I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of Soylent against Ensure Complete. They seem to be very similar in intent: http://ensure.com/products/ensure-complete-shakes and based on the nutrition information for Ensure Complete from that page and the rough description of Soylent (http://robrhinehart.com/?p=424) I do not see a major difference.
It would appear that to get the same nutrients as Soylent I would need to drink 4 bottles of Ensure Complete per day. From the Abbott store they are $41.99 for 16 bottles: a week's supply works out at $73.48. Very close to Soylent pricing.
I agree. I can't imagine it is better than Ensure but, I'm not doctor or nutritionist. Ensure has the exact same intent and has been used, tested, and refined for ~40 years.
Not saying it makes Soylent better or not, but Ensure isn't great. In one study, where Ensure was used instead of the standard glucose solution for an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test, some subjects ended up with 2 hour blood glucose levels over 180 mg/dL. It's marketed as having a low Glycemic Index, but the GI of chocolate cake and ice cream are actually even lower...
AFAICT, though, the only "better" about Soylent is that it's, like, disruptive.
The Soylent guy is an engineer who approached it like an engineering problem. It is supposed to contain everything your body needs on a regular basis.
Ensure is a food replacement that has a long history of helping people with medical concerns. My great-grandmother lived mostly on this stuff while going through chemo.
So far as I know, Ensure has never been advertised as the magic bullet to replace every food ever.
My father, whom after having some terrible lymph-node cancer about 15 years ago, finally couldn't eat. Due to scar tissue he was breathing in more food than he was eating so now he taking what is more close to Soylent called Jevity through a stomach tube.
Typical consumer products are loaded with sugar, as most people are now accustomed to a large amount in the diet.
Looks like 4 bottles would be 204g total carbs, 80g of it sugar. Not as bad I was expecting, but not great. Soylent claims 200g carbs, but there is no further breakdown. From its positioning I'd guess it is lower, but I can't confirm it yet.
Ensure's goal is as supplement, or to fight food-related diseases (diabetes etc).
Solyent's goal is to provide every day healthy food replacement for regular people.
This is perhaps the worst example of people who learn their science and medicine from reading Reddit that I have yet seen in the Hacker News community. It illustrates the fallibility of human nature behind every new business scheme, and shows that a business doesn't have to be a big, multinational publicly traded corporation to engage in business with little regard for customer safety or public benefit.
AFTER EDIT: I have read the numerous stories submitted here about this YC-affiliated company before, and, yes, I am painfully aware of the company founder's appalling lack of background in nutrition and medicine.
I find the HN hate for this guy incredible. The NSA is less loathed. Do you need to be a nutritionist with a PhD to open a restaurant? Why does he need to be one?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that you don't actually know where this guy learned his science and medicine. Let people experiment on themselves. IMO there are enough humans that if a few get slightly ill from this, it is worth it for the chance that it does work (which seems significant given the experimentation he did on himself, the presence of similar, competing products, etc.).
Absolutely. It's one thing to experiment with your own body, it something else entirely to sell a product with no scientific backing as a cure-all for all variety of ailments.
I'm really interested in learning more. I like the concept but am also wary of the science behind it. Is there a legitimate/credible scientific review of it out there?
EDIT: And even here micronutrient powders are nothing new. See the link to DSM embedded in WFP page above. Here's their corporate page (http://www.dsm.com/corporate/investors.html). They're pretty big.
Note that an important part of Soylent, which is offloaded onto the consumer, is a source of clean water. Much of the world, especially in the target hungry world market, does not have access to clean water. I think people would criticise Soylent for that, so it's something for them to be thinking about.
I have no idea how Soylent is in anyway "disruptive" to that market.
Ignoring the "fixing world hunger" bit, liquid foods are not new. Here's a list:
Again - I have no idea how Soylent are disruptive.
Selling into other markets is interesting. I hope they've put disclaimers on some of the more outrageous claims, or they may find resistance. For example "For anyone who struggles with allergies, heartburn, acid reflux or digestion, has trouble controlling weight or cholesterol, or simply doesn't have the means to eat well, soylent is for you." contains medical claims which are treated very differently in the UK than they are in the US.
I see no evidence that Soylent have done any research at all.
I agree. I buy local from the farmer's market and I buy raw and fresh, I have lost more weight just eating like a caveman than any fad diet has done for any of my co-workers or friends.
The following is ideal for me:
1. raw/fresh food
2. general fitness every day
3. intermittent fasting once or twice a week
Food has a lasting effect on the body, some of which science is yet to understand, I'll stick with what I can hunt and pick from the wild.
I doubt they really care about HN's opinion given the vast number of criticisms put forward, but I do really hope that they'd post more product information, perhaps more of the science, more of the research. Again, as I've said before, hiring a few more relevant scientists would help with their credibility, and might it be possible? -- improve their product. That is all. May there be no more flamewars.
(Granted, I've stopped following this story, so my information might be way out of date)
I just skimmed through their discussion board for a while, and it seems they are planning to employ a couple of industry experts (whatever that means) fulltime or for consultation with the money they made from their crowdfunding campaign.
I believe in a previously shared blog post, the founder mentioned that he was planning a "large-scale controlled trial". However, I haven't seen any additional details about these plans.
I really like the idea but am hesitant at this early stage to buy soylent. If the general impression is still good after it has been on the market for quite a while I am pretty sure I will order. I don't think I could switch completely, but it sounds like the perfect food to have when you just don't want to invest time to cook something. This would definately be better than to just have a pizza.
Here's how you create a Soylent without losing the DIY aesthetic:
1) You make it an open source project under an open license, OpenSoylent
2) You leave any health claims to be made by the OpenSoylent community. If this is unsatisfactory, you put out a bounty for MetaMed to write an independent report on the OpenSoylent wiki with references.
3) You accept people's patches to OpenSoylent
4) You create a separate, unaffilliated company to provide Soylent(tm), an implementation of OpenSoylent, with zero health claims, in a commercial kitchen, and link back to the OpenSoylent wiki for more information
Whether the above is legal or not, I'm not certain, but A) it's a hell of a lot closer than the present situation, and B) it doesn't offend geeks who apply critical thought to businesses that blog.
I was interested when it was one guy on a mission for himself. I've become less so now that its clear he wanted to go worldwide with this as soon as possible.
I do not wish the project ill will, but I won't be signing on at this time unless things (re: testing) get a lot more transparent.
When huge numbers of people take intense interest in your hobby and keep shouting "shut up and take my money!", to the tune of millions of dollars, it kinda motivates you to go worldwide with it as soon as possible.
More power to Soylent to monetize this, become a business just like Ensure or Slim Fast (succumbing to all the commercial pressures such products face, like, "Y'know, let's drop pricey molybdenum and just encourage people to have normal food once a day.")
I guess I was way more excited about the project when I thought he was starting a discussion where we can all pool information on self experimentation to help each other generate a cheap, nutritionally complete chemical sludge.
I'm not liking how they are going about this at all. They should ensure it is safe first before trying to sell everywhere. I don't like the perception of their intents.
If someone tells you, "hey, the cook spit in your food" -- it doesn't matter if the cook actually did, you're going to be grossed out by the food because you're in an icky state of mind.
So, while I know Soylent is not made out of people, it just makes the product less appetizing than it would otherwise be.
However, maybe this is just a problem for people who dig old scifi.
How the heck are people enthusiastic about this? Are there really that many people that take no enjoyment from the flavours, colours, textures and smells of the food they eat? And that's not to mention the fact that the body craves variety, the need for which it manifests by making you feel sick of eating the same thing over and over again.
Care to cite how the body makes one feel sick for eating the same again and again granted that the food delivers required nutrients with no deficiencies?
I have no personal experience nor have I ever heard of this occuring, although I have never heard of someone actually following such a diet either.
Yep. I hate cooking, and honestly I end up eating like the same exact 5 meals every week. Apparently there are $500000 worth of us, so there's a market.
I've checked with someone in the industry[1], and yes, Soylent would be required to be regulated by the FDA and the like.
[1] Conflict of interest, as they work for a potential competitor in the market. However they come from a medical background, and put patient health first. Surprising exactly how important nutrition is, actually!
[+] [-] jgrahamc|12 years ago|reply
It would appear that to get the same nutrients as Soylent I would need to drink 4 bottles of Ensure Complete per day. From the Abbott store they are $41.99 for 16 bottles: a week's supply works out at $73.48. Very close to Soylent pricing.
What makes Soylent better?
[+] [-] uncoder0|12 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensure
[+] [-] rosser|12 years ago|reply
AFAICT, though, the only "better" about Soylent is that it's, like, disruptive.
[+] [-] ChikkaChiChi|12 years ago|reply
Ensure is a food replacement that has a long history of helping people with medical concerns. My great-grandmother lived mostly on this stuff while going through chemo.
So far as I know, Ensure has never been advertised as the magic bullet to replace every food ever.
[+] [-] wcfields|12 years ago|reply
http://www.abbottstore.com/therapeutic-nutrition/jevity+reg/...
Comes in many varieties of being calorie dense, and can work out to almost 50 cents a day at 1200 cal diet.
[+] [-] mixmastamyk|12 years ago|reply
Looks like 4 bottles would be 204g total carbs, 80g of it sugar. Not as bad I was expecting, but not great. Soylent claims 200g carbs, but there is no further breakdown. From its positioning I'd guess it is lower, but I can't confirm it yet.
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ndr|12 years ago|reply
I'd be interested as well.
[+] [-] scott_karana|12 years ago|reply
It looks more like a meal substitute (liquid nutrition bar) than a food substitute.
[+] [-] FatalBaboon|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tokenadult|12 years ago|reply
AFTER EDIT: I have read the numerous stories submitted here about this YC-affiliated company before, and, yes, I am painfully aware of the company founder's appalling lack of background in nutrition and medicine.
http://blog.soylent.me/post/51007573199/the-biggest-pivot-in...
[+] [-] Afforess|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jamesaguilar|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chasing|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zallarak|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DanBC|12 years ago|reply
Here's the list of WFP food products (https://www.wfp.org/nutrition/special-nutritional-products) - especially look at the price. I guess they're making full use of charitable status and economies of scale.
Here's Plumpy'Nut, a fortified food product for starving children (http://www.irinnews.org/report/83124/malawi-cheaper-recipe-f...)
EDIT: And even here micronutrient powders are nothing new. See the link to DSM embedded in WFP page above. Here's their corporate page (http://www.dsm.com/corporate/investors.html). They're pretty big.
Note that an important part of Soylent, which is offloaded onto the consumer, is a source of clean water. Much of the world, especially in the target hungry world market, does not have access to clean water. I think people would criticise Soylent for that, so it's something for them to be thinking about.
I have no idea how Soylent is in anyway "disruptive" to that market.
Ignoring the "fixing world hunger" bit, liquid foods are not new. Here's a list:
(http://ensure.com/) Ensure
(https://www.nutricia.co.uk/fortisip//) Fortisip
(http://www.complan.com/) Complan
(http://abbottnutrition.com/brands/abbott-brands) Abbott Nutrition Brands
(http://www.medifast1.com/index.jsp) Medifast
(http://www.optifast.com/Pages/index.aspx) Optifast
(http://www.slim-fast.com/products/) Slimfast
Again - I have no idea how Soylent are disruptive.
Selling into other markets is interesting. I hope they've put disclaimers on some of the more outrageous claims, or they may find resistance. For example "For anyone who struggles with allergies, heartburn, acid reflux or digestion, has trouble controlling weight or cholesterol, or simply doesn't have the means to eat well, soylent is for you." contains medical claims which are treated very differently in the UK than they are in the US.
I see no evidence that Soylent have done any research at all.
[+] [-] tasuki|12 years ago|reply
Vegetables steamed in the microwave take less than 5 minutes to prepare. (More on my eating habits: http://blog.tasuki.org/how-i-didnt-stop-eating-food/)
I think eating only Soylent exposes you to a significant risk of missing something vital that we usually get incidentally from regular food.
[+] [-] aroch|12 years ago|reply
How the hell does it take 15mins to prep scrambled eggs? It should take less than 5 and your cleanup should take all of a minute
1. Put Small/medium saucepan on stove
2. Add 1/2 Tbsp butter
3. Crack 2 eggs into pan (Do no beat beforehand)
4. Put pan on mid-low flame and stir briskly for 2-3mins or until eggs are at a runny-curds texture (soft but "together").
5. Plate
[+] [-] zeroexzeroone|12 years ago|reply
1. raw/fresh food 2. general fitness every day 3. intermittent fasting once or twice a week
Food has a lasting effect on the body, some of which science is yet to understand, I'll stick with what I can hunt and pick from the wild.
[+] [-] jckt|12 years ago|reply
(Granted, I've stopped following this story, so my information might be way out of date)
[+] [-] schabernakk|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jljljl|12 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5815108
[+] [-] schabernakk|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mapt|12 years ago|reply
1) You make it an open source project under an open license, OpenSoylent
2) You leave any health claims to be made by the OpenSoylent community. If this is unsatisfactory, you put out a bounty for MetaMed to write an independent report on the OpenSoylent wiki with references.
3) You accept people's patches to OpenSoylent
4) You create a separate, unaffilliated company to provide Soylent(tm), an implementation of OpenSoylent, with zero health claims, in a commercial kitchen, and link back to the OpenSoylent wiki for more information
Whether the above is legal or not, I'm not certain, but A) it's a hell of a lot closer than the present situation, and B) it doesn't offend geeks who apply critical thought to businesses that blog.
[+] [-] ChikkaChiChi|12 years ago|reply
I do not wish the project ill will, but I won't be signing on at this time unless things (re: testing) get a lot more transparent.
[+] [-] ctdonath|12 years ago|reply
You know, what ycombinator is all about.
[+] [-] brownbat|12 years ago|reply
More power to Soylent to monetize this, become a business just like Ensure or Slim Fast (succumbing to all the commercial pressures such products face, like, "Y'know, let's drop pricey molybdenum and just encourage people to have normal food once a day.")
I guess I was way more excited about the project when I thought he was starting a discussion where we can all pool information on self experimentation to help each other generate a cheap, nutritionally complete chemical sludge.
[+] [-] superkamiguru|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Afforess|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] troels|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fredsted|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nostromo|12 years ago|reply
If someone tells you, "hey, the cook spit in your food" -- it doesn't matter if the cook actually did, you're going to be grossed out by the food because you're in an icky state of mind.
So, while I know Soylent is not made out of people, it just makes the product less appetizing than it would otherwise be.
However, maybe this is just a problem for people who dig old scifi.
[+] [-] jack-r-abbit|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] axefrog|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zxcdw|12 years ago|reply
I have no personal experience nor have I ever heard of this occuring, although I have never heard of someone actually following such a diet either.
[+] [-] Afforess|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] t0|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fredsted|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mixmastamyk|12 years ago|reply
Also, I think the difficulty in preparing food part is overblown. Haven't any of these guys heard of Trader Joe's?
[+] [-] mdisraeli|12 years ago|reply
[1] Conflict of interest, as they work for a potential competitor in the market. However they come from a medical background, and put patient health first. Surprising exactly how important nutrition is, actually!
[+] [-] tocomment|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Afforess|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DiabloD3|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pjv|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jff|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] olgeni|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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