The documentary mentioned about his bi-polar is available on Amazon (and without permission on Youtube) for anyone interested, it's a very good insight into bi-polar and depression, worth the 120 minutes:
Thank you for the documentary links. And it is admirable of Stephen Fry to come out and say that he attempted suicide. Someone close to me attempted one too, and this documentary puts another light on it. Thank you again. :)
I saw the documentary a couple of years ago. Well worth a watch. (The Carrie Fisher interview ties in with all of the, "That's no snow! Carrie Fisher was snorting cocaine on the Hoth set!" articles that float around)
When you use words like "bi-polar and depression" it gives the sense that this is a medical disease. And while speaking strictly, it is indeed a medical disease -- I want people to see the raw human factor in this.
Depression, for example, in my experience, and from what I've seen -- often has a cause; a rational, explainable cause (that the sufferer often isn't aware of). When you treat someone's depression as a "medical disease" like the cold or the flu, you are completely ignoring the human factor.
I don't know why people ignore the real human factor when it comes to depression. Instead they resort to a bunch of drugs that do not address the root (psychological) cause of the depression, but rather just give some temporary fleeting relief.
I have bipolar and ADHD. I've been speaking on it at tech conferences this year [1]. Recently we started devpressed.com [2], a forum where the tech community can talk about depression.
We need to destigmatize mental illness so that our friends and coworkers aren't ashamed to ask for help. There are a lot more people going through this than you think. If you're struggling, and don't have anyone to talk to, check out devpressed, or contact me.
Thanks very much for posting those links, I too am bipolar. Unfortunately I'll have to put off checking them out properly until another time.
Until last December I'd been stable for around 5 years. Now I'm putting together an account of my health over the last 6 months for the benefit of my department's special circumstances committee. With any luck I'll make it through to the next year of my degree.
Thank you for your efforts, I hope to be able to contribute similarly when I'm stable again.
I'll forward this to my wife[1] as I expect she'll find them of interest too (she's also bipolar).
Devpressed seems like a really good initiative! Looking at HN's submission history, and from personal experience, I believe such a forum is much needed. As a student or professional struggling with mental illness, having someone to speak to that knows your world, is extremely valuable. Keep up the good work!
It's tempting to think that he's wealthy and working and so this disclosure is easy to make, because it won't affect his work life.
In theory we have anti-discrimination laws here, but it's hard to prove that someone hasn't employed you because of your mental health problems. And actors usually need to be insured when they're doing a film. It's hard for some actors to get that insurance, expensive, because of past mental illness.
Stephen Fry (among others in some UK media) is doing good work at destigmatizing mental illness.
I'm not wealthy or well-connected, but I'm "coming out" about mental illness myself. I've talked about it at length on HN (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2043019), but I'm working on a blog post now that talks about this in detail, with the goal of actually opening a dialogue about mental illness in the tech industry. You can read what I have so far here: https://gist.github.com/daeken/8bc79e53311d2e32a981 It still needs a lot of work, and my mother (a mental health practitioner by trade) wrote a section with extensive resources that I haven't yet integrated, but it's coming along.
I've been getting better lately, but for a few months I was the worst I've ever been in my life; not being able to talk publicly about it for fear of discrimination and the general mental health stigma makes the loneliness... crushing. I'm hoping this will help others take the first step to helping themselves and others.
This particular disclosure is new, but he's been open about being bi-polar for a while, and IIRC about at least one past suicide attempt (see the documentary mentioned elsewhere).
I don't even want to imagine a day Stephen Fry isn't around. What a horrible, horrible void there would be where he stood.
The insidiousness of this disease is in how well it hides itself in plain sight in many cases. And how terrifyingly easy it is to fall to it.
He said there is "no reason" for someone wanting to take their own life.
"There is no 'why', it's not the right question. There's no reason. If there were a reason for it, you could reason someone out of it, and you could tell them why they shouldn't take their own life," he said.
Stephen Fry should speak for himself. People can have very good reasons to want to die. Reasons that are so good that, besides outweighing the value that their life has to them, still have enough oomph to carry one over the high doorstep of fear and pain that comes with taking one's own life.
Life is not infinitely valuable. Its goods can be outweighed by bads. People who really just want to go should be respected and we should help them get out of here.
Glad to see a major figure going public about his struggle with mental illness. Though I don't think that those with a "celebrity status" should be pressured into sharing this information, let alone expected to do so, it's always comforting for me to see people slowly start to release their stigmas with discussing mental illness, especially on a personal level. As someone who has suffered from mental illness, it would do so much to be able to talk to others without worrying about the reactions and dismissal that comes from so many people I've encountered.
The nature of this illness truly reveals itself when you can contrast the quotes from the article with his behaviour in a show like QI. Without knowing more about him you would presume him to be a very happy man.
My roommate suffers from bipolar disorder (and a lot of other stuff to boot), and honestly, it is as much a disease with as much rationale behind it as any physiological one. His comment about "arguing" with suicidals hit the right note.
At first, I read "Stephen Fry reveals he will attempt suicide in [year]". My mind racing as to "why, why would he ever want to do that?".
After having understood the actual title, I'm now unsure which of the two is more confusing or unsettling. I suppose equally so. This world would miss an incredible human being.
There was a deeply insightful interview with him where he spoke about self pity and how destructive it is[0]. I hope to some day meet him and thank him for that. As I would love to just thank him for openly being himself, in public.
I admire his ability to explain a concept that is dear to him. He will lay the scene in your head by touching of various points (which is exquisitely exploited in his host capacity on QI) and then, with sudden, stern force drill the most amazing and brutal observation into your skull that makes a lightbulb explode right above your head.
He will start speaking and briefly mention what he is talking about. Then he will turn all chitty-chattery as you are accustomed to, cause it's Stephen. And then he just ravages you with this piece of gold and while you're still recovering from the blow to your brain, he will return to Stephen mode, picking up the pieces, holding your hand, asking whether you're OK and making everything good again.
I would walk right up to him, wherever I can get a hold of him, tell him how much I admire him and weep in public, right then and there, without hesitation. Then I will tell him that I haven't done anything close to that in years. I should really find out whether he will be close to where I live anytime soon.
Thanks for posting that video. Seems to me he's an expert because of his struggles, and this supports the idea of learning more from failure than success.
I was actually at this podcast recording (its great by the way, check it out). It was the most human discussion I've heard for a long time. It really struck home that people assume so much of someone because they are on TV. He is a great guy with many problems, a great ambassador for taking the stigma out of mental illness.
We need more people like Fry to speak up about their experiences with bipolar disorder. It's widespread yet stigmatized because not everyone understands it or knows how to seek treatment.
I was diagnosed bipolar as a kid and spent over three years in a locked disciplinary boarding school. At first I was reluctant to take medication because of the stigma associated with it, but taking lithium changed my life.
I've been completely stable for 9 years, taking the same low dose.
It's really hard to find the right mix of medication and / or behavioral changes because every person is different. But it is possible for people with bipolar to find balance, stability and happiness. I think that speaking up about our personal experiences helps shatter the stigma while supporting families who are still considering different treatment options.
> The actor and comedian attempted suicide after walking out of the West End play Cell Mates in 1995 - an event he recounted in a documentary for BBC Two called The Secret Life of the Manic Depressive.
He also attempted suicide as a teenager (I think 16/17 but don't quite recall), although in his (first) autobiography he describes it as a childish rebellion to upset his parents. Therefore I wonder if it's happened 3 times or potentially many more.
Incidentally, both his autobiographies are well worth reading. As are his novels.
I think these suicide attempts are more of a "cry for help", because clearly he really sucks at committing suicide. I'm really glad he is, to be honest. Wishing him all the best.
i've struggled with bipolar for years. it's not easy. after my startup was sold in an asset purchase and i was left with nothing but the credit card debt i'd accumuluated thinking i was going to make it big, i crashed hard. i got all tangled up in a huge web of internal metaphors and was in and out of mental hospitals - 3 stints in two months. i'm getting better now, and it's good to have people like stephen fry trying to destigmatize the illness.
Bipolar's a terrible disease -- around 30% of people with bipolar disorder attempt suicide at least once, and around 15% of people with it ultimately die from suicide.
So glad that Stephen Fry is still with us, and is continuing to speak out about mental illness so well.
Hopefully this will bring the issue of mental health back to the fore AND make sure that funding for the appropriate NHS and outpatient services does not get tampered with.
Mental Health services have always been underfunded in England.
Waiting lists[1] for some forms of talking therapy (for people in secondary care, with severe and enduring MH problems) can be very long. In Gloucestershire there's[2] a max 6 week wait for assessment and then 18 week wait for treatment to start. This is for people being treated in the community, as an alternative to hospitalisation. And Glos is pretty good at this. Some places there's waits of over a year.
Luckily there's something called "IAPT" (Improved Access to Psychological Therapies) which is ring-fenced[3] funding to provide evidence based (usually cognitive behavioural therapy) in short courses (12 weeks) to people coming from primary care, but not in secondary care. Usually you can self refer for assessment. You might need to ask your GPs surgery for "IAPT" or "PCAT" (primary care and assessment team), because some of them don't appear to know it exists.
[1] be careful with terminology here. I'm using it wrong. Waiting list is a defined term with a specific meaning. If you're asking a local health board about the length of time people have before they start treatment you want to avoid use of the words "waiting list".
[2] These times were accurate last time I asked, about 2 years ago. These times are significantly better than they were 5 years ago, and the local trust is still working to reduce those maximum times.
[3] Maybe I'm wrong about the ring-fencing of the funding?
I always thought people want to suicide all the time but are too shameful to confess.
First time I attempted suicide was at 12, when my fathers divorced and my mother left.
Then I had the misfortune to be the classic tiny nerdy good guy, always in love with some girl. Young girls can be cruel.
Suicide was always in my mind from 15 to about 25. But it is not a dreadful feeling, in fact at that times, it can be very liberating.
To think everything has a very simple solution, I saw death like the end of suffering and the beginning of peace, whats not to love about that? Suicide thoughts always comforted me in those sad moments, like a pressure valve. Nothing can be so bad that death is not a fix for it.
But its easier to think about it than to do it, that's for sure. Something changed in my mind about the time I had 30. Never had those feelings again. But I always will remember the times I contemplated death as moments of hope in between desperation.
No it doesn't. It's just that people in the film industry (or specifically, actors) are famous an so their suicides a) get more attention and b) seem more surprising, because successful film actors are stereotypically glamorous, wealthy, gregarious and so on. I've worked in film for about a decade and don't feel the rate of mental illness there is statistically so different from other industries. As someone with ADD who is also subject to depression I've taken some time to think about this. The stereotype may arise from the fact that the film industry is more tolerant of personal idiosyncrasies and eccentricity than other fields of employment.
[+] [-] citricsquid|13 years ago|reply
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808482/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Fry:_The_Secret_Life_of...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stephen-Frys-Secret-Manic-Depressive...
[+] [-] raganwald|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iamshs|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pyre|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] supersaiyan|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andyhmltn|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] winter_blue|13 years ago|reply
Depression, for example, in my experience, and from what I've seen -- often has a cause; a rational, explainable cause (that the sufferer often isn't aware of). When you treat someone's depression as a "medical disease" like the cold or the flu, you are completely ignoring the human factor.
Many cases of depression can actually be solved without drugs -- by addressing the problem at the root of it. "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" by David D. Burns, goes into this. (http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-New-Mood-Therapy/dp/03808...)
I don't know why people ignore the real human factor when it comes to depression. Instead they resort to a bunch of drugs that do not address the root (psychological) cause of the depression, but rather just give some temporary fleeting relief.
[+] [-] gregorymichael|13 years ago|reply
We need to destigmatize mental illness so that our friends and coworkers aren't ashamed to ask for help. There are a lot more people going through this than you think. If you're struggling, and don't have anyone to talk to, check out devpressed, or contact me.
[1] http://confreaks.com/videos/2341-mwrc2013-devs-and-depressio...
[2] http://www.devpressed.com
[+] [-] ghswa|13 years ago|reply
Until last December I'd been stable for around 5 years. Now I'm putting together an account of my health over the last 6 months for the benefit of my department's special circumstances committee. With any luck I'll make it through to the next year of my degree.
Thank you for your efforts, I hope to be able to contribute similarly when I'm stable again.
I'll forward this to my wife[1] as I expect she'll find them of interest too (she's also bipolar).
[1] http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/blog/academic-life-mental-i...
[+] [-] edwkar|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DanBC|13 years ago|reply
In theory we have anti-discrimination laws here, but it's hard to prove that someone hasn't employed you because of your mental health problems. And actors usually need to be insured when they're doing a film. It's hard for some actors to get that insurance, expensive, because of past mental illness.
Stephen Fry (among others in some UK media) is doing good work at destigmatizing mental illness.
[+] [-] daeken|13 years ago|reply
I've been getting better lately, but for a few months I was the worst I've ever been in my life; not being able to talk publicly about it for fear of discrimination and the general mental health stigma makes the loneliness... crushing. I'm hoping this will help others take the first step to helping themselves and others.
[+] [-] pyre|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eksith|13 years ago|reply
The insidiousness of this disease is in how well it hides itself in plain sight in many cases. And how terrifyingly easy it is to fall to it.
[+] [-] koningrobot|13 years ago|reply
Life is not infinitely valuable. Its goods can be outweighed by bads. People who really just want to go should be respected and we should help them get out of here.
[+] [-] publicfig|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MrJagil|13 years ago|reply
My roommate suffers from bipolar disorder (and a lot of other stuff to boot), and honestly, it is as much a disease with as much rationale behind it as any physiological one. His comment about "arguing" with suicidals hit the right note.
[+] [-] ZoFreX|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skore|13 years ago|reply
After having understood the actual title, I'm now unsure which of the two is more confusing or unsettling. I suppose equally so. This world would miss an incredible human being.
There was a deeply insightful interview with him where he spoke about self pity and how destructive it is[0]. I hope to some day meet him and thank him for that. As I would love to just thank him for openly being himself, in public.
I admire his ability to explain a concept that is dear to him. He will lay the scene in your head by touching of various points (which is exquisitely exploited in his host capacity on QI) and then, with sudden, stern force drill the most amazing and brutal observation into your skull that makes a lightbulb explode right above your head.
He will start speaking and briefly mention what he is talking about. Then he will turn all chitty-chattery as you are accustomed to, cause it's Stephen. And then he just ravages you with this piece of gold and while you're still recovering from the blow to your brain, he will return to Stephen mode, picking up the pieces, holding your hand, asking whether you're OK and making everything good again.
I would walk right up to him, wherever I can get a hold of him, tell him how much I admire him and weep in public, right then and there, without hesitation. Then I will tell him that I haven't done anything close to that in years. I should really find out whether he will be close to where I live anytime soon.
[0] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_2kelqYz_o
[+] [-] 0xdeadbeefbabe|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arankine|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hawkharris|13 years ago|reply
I was diagnosed bipolar as a kid and spent over three years in a locked disciplinary boarding school. At first I was reluctant to take medication because of the stigma associated with it, but taking lithium changed my life.
I've been completely stable for 9 years, taking the same low dose.
It's really hard to find the right mix of medication and / or behavioral changes because every person is different. But it is possible for people with bipolar to find balance, stability and happiness. I think that speaking up about our personal experiences helps shatter the stigma while supporting families who are still considering different treatment options.
[+] [-] waster|13 years ago|reply
Bravo to Stephen Fry for going public.
[+] [-] corin_|13 years ago|reply
He also attempted suicide as a teenager (I think 16/17 but don't quite recall), although in his (first) autobiography he describes it as a childish rebellion to upset his parents. Therefore I wonder if it's happened 3 times or potentially many more.
Incidentally, both his autobiographies are well worth reading. As are his novels.
[+] [-] sgt|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MarkPNeyer|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cjbprime|13 years ago|reply
So glad that Stephen Fry is still with us, and is continuing to speak out about mental illness so well.
[+] [-] simonbarker87|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DanBC|13 years ago|reply
Waiting lists[1] for some forms of talking therapy (for people in secondary care, with severe and enduring MH problems) can be very long. In Gloucestershire there's[2] a max 6 week wait for assessment and then 18 week wait for treatment to start. This is for people being treated in the community, as an alternative to hospitalisation. And Glos is pretty good at this. Some places there's waits of over a year.
Luckily there's something called "IAPT" (Improved Access to Psychological Therapies) which is ring-fenced[3] funding to provide evidence based (usually cognitive behavioural therapy) in short courses (12 weeks) to people coming from primary care, but not in secondary care. Usually you can self refer for assessment. You might need to ask your GPs surgery for "IAPT" or "PCAT" (primary care and assessment team), because some of them don't appear to know it exists.
[1] be careful with terminology here. I'm using it wrong. Waiting list is a defined term with a specific meaning. If you're asking a local health board about the length of time people have before they start treatment you want to avoid use of the words "waiting list".
[2] These times were accurate last time I asked, about 2 years ago. These times are significantly better than they were 5 years ago, and the local trust is still working to reduce those maximum times.
[3] Maybe I'm wrong about the ring-fencing of the funding?
[+] [-] erre|13 years ago|reply
Grrr: door-stepped by the press this morning. Said all there was to be said in the podcast with [Richard K Herring] - intrusion makes 1 withdraw
to be expected, perhaps, but not really helpful.
[+] [-] bangla32|13 years ago|reply
But its easier to think about it than to do it, that's for sure. Something changed in my mind about the time I had 30. Never had those feelings again. But I always will remember the times I contemplated death as moments of hope in between desperation.
[+] [-] itsmefirsttimer|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|13 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] waltz|13 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] anigbrowl|13 years ago|reply