I remember reading somewhere that the policemen in the raid did not know what were going on, or even who the target was. I wouldn't be surprised if they thought they were taking down a terrorist cell, given that the personal used was the counter-terrorism special tactics Group.
Reading the Wikipedia article about the task force, their job is in dealing with high risk situations involving armed offenders and possible terrorism related events. They also train with New Zealand Special Air Service Commandos. In that context, the raid makes much more sense in how it was conducted, with silencers, helicopters, dogs and 20-30+ personal. The real question then comes to who in the command structure decided to use such group for serving a warrant, and collecting evidence for an assisting copyright infringement case. Given the nature of the crime, the low threat level (admitted in court), this is rather uniquely in history. One might also wonder how much influence the FBI had in the decision.
I obviously don't know much but it seems stupid to not tell your team who they're going after. They would use that information to plan the breach and I'd suspect a good squad leader would demand to know before going in.
The audio from the helicopter features radio reports from the ground team with words to the effect "target secured" (ie. they knew they were after Kim specifically, once he was restrained that was their objective completed).
"The real question then comes to who in the command structure decided to use such group for serving a warrant"
"such group" needs practice similar to how firemen use controlled fires to practice their skills. As such it makes total sense that you would use this as an opportunity to hone the groups skills for a time when the target is much more important.
I've seen cases where the NYPD sends officers overseas to (sorry can't find a link) help with matters that have nothing to do with NYC at all. I assume this has to do with some kind of practice for when they need the same at home.
Regardless of your stance on the entire Mega issue, no-one can deny that the raid is simply terrifying.
Personally I have no clue how they justified such a heavily armed response particularly considering the fact that Dotcom never posed a physical threat to anyone let alone the fact that there were a number of children in the building at the time.
Using a SWAT raid to arrest a subject in cases where the police also want to seize evidence isn't at all uncommon in the US these days. The ostensible idea is that speed and ferocity is needed to capture evidence before criminals can destroy it. In practice I think the situation is more that police departments feel they need need SWAT teams because of terrorism, etc. But once they have them they start looking for chances to use them so the members don't get bored. The police in the US are required to knock on the door and announce themselves before conducting a raid which would interfere with the police starting the suspects and getting them before they could, say, flush their drugs down the toilet. Thankfully for the police there's no requirement for how loudly they have to knock, so I don't think I've ever heard of a case where the suspect or neighbors heard them do this. There are some states where over half of police searches are done by tactical squads bursting in behind a battering ram.
What's the point of buying all those toys if you never get to use them? And what's a better time to use them, but when you know they can't potentially get damaged?
> no-one can deny that the raid is simply terrifying.
It looked pretty amateurish to me. They had trouble climbing a 3 foot high gate, which after they had ‘scaled’ it, turns out was easily opened.
> such a heavily armed response
I counted 5 police officers who approached the house together, only one of them was armed with a rifle. I saw no violence whatsoever, it was pretty laid-back. At no point in the video did they point a gun at any of the suspects, and they lowered their fire arms before they entered the building (highly unusual if you think you’re in danger or if you want to intimidate someone).
> Dotcom never posed a physical threat to anyone
When you’re dealing with a rich suspect who loves expensive toys and has a large staff, you have to be prepared for anything. In the US, they would’ve sent an army to surround and comb through that enormous mansion. Given that Dotcom is morbidly obese, I doubt the agents saw him as a physical threat, it’s his staff and the presence of weapons they needed to worry about.
What I find most offensive is that this level of police response is that it's being used against someone that facilitated sharing of content between users that would have never paid for it, yet, good luck getting a third of these resources spent tracking down criminals that did things to hurt someone. Apparently, it's more important to protect imagined profit than people.
It was considered, at the time, the most expensive house in New Zealand. However, he only rents it. He tried to buy it, but the New Zealand government get involved in overseas investment deals/land purchase, and he was denied permission to buy it because he was "not of good character".
It is known within NZ as "the Chrisco mansion", as it was built by the owners of Chrisco - a Christmas hamper mail order company. People still get wealthy the old-fashioned way down under.
1) That some very official looking people are forced to address him as Mr. Dotcom... which is on my list of the most ridiculous names a person could give themselves.
2) The giant statue of a rino in his yard. Really? A Rino?
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
[+] [-] belorn|12 years ago|reply
Reading the Wikipedia article about the task force, their job is in dealing with high risk situations involving armed offenders and possible terrorism related events. They also train with New Zealand Special Air Service Commandos. In that context, the raid makes much more sense in how it was conducted, with silencers, helicopters, dogs and 20-30+ personal. The real question then comes to who in the command structure decided to use such group for serving a warrant, and collecting evidence for an assisting copyright infringement case. Given the nature of the crime, the low threat level (admitted in court), this is rather uniquely in history. One might also wonder how much influence the FBI had in the decision.
[+] [-] dangoldin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] contingencies|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] genwin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] larrys|12 years ago|reply
"such group" needs practice similar to how firemen use controlled fires to practice their skills. As such it makes total sense that you would use this as an opportunity to hone the groups skills for a time when the target is much more important.
I've seen cases where the NYPD sends officers overseas to (sorry can't find a link) help with matters that have nothing to do with NYC at all. I assume this has to do with some kind of practice for when they need the same at home.
[+] [-] Peroni|12 years ago|reply
Personally I have no clue how they justified such a heavily armed response particularly considering the fact that Dotcom never posed a physical threat to anyone let alone the fact that there were a number of children in the building at the time.
[+] [-] Symmetry|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mjolk|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Samuel_Michon|12 years ago|reply
It looked pretty amateurish to me. They had trouble climbing a 3 foot high gate, which after they had ‘scaled’ it, turns out was easily opened.
> such a heavily armed response
I counted 5 police officers who approached the house together, only one of them was armed with a rifle. I saw no violence whatsoever, it was pretty laid-back. At no point in the video did they point a gun at any of the suspects, and they lowered their fire arms before they entered the building (highly unusual if you think you’re in danger or if you want to intimidate someone).
> Dotcom never posed a physical threat to anyone
When you’re dealing with a rich suspect who loves expensive toys and has a large staff, you have to be prepared for anything. In the US, they would’ve sent an army to surround and comb through that enormous mansion. Given that Dotcom is morbidly obese, I doubt the agents saw him as a physical threat, it’s his staff and the presence of weapons they needed to worry about.
[+] [-] mjolk|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] magoon|12 years ago|reply
Did they worry that Kimble had a Dr. Evil escape pod?
[+] [-] crb|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alan_cx|12 years ago|reply
I suppose we could call it "crowd censorship".
Edit: OK, egg on face. Its now very visible. I'll eat the humble pie and shut the hell up.
[+] [-] hereonbusiness|12 years ago|reply
A behaviour one would expect from adolescents, not leaders.
[+] [-] alextingle|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ancarda|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] crb|12 years ago|reply
It is known within NZ as "the Chrisco mansion", as it was built by the owners of Chrisco - a Christmas hamper mail order company. People still get wealthy the old-fashioned way down under.
[+] [-] Peroni|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jack-r-abbit|12 years ago|reply
1) That some very official looking people are forced to address him as Mr. Dotcom... which is on my list of the most ridiculous names a person could give themselves.
2) The giant statue of a rino in his yard. Really? A Rino?
[+] [-] dopamean|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Apocryphon|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Samuel_Michon|12 years ago|reply
His marketing team does its job well, but surely, HN users are smarter than to fall for this rhetoric.
[+] [-] fsckin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] FreeInfo4All|12 years ago|reply
Information wants to be free, man!
Except when it's my information. Then it's just a terrible invasion of privacy.