I worked at an Apple store for over a year as a "salesperson" (we called them Mac Specialists at the time). Let me input my two cents:
I was trained to do this. From day one of dedicated 8-hour training sessions, we're trained to find customers the right "solution" rather than get the most money. This requires using the APPLE technique (acronym, google it). The second P stands for "Present a solution for the customer to take home today." It was common knowledge at the time (4 years ago) that consumers were brainwashed to thinking faster/more is always better. But when we can save them hundreds of dollars, this isn't the case. There were many many times I talked someone out of a $2,000 MacBook Pro for a $1200 entry-level iMac with double the specs because after probing (the first "P") I learned they didn't need to be mobile. This was really, really common.
And note, this isn't about trying to convince people to spend less. Sometimes after probing, we learned they needed _more_. It is about the RIGHT solution.
To add to this: specialists don't earn commission. We weren't ranked based on financial sales numbers (there are other metrics, however). There is no incentive for specialists to sell more expensive or less expensive things. It is about the right thing.
So, this guy was just doing what he was trained to do. It is Apple store standard.
I came here meaning to be all snarky and cynical. I was going to say there's no way Apple trained him to do that, and they'd probably fire him when they caught on to what he was doing.
Thanks for posting this and letting me know I was wrong. I still am puzzled. Apple is not shy about squeezing the bucks out of consumers. But this shows a level of customer-orientation that I didn't expect to see.
Another former Apple retail specialist checking in. This is pretty much dead on. I redirected people to different models than they thought they wanted plenty of times after talking with them to dig up their needs. Sometimes cheaper, sometimes more expensive, but always to better fit their needs. Having also worked at Best Buy, where bleeding people dry was common (at least at my store), I can tell you it's a much different atmosphere.
Another interesting point, which echoes what others have said about life-long customers and word of mouth advertising, Apple collects customer surveys. Only extremely high scores count positively for the specialist. Those people are considered to have had such a good experience that they would actually promote their experience to others that they know.
I agree that Apple, as the case is at every brick-and-mortar store that I'm loyal to (B&H Photo has often talked me out of expensive purchases), has a great incentive to not oversell an unneeded product.
However, I think we need more data on recommendations before we can argue that the intent is entirely altruistic. As others have said, the low-end model is also the same model as the "Vanilla" build, i.e. the model that Apple has plenty of in stock...and a purchase in-store (with the possibility of upselling on other accessories) is more valuable than a purchase from the web. If it's the case that Apple sells a disproportionate amount of its Vanilla stock in-store, then is it coincidence that the Vanilla stock happens to be the perfect fit for so many customers? How many slightly-upgraded (but not in-stock) models are customers convinced to buy...because there has to be at least a few customers for whom the MBP is not ideal, but a slightly upgraded MBA is needed.
And if you want to be totally cynical, you could argue that Apple is ensuring that the customer returns in the nearer future by selling them a less future-proof model. Yes, customers have loyalty based on the reliability of the brand...but if the compassionate-sales-job is so effective, then that alone may be good enough of a memory for the customer to overlook that he/she is replacing a new laptop a year earlier than expected.
Thanks for this insight from your experience. I was going to comment question this takeaway from the OP:
"Apple recognizes what few other retailers do: customer satisfaction starts even before a product is purchased, and it is customer satisfaction that makes companies great."
I had expected this was just an idiosyncrasy of that particular salesperson, but you make a good case that Apple intends for this behavior to be common. Thanks!
So to be clear about this you're saying that if you walk into an apple store and have already decided to purchase a particular model that Apple says that you should ask the customer why they need that particular model? Or just if they ask you?
I agree and have seen this in action. My last MBP I had to buy in store to get a certain discount. At first I was annoyed that the salesperson kept probing while waiting for the other salesperson to get my MBP. After a bit of back and forth he explained exactly what you did here. He wanted to make sure I was getting what I needed and if it saved me money in the process so be it. So props to Apple and it's another reason why I've stuck with Apple laptops since the G4 Powerbook days.
Apple seem to have completely stopped carrying anything but the base models of the Macbook Air 11" and 13" in their stores, which may at least partially explain his pushing you to downgrade your choice.
I remember picking up my fully-loaded 13" from the store a couple of generations ago, so this is likely a new decision (or temporary while they figure out supply and demand). I strongly recommend the 8GB RAM upgrade, RAM gets eaten up really easily and is definitely worth the extra $100.
Ideally, he would have told you that the extra RAM might be useful, and also let you know that any upgrades would require delivery to the store or to you directly.
While he is right that you may not ever need the CPU resources, the RAM I would argue is necessary (plus it's only $100 and will overall make a HUGE difference).
Ram is one of those things you can almost never get enough of. I am a heavy chrome user (and general system user), and I cringe anytime it's less than 8GB because it requires much more tab management for me. Which may be better for me to do, but I keep a large amount of misc work in various chrome windows and tabs, and closing it isn't necessary for me.
Along with that, I'm often running a bunch of other apps. CPU is never usually a problem, but RAM definitely is.
That being said, you're probably fine with the base model, but I certainly would at least max the ram. :)
Yeah there really isn't a reason to not get more RAM in a PC. Everything else is debatable. The CPU in particular the guy was right on. I'd say the SSD is a wash.
I was quite disappointed to see that after the latest upgrade the air still doesn't support more then 8 gb. If I buy a machine for the next few years, I want more ram than the current 2008 MacBook Pro I have...
Apple isn't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. They're doing it because it will make you buy their products more often. It's a smart way to do business.
Buyers remorse is also bad for business. If you feel the extra $700 you spent on top of the, relatively, high sticker price of your laptop* wasn't worth it, you're not as likely to be a return customer. That's my experience from the days I spent selling swords ($300-$5000 range for reference) in a martial arts supply shop.
*I feel like Ultrabooks have helped Apple's image by making the Air seem about the right price for a nice laptop.
Yes, but unlike with PC laptops there is a real resale market. I upgrade my macbook every other year or so, and it usually just costs me a few hundred dollars after selling my old machine. Upgrading just the RAM or HDD would be cheaper, but wouldn't also be much of an upgrade compared to getting a new machine.
I suspect the MacBook Air is as successful as it is because most people want portability a lot more than they need raw power. I wouldn't build a render farm out of 11" MacBook Airs, but I bet they're a lot easier to pull out on a crowded flight than my 15" MacBook Pro.
This does raise an interesting question: how often do normal users grow past their hardware's limits?
I'm not a typical laptop user. My machine serves as a portable desktop replacement, and I spawn virtual machines to work on software for Linux and Windows. Even so, my 4-year-old machine is serving me pretty well. It wasn't the base model, but its specs are pretty pathetic by modern standards.
It doesn't take a mini supercomputer to maintain a photo collection and edit documents. Some people will be satisfied with a base model MacBook Air for a good while.
Though I admit, buying a machine with 4GB RAM today is a bit sketchy. Maybe the SSD cures it, but OS X does not take heavy swapping well at all.
My wife went back to school this year, and she needed a laptop, so I got her one for christmas. I went with the base model 11" air because that's what I would have bought if I was getting it for me.
She hated it. I couldn't believe it. "The screen is too small", "I can't play warcraft 3 on it" (ok legit gripe, war3 doesn't work, and she still plays that game!) "I don't like the way the track pad works"
Admittedly, the track pad default settings leave a little to be desired. I made a few tweaks to her setup, and it worked a lot better.
I asked her the other day how she feels about her laptop now, with 6 months use under her belt. She loves it, as I knew she would.
Next laptop I buy for myself will be a 11" air. I'm no apple fan boy, but it is the highest quality laptop you can get. But if you've found a better one for the same price, please let me know
Yeah, I had the same experience, but in my case it was pretty negative actually. My fiancé went to the mac store with me looking to buy a mbp and while i was perusing accessories etc... mostly wandering around the store, she struck up a conversation with a sales guy. The sales guy's read was "this girl needs much less than she thinks" and he proceeded to try to downsell her to an air. Now I'm sure the air works just fine, but in her case, she's a web dev and works with video editing in her spare time. Not absurd to want a mbp. Anyway, the guy just thought GIRL = Macbook Air. No further analysis needed. Only when I showed up and talked to the guy did he back off... We talked about how strange it was that we needed to strong arm a salesman into paying more. Truly hard selling us on less. It was downright offensive for him to read her so poorly on account of her gender and it put us off. Not that it's changed my fan-boi status...
You might not be better off for buying the lower-spec model. Especially on RAM, which at today's prices doesn't make sense not to max out. You may actually find yourself needing to upgrade your machine sooner than you previously would have (which has non-financial costs in data migration).
That said, I think the Apple Store employees know when someone is dead set on exactly what they need (which the OP obviously wasn't). I walked in and stated the exact machine I needed and they said, "just a minute" and got it for me without another word.
I bought a base level MBA 13" 2 years ago. 5 weeks before the refresh to Core i series, and I've lived with it since and it's been an interesting experience.
At the time it the specs seemed reasonably good, but a 1.86Ghz C2D with 2GB of RAM and 128GB SSD aren't exactly fantastic in modern context. However, I've found I need significantly less resources than I used to think I needed and in general I only bump up against it when I've got multiple XCode windows open, with the iOS Simulator running, with Sublime, Spotify, a fully stocked Chrome and so on.
I'm buying a new MBA some point in the next few weeks, and with the exception of the SSD (I don't really need the 500GB option) I'll most likely max everything else. I know I don't need the headroom now but I'm going to spend somewhere in the region of £1.4k on a machine for me now, and then I'll have a new laptop for my girlfriend in 2 years time, and she'll get 2 years use out of it. I don't think 4GB of RAM in 4 years time is going to cut it given that just web browsing alone these days uses so much.
The great thing about Apple products is that for the most part, they're very, very hardy machines. I have a MacBook (plain, old boring MacBook) that's nearing it's 7th year in service. With no upgrades. Spending £210 now adds another couple of comfortable years of use, and that's worth it to me.
As somebody who's really feeling the squeeze now from skimping on RAM / SSD from my MBA purchase in 2011, I'm tempted to say he should have stuck with his first instinct. You can't upgrade the damn thing later, so do it right the first time!
BTW, by "optimizing" laptop to customer needs, they sell machine less future-proof, which will result in sooner upgrade. I always believed that companies make more money on entry-level models than on professional ones. (not just apple)
I don't have numbers or sources to back it up, but in my experience at least, people who were satisfied with an entry-level model didn't keep track of newer models and weren't interested in "upgrading" unless the thing was about to die or there were substantial benefits.
I must say, as an iPhoto user who currently is drowning in a mountain of around 30k photos, this salesperson did you a great disservice by recommending you get a standard platter external HDD instead of opting for the larger built-in SSD (or even a thunderbolt connected external SSD). iPhoto absolutely starts to crawl with enough photos and videos thrown at it, to the point where the speed of an SSD is all but required.
What makes it 'start to crawl'? I'm inexperienced in dealing with iPhoto and large datasets.
I'd agree more with you if you said the sales person did a disservice by not recommending the RAM upgrade as thats not possible to do after the purchase. The author can still upgrade the SSD from OWC in the future.
I once witnesses a woman deciding between $2,000 and $2,500 machine, and one of the differences was something about graphics. So she asks "is graphics important for Netflix" and the sales guy goes like "oh yeah".
But yeah, it's also a problem of American consumers who have so much money they don't know what to do with them. :-/
Ugh - I am constantly at the limit of my 256GB SSD and it is very annoying. Unfortunately in the MB Air there is no way to swap the SSD for a bigger one... So I'd go with the 512GB any day. Before the Air, I used to always upgrade HD and memory at least once in my computers before getting a new one.
True, the main problem might be photos, and presumably even 512GB would fill up quickly these days. But external HDs just seem like an ugly solution. Also I already have an external HD attached for backups most of the time, which means I should carry two external HDs (one for backups, one for photos - and backup for photos is especially important)?
Maybe cloud services are the only solution? Have to look into that 1 TB option on Flickr...
I agree that you don't always know when you purchase something what you're going to use it for. I got the 16GB iPad and never ever expected to run out of storage space. I didn't know about all the great games you could play on it, and how that (together with ebooks and other stuff) really adds up. If someone had asked me what I'd use it for back then, I would have answered "web browsing and reading ebooks". That changed in the first couple of months though. In hindsight I really wish I had at least 32GB.
A similar thing goes for the laptop/desktop example given above. I recently bought a laptop for my parents and the salesperson tried to talk them out of it as well, because they weren't going to travel with it. I think a laptop (with an external screen if it is used a lot) is so much more useful for most people than a desktop, simply because of it's portability inside their home, even without any travel. Now they can sit next to their partner instead of in the separate computer room upstairs. Or (if there was no computer room upstairs) they can put it in the closet when they're done and don't have a big computer taking up space in the living room all the time. And it's way easier to take it with me on public transport if there's something wrong with it. I really felt that the "are you planning on taking it with you while traveling" is the wrong question when it comes to deciding between desktop and laptop, especially for most people when the extra power that a desktop gives is totally insignificant for word processing and web browsing. A laptop (not a top of the line one) was definitely the best option for my parents, and I'm glad I was there so that the salesperson did not succeed in talking them out of that with the best of intentions.
While waiting for Genius appointments and friends to get something done in Apple stores, I've seen salespeople talk customers out of higher priced items more than once. And they do it the right way: asking what you want to do with the computer and then finding the right level of machine for those needs.
I suspected that this was part of the training programme, precisely because it creates happier customers with a good story to share.
[+] [-] mitchellh|12 years ago|reply
I was trained to do this. From day one of dedicated 8-hour training sessions, we're trained to find customers the right "solution" rather than get the most money. This requires using the APPLE technique (acronym, google it). The second P stands for "Present a solution for the customer to take home today." It was common knowledge at the time (4 years ago) that consumers were brainwashed to thinking faster/more is always better. But when we can save them hundreds of dollars, this isn't the case. There were many many times I talked someone out of a $2,000 MacBook Pro for a $1200 entry-level iMac with double the specs because after probing (the first "P") I learned they didn't need to be mobile. This was really, really common.
And note, this isn't about trying to convince people to spend less. Sometimes after probing, we learned they needed _more_. It is about the RIGHT solution.
To add to this: specialists don't earn commission. We weren't ranked based on financial sales numbers (there are other metrics, however). There is no incentive for specialists to sell more expensive or less expensive things. It is about the right thing.
So, this guy was just doing what he was trained to do. It is Apple store standard.
[+] [-] charlieflowers|12 years ago|reply
Thanks for posting this and letting me know I was wrong. I still am puzzled. Apple is not shy about squeezing the bucks out of consumers. But this shows a level of customer-orientation that I didn't expect to see.
[+] [-] azurelogic|12 years ago|reply
Another interesting point, which echoes what others have said about life-long customers and word of mouth advertising, Apple collects customer surveys. Only extremely high scores count positively for the specialist. Those people are considered to have had such a good experience that they would actually promote their experience to others that they know.
[+] [-] danso|12 years ago|reply
However, I think we need more data on recommendations before we can argue that the intent is entirely altruistic. As others have said, the low-end model is also the same model as the "Vanilla" build, i.e. the model that Apple has plenty of in stock...and a purchase in-store (with the possibility of upselling on other accessories) is more valuable than a purchase from the web. If it's the case that Apple sells a disproportionate amount of its Vanilla stock in-store, then is it coincidence that the Vanilla stock happens to be the perfect fit for so many customers? How many slightly-upgraded (but not in-stock) models are customers convinced to buy...because there has to be at least a few customers for whom the MBP is not ideal, but a slightly upgraded MBA is needed.
And if you want to be totally cynical, you could argue that Apple is ensuring that the customer returns in the nearer future by selling them a less future-proof model. Yes, customers have loyalty based on the reliability of the brand...but if the compassionate-sales-job is so effective, then that alone may be good enough of a memory for the customer to overlook that he/she is replacing a new laptop a year earlier than expected.
[+] [-] tsm|12 years ago|reply
Approach and welcome the customer.
Probe to understand their problem.
Present your solution to their problem. (And make sure something happens now.)
Listen for lingering issues.
End with a polite good-bye and ask them to come back.
[+] [-] dylangs1030|12 years ago|reply
"Apple recognizes what few other retailers do: customer satisfaction starts even before a product is purchased, and it is customer satisfaction that makes companies great."
I had expected this was just an idiosyncrasy of that particular salesperson, but you make a good case that Apple intends for this behavior to be common. Thanks!
[+] [-] larrys|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matwood|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sinak|12 years ago|reply
Use the "check availability" sidebar link here to see what I mean: http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MD712LL/A?
I remember picking up my fully-loaded 13" from the store a couple of generations ago, so this is likely a new decision (or temporary while they figure out supply and demand). I strongly recommend the 8GB RAM upgrade, RAM gets eaten up really easily and is definitely worth the extra $100.
Ideally, he would have told you that the extra RAM might be useful, and also let you know that any upgrades would require delivery to the store or to you directly.
[+] [-] aalbertson|12 years ago|reply
Ram is one of those things you can almost never get enough of. I am a heavy chrome user (and general system user), and I cringe anytime it's less than 8GB because it requires much more tab management for me. Which may be better for me to do, but I keep a large amount of misc work in various chrome windows and tabs, and closing it isn't necessary for me.
Along with that, I'm often running a bunch of other apps. CPU is never usually a problem, but RAM definitely is.
That being said, you're probably fine with the base model, but I certainly would at least max the ram. :)
[+] [-] hashtree|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jmuguy|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PanMan|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] kbar13|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beloch|12 years ago|reply
+
Upgrade unfriendly hardware
=
Faster obsolescence cycle.
Apple isn't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. They're doing it because it will make you buy their products more often. It's a smart way to do business.
[+] [-] Moto7451|12 years ago|reply
*I feel like Ultrabooks have helped Apple's image by making the Air seem about the right price for a nice laptop.
[+] [-] rayiner|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LnxPrgr3|12 years ago|reply
I suspect the MacBook Air is as successful as it is because most people want portability a lot more than they need raw power. I wouldn't build a render farm out of 11" MacBook Airs, but I bet they're a lot easier to pull out on a crowded flight than my 15" MacBook Pro.
This does raise an interesting question: how often do normal users grow past their hardware's limits?
I'm not a typical laptop user. My machine serves as a portable desktop replacement, and I spawn virtual machines to work on software for Linux and Windows. Even so, my 4-year-old machine is serving me pretty well. It wasn't the base model, but its specs are pretty pathetic by modern standards.
It doesn't take a mini supercomputer to maintain a photo collection and edit documents. Some people will be satisfied with a base model MacBook Air for a good while.
Though I admit, buying a machine with 4GB RAM today is a bit sketchy. Maybe the SSD cures it, but OS X does not take heavy swapping well at all.
[+] [-] doktrin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DigitalJack|12 years ago|reply
Going into the store and finding out you can't get what you want right there on the spot means you will likely walk out empty handed.
If the sales person can convince you that you really want the vanilla model that is actually in the store, that's money.
[+] [-] malbs|12 years ago|reply
She hated it. I couldn't believe it. "The screen is too small", "I can't play warcraft 3 on it" (ok legit gripe, war3 doesn't work, and she still plays that game!) "I don't like the way the track pad works"
Admittedly, the track pad default settings leave a little to be desired. I made a few tweaks to her setup, and it worked a lot better.
I asked her the other day how she feels about her laptop now, with 6 months use under her belt. She loves it, as I knew she would.
Next laptop I buy for myself will be a 11" air. I'm no apple fan boy, but it is the highest quality laptop you can get. But if you've found a better one for the same price, please let me know
[+] [-] smaili|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rz2k|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] samstave|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] interpol_p|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _pmf_|12 years ago|reply
I think this statement is some local maximum of the reality distortion field.
Being able to only upgrade at the vendor's shop at a premium rate is "easy", yes. But "easy" is certainly not the first term that comes to mind.
[+] [-] no-brainer|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] plonkus|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thufry|12 years ago|reply
That said, I think the Apple Store employees know when someone is dead set on exactly what they need (which the OP obviously wasn't). I walked in and stated the exact machine I needed and they said, "just a minute" and got it for me without another word.
[+] [-] mrbuttons454|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] tuananh|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nicholassmith|12 years ago|reply
At the time it the specs seemed reasonably good, but a 1.86Ghz C2D with 2GB of RAM and 128GB SSD aren't exactly fantastic in modern context. However, I've found I need significantly less resources than I used to think I needed and in general I only bump up against it when I've got multiple XCode windows open, with the iOS Simulator running, with Sublime, Spotify, a fully stocked Chrome and so on.
I'm buying a new MBA some point in the next few weeks, and with the exception of the SSD (I don't really need the 500GB option) I'll most likely max everything else. I know I don't need the headroom now but I'm going to spend somewhere in the region of £1.4k on a machine for me now, and then I'll have a new laptop for my girlfriend in 2 years time, and she'll get 2 years use out of it. I don't think 4GB of RAM in 4 years time is going to cut it given that just web browsing alone these days uses so much.
The great thing about Apple products is that for the most part, they're very, very hardy machines. I have a MacBook (plain, old boring MacBook) that's nearing it's 7th year in service. With no upgrades. Spending £210 now adds another couple of comfortable years of use, and that's worth it to me.
[+] [-] drkevorkian|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hippich|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yojimbo311|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] marknutter|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dekz|12 years ago|reply
I'd agree more with you if you said the sales person did a disservice by not recommending the RAM upgrade as thats not possible to do after the purchase. The author can still upgrade the SSD from OWC in the future.
[+] [-] Void_|12 years ago|reply
I once witnesses a woman deciding between $2,000 and $2,500 machine, and one of the differences was something about graphics. So she asks "is graphics important for Netflix" and the sales guy goes like "oh yeah".
But yeah, it's also a problem of American consumers who have so much money they don't know what to do with them. :-/
[+] [-] genwin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tichy|12 years ago|reply
True, the main problem might be photos, and presumably even 512GB would fill up quickly these days. But external HDs just seem like an ugly solution. Also I already have an external HD attached for backups most of the time, which means I should carry two external HDs (one for backups, one for photos - and backup for photos is especially important)?
Maybe cloud services are the only solution? Have to look into that 1 TB option on Flickr...
[+] [-] ValentineC|12 years ago|reply
[1] http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Air_2012 (I'm using MacBook Air 2012 as a reference point, but there are SSDs for the other versions too.)
[2] http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+MacBook+Air+13-Inch+M...
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] lena|12 years ago|reply
A similar thing goes for the laptop/desktop example given above. I recently bought a laptop for my parents and the salesperson tried to talk them out of it as well, because they weren't going to travel with it. I think a laptop (with an external screen if it is used a lot) is so much more useful for most people than a desktop, simply because of it's portability inside their home, even without any travel. Now they can sit next to their partner instead of in the separate computer room upstairs. Or (if there was no computer room upstairs) they can put it in the closet when they're done and don't have a big computer taking up space in the living room all the time. And it's way easier to take it with me on public transport if there's something wrong with it. I really felt that the "are you planning on taking it with you while traveling" is the wrong question when it comes to deciding between desktop and laptop, especially for most people when the extra power that a desktop gives is totally insignificant for word processing and web browsing. A laptop (not a top of the line one) was definitely the best option for my parents, and I'm glad I was there so that the salesperson did not succeed in talking them out of that with the best of intentions.
[+] [-] tsieling|12 years ago|reply
I suspected that this was part of the training programme, precisely because it creates happier customers with a good story to share.