The part about being viewed suspiciously at the playground was particularly awful.
Why is it that we as a society are so fucking fearful? We have an irrational fear of communists, socialists, terrorists, serial killers, sex offenders, and of course, child molesters and abductors. Everyone thinks that there is someone out there who is out to hurt them and their family. Like, that is the default assumption, and people's subsequent behaviors (such as pulling their kid closer) is based on it.
A non-parent man sitting at a playground bench and reading his paper is very, very likely to get the cops called on him, even though he's on public property. Is this right?
Speaking as a dad, I hate taking my boys to the playground for the same reason. Moms see "man unaccompanied by woman, must be a predator" - I make a big show out of interacting with my boys and obviously being their father, but it's really grating that it's even necessary at all.
As to the culture of fear, I blame local news. It's wall-to-wall with alternating RAPISTS EVERYWHERE and LOOKIT THE CUTE PUPPIES, because those are the only stories that can compete with other news media. Telling people that they should be terrified (your neighbor is probably a child molester! Full story at 10!) is an extremely powerful tool, and people eat it up.
As a parent, I can understand those moms' reactions, even if I don't condone them. My kids are the most precious thing in the world to me, and I would rather err on the side of caution than ever let something truly traumatic happen to them. But, I think there's a line between being vigilant and being paralyzed in fear because someone with a penis is within 200 yards of your kid.
Am I the only dad out there that constantly takes my daughter to the park / science center / library alone ... and doesn't feel the least bit weird about it?
In 3 years I've received nothing but smiles and conversation for doing this.
Maybe it's a Canadian thing ...
Why is it that we as a society are so fucking fearful?
If you ask me? Because we are hard-wired for fear. Ten thousand years ago, it kept you alive. Today, there is not much left to fear- but we are built to fear, so we find something to fear.
>Why is it that we as a society are so fucking fearful? We have an irrational fear of communists, socialists, terrorists, serial killers, sex offenders, and of course, child molesters and abductors.
1) Because due to egotism, greed and lack of communal values, we have fucked up normal operation of society, and they are indeed are more prevalent than they were.
2) Because of watching them all the time in "entertainment", thus creating the impression that they are even more than the already too many that they are.
3) Because it's a good racket in order to sell "protection", a trillion dollar business, from politicians passing all the more extreme laws, to surveillance, to arms business, etc.
4) Because people themselves have stiffened up and treat other people like enemies even in casual urban situations, and treat their kids like they're prisoners for their own "safety".
Think that's bad in a Western country? Try being a white guy taking your Filipina girlfriend's daughter to school or anywhere else. You're a white guy with a little girl in the country which is supposedly a destination for pedophiles.
I think it's all in his head though. He is probably projecting his fears of what people think about him. And why would you care what parents at a playground think of you anyways?
I became a stay-at-home dad when my son was born 3.5 years ago, by choice, because parenting is what I want to do with my life. My wife wanted a technical career, and went back to work as soon as she was able. More recently, my sister (a single mom) and her little boy moved in with us. My sister works at the school down the street, and has a lot of other out-of-the-home commitments. Both my son and my nephew were in school for half of the day this last year, which meant I watched both of them every afternoon and many evenings, and was on call whenever there was a problem at school (both are special needs kids.)
Some of the challenges I've seen:
- I dress like a stay-at-home dad, complete with scraggly beard and sweatpants (no sense in getting peanut butter, pee, and play-doh on nice clothes!) When I'm out at the store without the kids, people look at me like I'm a predator. When I take a kid or two with me, they look at me like I'm a saint, much moreso than the moms who have kids with them. [EDIT: when I lived in small-town Utah for a while, taking a kid to the store got mixed reactions, with some thinking I was a saint and others thinking there was something wrong with me. In other areas, the reaction was almost uniformly "saint".]
- My grandfather grew up in an era of man works - woman does childcare. He's constantly asking me when I'm getting a job, and doesn't understand when I say "this is my job".
- I actually will be working outside the home, in a school, during the coming school year. A number of people have expressed sentiments along the lines of "good for you, glad you're finally doing something with your life", as if my son raised himself and I had nothing to do with it.
- I'm constantly hearing about support groups for parents, and they almost always have "mom" somewhere in the name. Some of them will say that dads are welcome too, but it's still awkward. The only real support group I have was accidental - a bunch of people from church were all getting together, and then everyone quit except for me and a few moms and our preschoolers.
My most irksome comments were "So... Giving mom the day off?" whenever someone would see me with my kids.
The most egregious thing to happen, was being kicked off of the local meetup for playdates... I assume I was approved to join the group because my first name is gender neutral.
Sometime between posting my profile pic (which included my kids) and attending my first meetup, I was removed from the group.
It was way back in 1992 that I radically reshaped my career plans, coincident with the birth of my first son (who, gratifyingly, is now grown up and supporting himself as a hacker for a startup). I read the comments here, read the fine article, and still don't completely grok that I have had much the same experience without as much surrounding cultural baggage. Predominantly "stay-at-home" (a better term might be "near young children") fathers have always been rare, yes, but they have been around for a long time. I have certainly always been able to go to public parks with my children (the first three of whom were boys) or to the library or other places with them.
I haven't heard a lot of the kinds of nasty comments that the author of this interesting submitted article appears to have heard all too often. For me, since we had children, it has been important to spend a lot of time with my children while they grow up. They are only young once each. Way back in the early 1970s, I thought, evidently overoptimistically, that women's liberation would be a force to make it possible for dads to spend more time with their children if the dads so chose. Maybe that doesn't happen as a matter of social reality everywhere, but that is the choice I made, and I'm not looking back. All of my children, the three boys and the one girl, are already thinking ahead about what kind of lifestyle trade-offs they will work out with their spouses when, as they hope, they have children of their own.
One cannot emphasize the author's point too much that taking care of young children is a lot of work that demands constant vigilance. Authors from the women's liberation perspective used to argue that that is one of the best reasons to hire former homemakers as they return to the outside-the-home paid labor force--it takes strong personal organization skills to take care of young children. I don't know if that's what big company employers really think, but it sure makes sense to me.
To be clear for onlookers new to my posts here, we are a homeschooling family, so the high parental involvement with children (again, not "stay at home" but "out and about with the children") has continued in our family even though our youngest child is above typical school-going age. We like this lifestyle, because we like what it appears to be doing for our children. There are trade-offs involved in any lifestyle choice that relates both to family and to work responsibilities, but there is plenty of time for working in anyone's day, and a lot of good memories that can be built up from quality family time.
Whilst I appreciate the discussion points around gender/sexism, I personally have felt more discrimination from the kids / no kids situation, on more than one occasion.
I recently interviewed at a large company and did very well on all the questions, connected with the interviewers, had long chats with the recruiter, etc - but didn't get the job. I suspect one of the reasons I didn't get the job was the fact that I mentioned my wife/kid. The team that I interviewed for were all fairly young (so am I) but I think the kid thing could've thrown them off.
This may just be an issue at and job level that I am applying at and I'm very prepared for the fact that it may have been because I didn't do as well as I thought, but I have no idea what else it could've been. Would be great to know if anyone else has ever felt this.
I agree with his experiences, and there would be more to add. For example our baby-friend families usually were connected via my wife (from birth preparation classes for example), so it was a bit harder/more awkward for me to call them up to hang out so that our kids could play together. That's not active discrimination, just stuff that happens.
I wanted to throw some other thought to HN: I've come to the conclusion that we won't see a big surge in "stay-at-home-daddying". I have nothing against it, but ultimately I think the rationale would be "why would I pay my babysitter half of my salary" (which is what a stay at home dad is getting)? It seems to me a mother still has a bigger claim to her children because she invested much more physically, so society will deem it more acceptable if she does the stay-at-home thing, getting paid more than a mere babysitter.
Or will it become feasible in the future to speculate on becoming a stay-at-home dad? For example (extreme to make a point) instead of taking on another career, take classes in cooking and home decoration in the expectation to one day take care of a home? It seems very unlikely to me, although of course there will be (and already are) lots of women who have and want interesting careers. But would they go forth and marry a guy with no skills but home honing?
Please spare me the sexism comments, I want to think rationally about this. (I personally don't care who stays at home). The point is that it is very viable to speculate on becoming a stay at home mother imo.
I forgot which country it was but one of the Nordic countries tried hard to get parental leave taken and in the end they had to make 2 of 6 months of (fully paid) leave exclusively for the father.
Once they did that and the family was actually leaving paid leave on the table otherwise, fathers are now nearing 40% of birth leave.
My 3 youngest were born within the span of 4 years. Any time I'm out with all 3, someone usually says "boy, you've got your hands full!" ... it's odd because (a) I find it quite easy to manage them and (b) no one has ever said that to my wife even though she gets "frazzled" (for lack of a better term) by them easier than I do.
One thing we as a society owe to a stay-at-home dad is, out of all things, cyberpunk. William Gibson famously found his interest in science fiction renewed and began to write while staying at home with his first child.
''In 1977, facing first-time parenthood and an absolute lack of enthusiasm for anything like "career," I found myself dusting off my twelve-year-old's interest in science fiction.'' —William Gibson, "Since 1948"
"Don't worry, I'm not going to nab your kid, I already got this one."
Is this common place? As of a father of twins; I regularly take my kids to the park and either I'm oblivious to these looks or I am too busy playing zone defense on two almost 3 year olds that I don't even notice.
As a work-from-home dad with a very flexible schedule, I spend quite a bit of time at the park during work hours. My experience is closer to yours than most others in this thread. I find the moms/nannies/grandparents quite welcoming and friendly. Occasionally a topic of conversation will come up that may be a bit awkward, but otherwise I don't feel that I'm treated much differently. I certainly have never perceived that anyone felt threatened by my presence.
I'm not sure what would account for the difference. I live just a few miles from FB headquarters and am in the same demographic as OP.
Stay-at-home dad fist-bump. Here in Ontario, parents have the right to split their parental leave. We did it the traditional way for the first two... for round three, we split it 60/40, and I got the big side.
I wouldn't trade this for the world. My kids are juggernauts of exhausting destruction, but I knew this was my only chance to get this kind of extended time with them and I wanted it.
One thing is that the only sentiment I agree with is the frustrating low expectations. I'm not superdad, I'm regularparent. The patronizing "you're such a great husband" thing constantly makes me cringe. I'm not even good at this - I shout at the kids more than I should, and when I get overwhelmed I just bury my head in my phone and read Facebook and HN and ignore whatever they're destroying.
But otherwise? Maybe it's Canada, maybe it's that I live in a university neighborhood, maybe I'm just that awesome, Idunno... The local moms have accepted me as one of their own while we bitch about homework. I don't get suspicious looks at the playground, and I'm as scruffy as the next geek (sweat pants are unacceptable though, have some pride, man).
But then again, maybe I'm just oblivious. I know my wife has gotten some... unfortunate questions and comments about going back to work with a 5-month-old baby, and that's not cool.
edit: I think I may have my wires crossed between whether I'm replying to the FB post or to one of the other commenters. Sweat pants was not in TFA.
Sweat pants was me. I'm also scruffier than most geeks. And on the autism spectrum, and therefore have more awkward mannerisms and social habits than most geeks. None of which are really exactly the point.
I've seen other dads who are considerably less awkward in the same situation in the grocery store or at the park. Maybe it's different where you live, but here there's an expectation that men who aren't at work during the day are highly likely to be predators, or druggies, or something else unsavory. It doesn't seem to cross peoples' minds that a guy my age at the store at 11 am on a Tuesday could be just a normal dude who takes care of his own kids most of the time. Unless we have a kid with us, in which case we're clearly super-dad.
I remember when I was a very young dad, and 15 minutes with my very young son was torture. I see myself in much of what he tells. Much of it by imagining the now dad of a 10yo as a dad of 4 months old son.
But there's one thing I can tell for sure. A father can not replace a mother. I wouldn't take offense if a woman asked me why isn't my wife taking care of the child. In the past 10 years there were countless cases where my wife handled things entirely differently then myself. Specially the emotionally relevant things, which are extremely important at early stages of child development.
There is no gender equality when it comes to what a child needs. A child needs the smile of a mother as much as they need the smile of a father. And one can not replace the other.
>There is no gender equality when it comes to what a child needs. A child needs the smile of a mother as much as they need the smile of a father. And one can not replace the other.
There is such a heavy statement that I cannot begin to explain how wrong it is. Are you saying that a single parent cannot raise a child on her (or his) own? In the absence of any scientific evidence in your support, I'd say you are absolutely and terribly wrong. How can you say "a father cannot replace a mother"? I don't mind you not taking offense. I don't mind your assertion that your wife is a better parent than you are. However, it remains at best anecdotal. Your leap of faith from one example to a broad generalization that irreparably harms not only women but single fathers and same-sex couples in one broad swath is very disturbing. I hope you realize that.
> There is no gender equality when it comes to what a child needs. A child needs the smile of a mother as much as they need the smile of a father. And one can not replace the other.
Isn't this essentially the argument against gay adoption and gay parenting in general? Because studies show their kids aren't adversely affected by this.
>>In the past 10 years there were countless cases where my wife handled things entirely differently then myself. Specially the emotionally relevant things, which are extremely important at early stages of child development.
This is more about your own inability to properly handle those situations requiring emotional involvement than a commentary on what fathers in general can or cannot provide. You are, after all, only one person.
I respect your experiences and commend you for sharing them, but at the end of the day you are basing your opinions on (your own) anecdote and passing judgment on all the other fathers out there. This is unfair and sexist and you should not do it.
It sounds to be like you are confusing your personal failings with the traits of all men. Considering your history, it's not a real surprise. But do not continue to make the mistake that just because it's true for you, it's must be true for everyone.
So far, I have to disagree. While my wife handles some situations better than me, there are also scenarios, where I can shine. My son is 1.5 years, maybe it will change in the coming years.
I believe, mothers usually get a bonding advantage through breast-feeding. That did not work out in our case, so bottle-feeding it was and that can be done by men as well.
>> "There is no gender equality when it comes to what a child needs. A child needs the smile of a mother as much as they need the smile of a father. And one can not replace the other."
I kind of get what you mean but I don't think you've expressed it properly. I think the real important thing is that having multiple parental figures is a good thing. In some families the mother can provide better emotional support and the father brings things to the relationship the mother doesn't. If the parents are homosexual they can still both bring different things to the parent/child relationship which complement each other. Children of single parents often have Aunts/Uncles that care for them and are as much a part of their life as a parent.
Basically having multiple parental figures who's natural roles complement each other is best.
NB: I'm not a parent so I could be completely wrong.
Do you have an example of how she handled it differently? (Other than the emotional sitations.) I'm always curious of how others solve situations in a different (ie better) way than I could.
His experience mirrors closely with my friend, who is a stay-at-home dad. All the crap this guy puts up with strangers is pretty prevalent - my friend's experienced the same, and worse, as he's been doing it longer.
Women are graduating in higher numbers and getting better positions. My wife has a permanent secure job so I made the practical decision to be home dad 5 years ago. It is a huge readjustment for anyone not used to looking after kids regardless of their chromosomes. Junior primary and preschool teachers (universally women) and women at playgroup are very accepting. My kids probably miss out a bit on the social activities mums seem to plan with each other but they get to kick a football with dad and dig holes in the back yard. I take my youngest to the park to play in the playground nearly every day. Perhaps I am just thick-skinned but I don't notice being treated any differently and I see plenty of other dad spending time with their kids.
The only time I felt I got the predator treatment was when we lost our escape artist kid in a big store and I found him at about the same time as one of the staff members and she snatched him from me and handed him over to his mum. I think that was just good training rather than a reaction to my beardiness. His mum had reported him missing while I went and found him so the staff member had no idea who I was.
My twin boys are now 10 month and me and my wife decided that staying home both of us for a year to give them a good start was a good idea. It was, and i can really recommend people doing the same even if it means having to make tough decisions like changing jobs and not buying that new car
I've been doing the primary parent thing for about 16 months now. My story is probably a bit different in that I've started it much later in my children's lives than all the any other articles I read.
Basically I worked full time and my wife worked part time for the first 12 years. She had been wanting to go back to work full time, and we had done a test run when she covered someone on maternity leave for six months, but both of us full time just wasn't working and everyone was miserable by the end of it.
Then in 2011 an opportunity came up for me to work part time, mostly from home, and we decided to swap and give things a go. So I didn't start with infants, but with a 12 and 10 year old. It's been interesting so far.
Odd that stay-at-home women label themselves as "not working". I often try to convince my wife and others to proudly answer "mother" when asked for their work. It might not get payed, but it surely is a lot of work.
My wife struggles with feeling like she's "not working" because she's a homemaker. I point out that if she was working at a job outside of the home, we'd have to pay someone else to do what she does, and we'd pay awfully handsomely for it. That seems to help her put it in perspective.
Well, that label is using the word working to mean employed. Same when people say they are "out of work." That doesn't mean they aren't doing work. I don't find it derogatory nor incorrect.
My first day of school (early 70's) the teacher asked something along the lines of "What do your parents do?". When I got home that afternoon my mom (a stay-at-home mom) asked about my first day of school, and I told her about that question. Of course she wanted to know what my answer was. For the 40 years since, I've suffered frequently for saying that she didn't work. ;)
I envy you Tom. As a working-(too-much)-father, I work more than I see my kids and I feel like I'm losing something big.
As others I radically reshapes my carrer when my first daughter was born leaving unsafe research field for the safer and higher paid industry. While I'm pretty OK where I work now, I miss so much the freedom in terms of working hours and time tables. I'd like to find a job where I could spend more time with my kids, even at the price of a lower wage.
Best and good luck for you coming back to work (BTW, the next months will be WAY more physically exhausting).
Honestly, I got no clue what you all are talking about. Never had problems or felt weird looks in the play ground, never got compliments for changing nappies or anything like that. I think most people are used to dads taking care of kids these days, and I am not even living in some inner city sophisticated place.
The author was astute enough to see his difficulties as a microcosm of what minorities regularly experience. That seems to have been lost in the HN commentary.
[+] [-] enraged_camel|12 years ago|reply
Why is it that we as a society are so fucking fearful? We have an irrational fear of communists, socialists, terrorists, serial killers, sex offenders, and of course, child molesters and abductors. Everyone thinks that there is someone out there who is out to hurt them and their family. Like, that is the default assumption, and people's subsequent behaviors (such as pulling their kid closer) is based on it.
A non-parent man sitting at a playground bench and reading his paper is very, very likely to get the cops called on him, even though he's on public property. Is this right?
[+] [-] cheald|12 years ago|reply
As to the culture of fear, I blame local news. It's wall-to-wall with alternating RAPISTS EVERYWHERE and LOOKIT THE CUTE PUPPIES, because those are the only stories that can compete with other news media. Telling people that they should be terrified (your neighbor is probably a child molester! Full story at 10!) is an extremely powerful tool, and people eat it up.
As a parent, I can understand those moms' reactions, even if I don't condone them. My kids are the most precious thing in the world to me, and I would rather err on the side of caution than ever let something truly traumatic happen to them. But, I think there's a line between being vigilant and being paralyzed in fear because someone with a penis is within 200 yards of your kid.
[+] [-] dquail|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pbreit|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sliverstorm|12 years ago|reply
If you ask me? Because we are hard-wired for fear. Ten thousand years ago, it kept you alive. Today, there is not much left to fear- but we are built to fear, so we find something to fear.
[+] [-] coldtea|12 years ago|reply
1) Because due to egotism, greed and lack of communal values, we have fucked up normal operation of society, and they are indeed are more prevalent than they were.
2) Because of watching them all the time in "entertainment", thus creating the impression that they are even more than the already too many that they are.
3) Because it's a good racket in order to sell "protection", a trillion dollar business, from politicians passing all the more extreme laws, to surveillance, to arms business, etc.
4) Because people themselves have stiffened up and treat other people like enemies even in casual urban situations, and treat their kids like they're prisoners for their own "safety".
[+] [-] saraid216|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gexla|12 years ago|reply
I think it's all in his head though. He is probably projecting his fears of what people think about him. And why would you care what parents at a playground think of you anyways?
[+] [-] toyg|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lotharbot|12 years ago|reply
I became a stay-at-home dad when my son was born 3.5 years ago, by choice, because parenting is what I want to do with my life. My wife wanted a technical career, and went back to work as soon as she was able. More recently, my sister (a single mom) and her little boy moved in with us. My sister works at the school down the street, and has a lot of other out-of-the-home commitments. Both my son and my nephew were in school for half of the day this last year, which meant I watched both of them every afternoon and many evenings, and was on call whenever there was a problem at school (both are special needs kids.)
Some of the challenges I've seen:
- I dress like a stay-at-home dad, complete with scraggly beard and sweatpants (no sense in getting peanut butter, pee, and play-doh on nice clothes!) When I'm out at the store without the kids, people look at me like I'm a predator. When I take a kid or two with me, they look at me like I'm a saint, much moreso than the moms who have kids with them. [EDIT: when I lived in small-town Utah for a while, taking a kid to the store got mixed reactions, with some thinking I was a saint and others thinking there was something wrong with me. In other areas, the reaction was almost uniformly "saint".]
- My grandfather grew up in an era of man works - woman does childcare. He's constantly asking me when I'm getting a job, and doesn't understand when I say "this is my job".
- I actually will be working outside the home, in a school, during the coming school year. A number of people have expressed sentiments along the lines of "good for you, glad you're finally doing something with your life", as if my son raised himself and I had nothing to do with it.
- I'm constantly hearing about support groups for parents, and they almost always have "mom" somewhere in the name. Some of them will say that dads are welcome too, but it's still awkward. The only real support group I have was accidental - a bunch of people from church were all getting together, and then everyone quit except for me and a few moms and our preschoolers.
[+] [-] el_fuser|12 years ago|reply
My most irksome comments were "So... Giving mom the day off?" whenever someone would see me with my kids.
The most egregious thing to happen, was being kicked off of the local meetup for playdates... I assume I was approved to join the group because my first name is gender neutral.
Sometime between posting my profile pic (which included my kids) and attending my first meetup, I was removed from the group.
[+] [-] tokenadult|12 years ago|reply
I haven't heard a lot of the kinds of nasty comments that the author of this interesting submitted article appears to have heard all too often. For me, since we had children, it has been important to spend a lot of time with my children while they grow up. They are only young once each. Way back in the early 1970s, I thought, evidently overoptimistically, that women's liberation would be a force to make it possible for dads to spend more time with their children if the dads so chose. Maybe that doesn't happen as a matter of social reality everywhere, but that is the choice I made, and I'm not looking back. All of my children, the three boys and the one girl, are already thinking ahead about what kind of lifestyle trade-offs they will work out with their spouses when, as they hope, they have children of their own.
One cannot emphasize the author's point too much that taking care of young children is a lot of work that demands constant vigilance. Authors from the women's liberation perspective used to argue that that is one of the best reasons to hire former homemakers as they return to the outside-the-home paid labor force--it takes strong personal organization skills to take care of young children. I don't know if that's what big company employers really think, but it sure makes sense to me.
To be clear for onlookers new to my posts here, we are a homeschooling family, so the high parental involvement with children (again, not "stay at home" but "out and about with the children") has continued in our family even though our youngest child is above typical school-going age. We like this lifestyle, because we like what it appears to be doing for our children. There are trade-offs involved in any lifestyle choice that relates both to family and to work responsibilities, but there is plenty of time for working in anyone's day, and a lot of good memories that can be built up from quality family time.
[+] [-] joebeetee|12 years ago|reply
I recently interviewed at a large company and did very well on all the questions, connected with the interviewers, had long chats with the recruiter, etc - but didn't get the job. I suspect one of the reasons I didn't get the job was the fact that I mentioned my wife/kid. The team that I interviewed for were all fairly young (so am I) but I think the kid thing could've thrown them off.
This may just be an issue at and job level that I am applying at and I'm very prepared for the fact that it may have been because I didn't do as well as I thought, but I have no idea what else it could've been. Would be great to know if anyone else has ever felt this.
[+] [-] Tichy|12 years ago|reply
I wanted to throw some other thought to HN: I've come to the conclusion that we won't see a big surge in "stay-at-home-daddying". I have nothing against it, but ultimately I think the rationale would be "why would I pay my babysitter half of my salary" (which is what a stay at home dad is getting)? It seems to me a mother still has a bigger claim to her children because she invested much more physically, so society will deem it more acceptable if she does the stay-at-home thing, getting paid more than a mere babysitter.
Or will it become feasible in the future to speculate on becoming a stay-at-home dad? For example (extreme to make a point) instead of taking on another career, take classes in cooking and home decoration in the expectation to one day take care of a home? It seems very unlikely to me, although of course there will be (and already are) lots of women who have and want interesting careers. But would they go forth and marry a guy with no skills but home honing? Please spare me the sexism comments, I want to think rationally about this. (I personally don't care who stays at home). The point is that it is very viable to speculate on becoming a stay at home mother imo.
[+] [-] mtrimpe|12 years ago|reply
Once they did that and the family was actually leaving paid leave on the table otherwise, fathers are now nearing 40% of birth leave.
[+] [-] callmeed|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Pxtl|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joebeetee|12 years ago|reply
Interesting how the author felt that people could say things to him that they wouldn't say to women in a similar situation.
[+] [-] networked|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sampo|12 years ago|reply
''In 1977, facing first-time parenthood and an absolute lack of enthusiasm for anything like "career," I found myself dusting off my twelve-year-old's interest in science fiction.'' —William Gibson, "Since 1948"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Gibson
[+] [-] rudog|12 years ago|reply
Is this common place? As of a father of twins; I regularly take my kids to the park and either I'm oblivious to these looks or I am too busy playing zone defense on two almost 3 year olds that I don't even notice.
[+] [-] stevewilber|12 years ago|reply
I'm not sure what would account for the difference. I live just a few miles from FB headquarters and am in the same demographic as OP.
[+] [-] Pxtl|12 years ago|reply
I wouldn't trade this for the world. My kids are juggernauts of exhausting destruction, but I knew this was my only chance to get this kind of extended time with them and I wanted it.
One thing is that the only sentiment I agree with is the frustrating low expectations. I'm not superdad, I'm regularparent. The patronizing "you're such a great husband" thing constantly makes me cringe. I'm not even good at this - I shout at the kids more than I should, and when I get overwhelmed I just bury my head in my phone and read Facebook and HN and ignore whatever they're destroying.
But otherwise? Maybe it's Canada, maybe it's that I live in a university neighborhood, maybe I'm just that awesome, Idunno... The local moms have accepted me as one of their own while we bitch about homework. I don't get suspicious looks at the playground, and I'm as scruffy as the next geek (sweat pants are unacceptable though, have some pride, man).
But then again, maybe I'm just oblivious. I know my wife has gotten some... unfortunate questions and comments about going back to work with a 5-month-old baby, and that's not cool.
edit: I think I may have my wires crossed between whether I'm replying to the FB post or to one of the other commenters. Sweat pants was not in TFA.
[+] [-] lotharbot|12 years ago|reply
I've seen other dads who are considerably less awkward in the same situation in the grocery store or at the park. Maybe it's different where you live, but here there's an expectation that men who aren't at work during the day are highly likely to be predators, or druggies, or something else unsavory. It doesn't seem to cross peoples' minds that a guy my age at the store at 11 am on a Tuesday could be just a normal dude who takes care of his own kids most of the time. Unless we have a kid with us, in which case we're clearly super-dad.
[+] [-] cristianpascu|12 years ago|reply
But there's one thing I can tell for sure. A father can not replace a mother. I wouldn't take offense if a woman asked me why isn't my wife taking care of the child. In the past 10 years there were countless cases where my wife handled things entirely differently then myself. Specially the emotionally relevant things, which are extremely important at early stages of child development.
There is no gender equality when it comes to what a child needs. A child needs the smile of a mother as much as they need the smile of a father. And one can not replace the other.
[+] [-] 3825|12 years ago|reply
There is such a heavy statement that I cannot begin to explain how wrong it is. Are you saying that a single parent cannot raise a child on her (or his) own? In the absence of any scientific evidence in your support, I'd say you are absolutely and terribly wrong. How can you say "a father cannot replace a mother"? I don't mind you not taking offense. I don't mind your assertion that your wife is a better parent than you are. However, it remains at best anecdotal. Your leap of faith from one example to a broad generalization that irreparably harms not only women but single fathers and same-sex couples in one broad swath is very disturbing. I hope you realize that.
[+] [-] spamizbad|12 years ago|reply
Isn't this essentially the argument against gay adoption and gay parenting in general? Because studies show their kids aren't adversely affected by this.
Source: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tick-for-samesex-families-...
[+] [-] jellicle|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] enraged_camel|12 years ago|reply
This is more about your own inability to properly handle those situations requiring emotional involvement than a commentary on what fathers in general can or cannot provide. You are, after all, only one person.
I respect your experiences and commend you for sharing them, but at the end of the day you are basing your opinions on (your own) anecdote and passing judgment on all the other fathers out there. This is unfair and sexist and you should not do it.
[+] [-] jasonlotito|12 years ago|reply
That's a fairly ignorant mistake to make.
[+] [-] qznc|12 years ago|reply
I believe, mothers usually get a bonding advantage through breast-feeding. That did not work out in our case, so bottle-feeding it was and that can be done by men as well.
[+] [-] k-mcgrady|12 years ago|reply
I kind of get what you mean but I don't think you've expressed it properly. I think the real important thing is that having multiple parental figures is a good thing. In some families the mother can provide better emotional support and the father brings things to the relationship the mother doesn't. If the parents are homosexual they can still both bring different things to the parent/child relationship which complement each other. Children of single parents often have Aunts/Uncles that care for them and are as much a part of their life as a parent.
Basically having multiple parental figures who's natural roles complement each other is best.
NB: I'm not a parent so I could be completely wrong.
[+] [-] Numberwang|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] da02|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WalterSear|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Dewie|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spamizbad|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shirro|12 years ago|reply
The only time I felt I got the predator treatment was when we lost our escape artist kid in a big store and I found him at about the same time as one of the staff members and she snatched him from me and handed him over to his mum. I think that was just good training rather than a reaction to my beardiness. His mum had reported him missing while I went and found him so the staff member had no idea who I was.
[+] [-] fredrikcarno|12 years ago|reply
Have a great day
Best Fredrik
[+] [-] anotherevan|12 years ago|reply
Basically I worked full time and my wife worked part time for the first 12 years. She had been wanting to go back to work full time, and we had done a test run when she covered someone on maternity leave for six months, but both of us full time just wasn't working and everyone was miserable by the end of it.
Then in 2011 an opportunity came up for me to work part time, mostly from home, and we decided to swap and give things a go. So I didn't start with infants, but with a 12 and 10 year old. It's been interesting so far.
[+] [-] qznc|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] autodidakto|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cheald|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jasonlotito|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yaddayadda|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tigroferoce|12 years ago|reply
As others I radically reshapes my carrer when my first daughter was born leaving unsafe research field for the safer and higher paid industry. While I'm pretty OK where I work now, I miss so much the freedom in terms of working hours and time tables. I'd like to find a job where I could spend more time with my kids, even at the price of a lower wage.
Best and good luck for you coming back to work (BTW, the next months will be WAY more physically exhausting).
[+] [-] golemmiprague|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] crasshopper|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] furyofantares|12 years ago|reply