy in this country successfully raise kids, but we obviously must know that isn't true at all.
> In fact, twice we actually had negative cash (ie, far more debt owed to the bank than cash) and struggled to even make payroll or cover rent. At one point we had to layoff over half of our employees and make payroll by taking an advance out on a credit card – that was just before my wife gave birth.
I guess being a wealthy founder with a family is a sound idea, but being employed by one, not so much.
People in this industry -- moreso than any other, it seems -- often have some need to project their own lot as the ideal way to be in the business. If you're 20-ish and childless, well that's just the bestest way you ever could be, am I right? And so on.
[+] [-] tzaman|12 years ago|reply
I have many friends who don't have kids and always say "the time isn't right for kids". Well guess what, if you keep thinking this way, the time will never be right, it's all about going out of your comfort zone, as you are with being a successful entrepreneur. They also think kids somehow limit you in some way, but to me, it's quite the opposite, they give me new perspective, more determination and of course a ton of laughs!
[+] [-] davidjgraph|12 years ago|reply
3 children later, it's 8.5 hours on weekdays only. It changed my working practises so that the moment I sit down at the computer it's the top priority task right now and everybody be damned until I need my first long break.
I also find myself asking the question when someone is looking for free help/products "do I want to spend time helping this stranger or spend time with my children?" It focuses my attention on the money, but makes you kinda selfish towards your family, in that regard.
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dasil003|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] roel_v|12 years ago|reply
"Even with the hectic work demands that I face on a daily basis, I’m still able to be very involved in the lives of my wife and two young daughters."
"Each week, my daughters and I have a “daddy-daughter” night where the three of us go to dinner." (whoah, a whole evening per week?)
"For me, this means setting aside time to relax with my family and give them my full, undivided attention."
"I’m online 24/7 and always checking email."
So I guess the answer to the headline is, if I'm to follow the article, either "no" or "for some definitions of 'daddy'"?
[+] [-] corresation|12 years ago|reply
The description you gave above sounds like any working parent anywhere. If the answer is "No" to a startup, then it would have to be "No" to being a simple employee as well.
[+] [-] bhouston|12 years ago|reply
My start-up has the advantage that we make money (i.e. profitable) thus I can afford to delegate. If I was single and my company had no money I think that a child both in terms of expenses (they aren't cheap) as well as time would be more problematic.
I full life for myself includes kids and start-ups. I don't think it is an either/or choice.
[+] [-] petersouth|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Choronzon|12 years ago|reply
The problem with valley funding is its basically reliant on the tails of the distribution,without massive IPOs buoyed by hundreds of millions of users(not revenue!) it is not profitable.The truth is there is a lot of opportunity for businesses which dont go webscale. Here is an idea,find a business as a consultant which has an opportunity in a growth industry (They still exist in a recession). Deliver your projects,go to meetups and parties. Take on larger projects from your customer and get some staff. Then look for new customers,building a business which has revenue in the low millions becomes possible and they if you want "webscale" you can bootstrap it yourself.The return on this business would be a joke to a VC but to you would be life changing.
[+] [-] esperluette|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shn|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ckeck|12 years ago|reply
I've seen it many times myself first-hand and now I'm living it. I'm in the process of launching my new startup (www.promoter.io) right now with a 2.5 year old son and I just came from being an early employee/executive at another fast moving startup (www.appfog.com).
Oh, and at the same time, my son is battling leukemia. So often times I'm doing some work from the doctors office (~3-5 times per week without fail) or from the hospital.
It can be done, it's simply a matter of how you prioritize I guess.
[+] [-] foundersomeday|12 years ago|reply
I'd rather hear more from the larger majority of struggling founders with families, because chances are I have more in common with them. What's keeping them from succeeding and how did he avoid the things holding them back?
I suspect a zero-sum game is hiding in the relationship between this guy his non-founder employees, because I very rarely read about founders with young kids helping their employees in their struggle to raise a family under startup conditions.
There are family-friendly startup anecdotes out there, but family-friendly startups surely aren't the norm.
[+] [-] tlogan|12 years ago|reply
It seems like when your kids are older than 7 then the probability of being entrepreneur increases as kids get older.
Completely unscientific but make sense.
[+] [-] beat|12 years ago|reply
I started my startup their freshman year of college.
The years between? Corporate 9-5 jobs (technically, I'm still doing that, bootstrapping with a day job). It wasn't so much the time as the stability. I knew what my hours would be, and what my income would be. But with the kids basically adults now and able to care for themselves if needed, I feel much more free to take risks and do extensive off-hours work while ignoring them.
[+] [-] beat|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zenocon|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrisvineup|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bad_user|12 years ago|reply
I am also the dad of a 3-year old. My son is almost the same age as the startup I'm working on.
At times it is tough, luckily I have an understanding wife. And my son is one of the biggest reasons I get up in the morning.
Being a parent is like a roller-coaster (much like working on a startup). You're sad and stressed when your child gets sick. And a child also gives you some of the greatest joys in life you can have - there's nothing like coming home after a hard day, only to find your child smiling at your return, giving you a big hug or a kiss, never missing a day to express how much he/she loves you.
There is a difference between being a parent and working on a startup. Both have highs and lows, however while working on a startup, in stressful times one tends to adopt a fuck-it attitude. Like, if it doesn't work out, that's OK, you learn from experience and then you move on, so there's no tragedy if your startup fails. Not so with a child ... you only have one shot to raise him right, to provide a good education, to make him happy and balanced and that child becomes your biggest reason d’etre, regardless of how passionate you are about other things, like software development or your startup.
So that's why my son is probably the biggest reason for why I get up in the morning.
Burn-outs for example are a non-issue for me. I've been burned-out before and it's hard to explain for why this can no longer happen - but the gist is my son is like a mirror of me, so his well-being functions like a benchmark. When I'm sad, then he's sad too and I can't fake happiness in front of him (children have a sixth sense about that), so whenever that happens, it's time to evaluate whatever I'm doing wrong and cut out on the stress. You see, I simply can't afford to burn-out, as my son depends on me. Same issue I have with catching colds for example - I used to catch colds quite frequently, but ever since my son was born, my immune system seems to have strengthened quite a bit. I'm not joking, it's as if my body knows that I need to be stronger and acts accordingly.
So yes, it's possible. If you feel the need to be a parent and you have a spouse that agrees with you, then postponing it is going to be the singly most stupid thing you'll ever do. That's because (1) children are worth it and (2) when it comes to having children, you only have a limited window of opportunity and before you know it, you'll be too old and even with all medical advances in this field, it's better to have them while you're young.
[+] [-] gregpilling|12 years ago|reply
I have also found it useful for framing priorities in my head, and even negotiating deals with suppliers. Having kids keeps my priorities straight. When I think about spending time or money, I think about the impact on my kids. I have told suppliers (I have a manufacturing company) "Every dollar I save, is another dollar I can put in my kids college fund". It has become a useful framework for negotiation. Every business trip is compared to time I won't be able to spend with the kids.
My wife got tenure and published her first book while working on a strict 40 hour schedule when we had our first kid. Now that we have four kids (9,6,3, and 2 months) she is working a strict 35 hour week and working on her second book. I find it an inspiration of what get done if you focus and have four little constraints running around.
[+] [-] saraid216|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnrob|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] orangethirty|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] marcosdumay|12 years ago|reply
"When your children grow up and asks you why you didn't follow your dreams, do you want to answer - It was because of you?"
At the same time, yes, it's very hard.
[+] [-] chris_wot|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dasil003|12 years ago|reply
The uncomfortable truth is that 100 hours a week won't guarantee you success, and 20 hours a week may be sufficient to build a serious business. Every extra hour your work is multiplying the base value of your idea, expertise, connections and staff, but it is not going to magically cross some threshold of success when you put yourself on a perpetual deathmarch. If anything, I think those 70th, 80th, 90th hours tend to have dramatically diminishing returns, and time away from the office helps refuel creativity and lead to more intelligent decision making and recognition of opportunities.
Of course that's all just my opinion, but one thing I'm sure of: no successful entrepreneur got there without challenges, and they certainly never got there listening to the million reasons the rest of us said it wasn't possible.
[+] [-] michaelochurch|12 years ago|reply
There are founders and then there are Founders. There are people who've been recognized by VCs as social equals, and who are real executives within VC-istan but still found companies; then there are the long-shot "let's see if this kid makes a miracle happen" founders on audition.
He's in the first set. He's already made it. His investors are OK with him taking his daughter on business trips, which they wouldn't be if he were some unestablished schmuck like most of us. They'd never be okay with paying for the airfare. So for him the answer is "Yes". But if you're trying to break into VC-istan, I'd say "No". It's not only the hours and travel, but also the income volatility and low wages. Of course, there are lots of businesses outside of VC-istan for which different rules apply.
[+] [-] tptacek|12 years ago|reply
This thread is full of other people who have done similar things.
The problem I have with your comments about starting companies and parenting is not that it discourages new parents from considering starting a company, but that it once again posits that tech startup founders are an oppressed class. But consider raising a kid while working full time cleaning offices. Or as a construction worker. We sometimes sound like we actually believe that only the wealthy in this country successfully raise kids, but we obviously must know that isn't true at all.
[edited to depersonalize the response; sorry]
[+] [-] floody-berry|12 years ago|reply
> In fact, twice we actually had negative cash (ie, far more debt owed to the bank than cash) and struggled to even make payroll or cover rent. At one point we had to layoff over half of our employees and make payroll by taking an advance out on a credit card – that was just before my wife gave birth.
I guess being a wealthy founder with a family is a sound idea, but being employed by one, not so much.
[+] [-] corresation|12 years ago|reply
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_22687870/most-startup...
People in this industry -- moreso than any other, it seems -- often have some need to project their own lot as the ideal way to be in the business. If you're 20-ish and childless, well that's just the bestest way you ever could be, am I right? And so on.