I'm always surprised that more billionaires don't try interesting off the wall projects when they have so much money. What's the fun of having it, if you can't have the occasional mad scientist moment.
Every startup entrepreneur should learn image making and PR from Musk.
For someone who is not very eloquent and a bit tongue-tied he has done an amazing job to become known as the premier visionaries of our time.
This also includes making changes to his physical appearance by looking at his old images [1], [2] as well his name brand.
Wow, those "old" seem as if they were taken 10-15 years in the future.
I wonder if in fact, as you're suggesting, his changes in appearance were intended as a means of improving his public figure, rather than his health and subjective appearance.
I hate most patents as well, but given that we've recently switched to a "first to file" system here in the US, if this has patentable components (which it seems like it would) it would probably be prudent for him to file patents on it (at least within the one year grace period after disclosing the system in public), even if just to turn around and do some sort of public promise not to enforce.
Of course, I'm sure he's well aware of these issues.
It is classy and awesome, but don't forget that he can afford to be classy and awesome. (Everyone knows he's the inventor, and he's got the people and capital to make it happen before anyone else... not that that is necessarily his goal.)
Rather than maintain a vacuum hundreds of miles wide, why not just ride along the vacuum that occurs along a very low frequency soundwave (low frequency enough that the wavelength is larger than the vehicle).
Since this wave would be going the speed of sound, that could be what he meant by comparing it to a Concord.
And since a pressure wave isn't exactly like wind (it would just pass through the vehicle), there would need to be some kind of propulsion that could get the thing going fast and occasionally maintain speed (e.g. the railgun and PV solar part of his idea).
I can see many ways to work in the air-hockey portion from his hints which would avoid the cost of mag-lev.. but who knows exactly what approach he will take there...
That's really interesting. I wonder if the vehicle could effectively "surf" the back wave for propulsion -- higher pressure behind, lower pressure in front pushes the vehicle forward enough to overcome whatever low friction is involved. With an external system both for getting up to speed and in case it "falls off the wave."
The air-hockey element is most likely implemented as a cushion of air around all sides of a vehicle inside a tube - this would explain the "crash-proof" assertion. It would provide near-frictionless travel as well as preventing vehicle-tube collisions.
If you really want a fast transport system you need not only speed, but low latency. If you need to queue for 15 minutes while you wait for other people to get in, then it's gonna feel like boarding a plane : time wasted.
What's really needed here is parallel loading of passengers into individual pods. But then you need a tube switch and multiple tubes and doors and throughways.
If this is, as it sounds, a new public transport system, it surprises me a little that he would prefer to develop it in the US.
Attitudes towards public transport in general seem more favourable in the EU, Japan, China and South Korea.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I imagine getting such a system built in the EU (for example) would be easier than the US. Then again, Musk has been building a reputation with law-makers in the US for some time, so that might count for a lot.
I would think a big motivation is that he personally wants to be able to go from LA to SF in 30mins. He probably spends a lot of his time flying around the US
I think US's opinions about public transportation is based on rational comparison. Taking the bus takes more time than taking a car, and is a less desirable environment. Our train system is optimized for freight, and has no cost or time benefit over just driving.
Countries which have high amounts of public transportation tend to have higher gas prices and population density. It becomes more cost and time effective in that case to take public transportation.
If this hyper-tube system takes off, it could really be a game changer. Even with a high cost, the transportation speed is really desirable, especially if you don't need to go through the routine that you need to go through at airports before you even get on the plane. If the cost becomes comparable or cheaper than airplanes, then it becomes cheaper and more convenient to take the hyper tube than driving or flying. Americans understand the language of time and money, and that would change their opinion very quickly.
When I read PG's essay earlier today, I thought of hyperloop when I read this footnote:
"There may even be an inverse correlation between launch magnitude and success. The only launches I remember are famous flops like the Segway and Google Wave. Wave is a particularly alarming example, because I think it was actually a great idea that was killed partly by its overdone launch."
I can actually recall the launch of some things that succeeded (ipad & iphone, for example). Still, this reminds me in some way of Wave. When wave was launching there was a lot of hyperbolic explanations by people who didn't seem to understand what they were describing. realtime collaboration-communication hybrid that's really more of a cloud based protocol than a app. The app itself is just a proof of concept People either didn't get it or made unlikely assumptions about what it was.
Something about all this excitement pre-reveal feels wrong to me. Especially since this sounds like such a big, long term project.
There was that recent PR article that made the rounds here last week from some company allegedly developing an evacuated tube based system that was written in a way to imply they were working on Musk's idea. I would not at all be surprised if he's a little miffed about that and has decided to just get everything out there.
Given that they may not actually be working on what he specifically has in mind, there is a risk that his idea gets a bad connotation if someone implements something similar (but not identical) and does it poorly. There is a whole political dimension to this in terms of getting zoning, approvals, etc... and the last thing he needs is for it to be stillborn because a bunch of politicians hear it "was tried and failed".
It'll work like the water system... efficiency from using gigantic pumps, safety from having so much distributed force that a problem in any point can't bleed off enough power to endanger the system.
It'll be a closed loop where the pumps take air from holes in the top of one end and push it through holes in the bottom of the other end. The holes will be spaced so that the upward-pushing force decreases over the loop as the upward-pulling force increases. This creates a slow acceleration at the beginning of the loop and a slow deceleration at the end of the loop. Some mechanical system will move cars from the end of the loop to the beginning (since there is no air force there). The speed at any given point is determined by how many of the up/down holes are behind/before the car, so speed in the center is incredibly fast.
The idea is pretty simple, it's just a matter of getting enough funding for the execution since the entire system must be constructed before any returns. Patents are a non-issue since you need government involvement to do it (even Musk isn't going to get a $6 billion loan on an unproved idea with unknown liability, need to get land rights, etc).
Things like this are what happen when you get someone who knows how to make things happen, but also has the intelligence training and experience of a senior engineer.
A launch loop doesn't make sense, it's too risky (from a business sense) for this sort of project and too expensive too.
Also, the obvious use of a launch loop is for launch, of course. Why serve a market where prices are cents per kilogram when you can serve a market where prices are hundreds of dollars per kilo? And with less capital investment too.
Musk is the modern day inventor/businessman of old.
This project has to be the most impactful thing on my life he has proposed and I welcome it with open arms. Paypal was smart, Tesla is cool, Space X is plain bad a^^, but this could change everything. Coast to coast in hours, half hour from NY to DC. And it could make it much cheaper than air travel due to less energy usage overall.
An electric hovercraft design without tires and without a fan, but driven by one large/many small linear or stepper motors that build-up and fire Electromagnetic pulses or compressed Air to build thrust.
When he said hyperloop I pictured a normal road with large Metal loops (induction) every mile with smart-meters tracking how much energy you consumed and charging your bank for that amount. Do you remember the games where you have to drive over the yellow arrows to speed up? The same principle.
..still inefficient, even though it's pretty creative and more efficient than all current implementation of car and infrastructure design.
before you ask, yes I know a much more efficient way, but it's useless to explain here, because nobody will listen anyway.
I love that you just made up all the details to his idea, and then discredited it... and then said you know a better way, but assumed no one would listen.
[+] [-] drpgq|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] salimmadjd|12 years ago|reply
This also includes making changes to his physical appearance by looking at his old images [1], [2] as well his name brand.
[1] http://www.stepbrother.co.za/images/musk2.jpg
[2] http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18p2ht1rsfinyjpg/ku-xlarge.j...
edit: line breaks added
[+] [-] aroman|12 years ago|reply
I wonder if in fact, as you're suggesting, his changes in appearance were intended as a means of improving his public figure, rather than his health and subjective appearance.
[+] [-] tocomment|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] silenteh|12 years ago|reply
This is another example of what pg meant with his last essay.
[+] [-] jmacd|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] non-sense|12 years ago|reply
"I really hate patents unless critical to company survival. Will publish Hyperloop as open source."
[+] [-] onebaddude|12 years ago|reply
Isn't "critical to company survival" the same defensive argument that every patent holder uses?
[+] [-] georgemcbay|12 years ago|reply
Of course, I'm sure he's well aware of these issues.
[+] [-] alexvr|12 years ago|reply
Can't wait to see it.
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] cma|12 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6040206
Rather than maintain a vacuum hundreds of miles wide, why not just ride along the vacuum that occurs along a very low frequency soundwave (low frequency enough that the wavelength is larger than the vehicle).
To visualize: http://profmattstrassler.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/wavegas...
Since this wave would be going the speed of sound, that could be what he meant by comparing it to a Concord.
And since a pressure wave isn't exactly like wind (it would just pass through the vehicle), there would need to be some kind of propulsion that could get the thing going fast and occasionally maintain speed (e.g. the railgun and PV solar part of his idea).
I can see many ways to work in the air-hockey portion from his hints which would avoid the cost of mag-lev.. but who knows exactly what approach he will take there...
[+] [-] curveship|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] steffan|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tocomment|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zefhous|12 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/John_Gardi/status/356798172842049536
[+] [-] michaelbuckbee|12 years ago|reply
http://twitpic.com/cw4pqb/full
[+] [-] otibom|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tocomment|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] schiffern|12 years ago|reply
It looks a lot like a schematic Lofstrom (launch) loop. Just replace the rotor with air.
[+] [-] dm2|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nicktelford|12 years ago|reply
Attitudes towards public transport in general seem more favourable in the EU, Japan, China and South Korea.
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I imagine getting such a system built in the EU (for example) would be easier than the US. Then again, Musk has been building a reputation with law-makers in the US for some time, so that might count for a lot.
[+] [-] shawabawa3|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Laremere|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ceejayoz|12 years ago|reply
As a result, they aren't in as desperate need of public transport as the US.
[+] [-] robinwarren|12 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop
[+] [-] apendleton|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swamp40|12 years ago|reply
That's why this announcement is big news.
[+] [-] netcan|12 years ago|reply
"There may even be an inverse correlation between launch magnitude and success. The only launches I remember are famous flops like the Segway and Google Wave. Wave is a particularly alarming example, because I think it was actually a great idea that was killed partly by its overdone launch."
I can actually recall the launch of some things that succeeded (ipad & iphone, for example). Still, this reminds me in some way of Wave. When wave was launching there was a lot of hyperbolic explanations by people who didn't seem to understand what they were describing. realtime collaboration-communication hybrid that's really more of a cloud based protocol than a app. The app itself is just a proof of concept People either didn't get it or made unlikely assumptions about what it was.
Something about all this excitement pre-reveal feels wrong to me. Especially since this sounds like such a big, long term project.
[+] [-] mjs|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swamp40|12 years ago|reply
a) He's getting asked a lot.
b) By publicly announcing a deadline, everyone involved (including him) will be racing to hit that deadline or lose face.
c) He's telling the world "I say what I do and I do what I say".
[+] [-] JunkDNA|12 years ago|reply
Given that they may not actually be working on what he specifically has in mind, there is a risk that his idea gets a bad connotation if someone implements something similar (but not identical) and does it poorly. There is a whole political dimension to this in terms of getting zoning, approvals, etc... and the last thing he needs is for it to be stillborn because a bunch of politicians hear it "was tried and failed".
[+] [-] rdouble|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bemol|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] hnhater|12 years ago|reply
It'll be a closed loop where the pumps take air from holes in the top of one end and push it through holes in the bottom of the other end. The holes will be spaced so that the upward-pushing force decreases over the loop as the upward-pulling force increases. This creates a slow acceleration at the beginning of the loop and a slow deceleration at the end of the loop. Some mechanical system will move cars from the end of the loop to the beginning (since there is no air force there). The speed at any given point is determined by how many of the up/down holes are behind/before the car, so speed in the center is incredibly fast.
The idea is pretty simple, it's just a matter of getting enough funding for the execution since the entire system must be constructed before any returns. Patents are a non-issue since you need government involvement to do it (even Musk isn't going to get a $6 billion loan on an unproved idea with unknown liability, need to get land rights, etc).
[+] [-] swalsh|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tocomment|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] InclinedPlane|12 years ago|reply
Also, the obvious use of a launch loop is for launch, of course. Why serve a market where prices are cents per kilogram when you can serve a market where prices are hundreds of dollars per kilo? And with less capital investment too.
[+] [-] schiffern|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ianstallings|12 years ago|reply
This project has to be the most impactful thing on my life he has proposed and I welcome it with open arms. Paypal was smart, Tesla is cool, Space X is plain bad a^^, but this could change everything. Coast to coast in hours, half hour from NY to DC. And it could make it much cheaper than air travel due to less energy usage overall.
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dasloop|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drgath|12 years ago|reply
http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/transportation-nation/2013/mar/28/...
[+] [-] jlgreco|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] omni|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] schiffern|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hankcharles|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] X4|12 years ago|reply
An electric hovercraft design without tires and without a fan, but driven by one large/many small linear or stepper motors that build-up and fire Electromagnetic pulses or compressed Air to build thrust.
When he said hyperloop I pictured a normal road with large Metal loops (induction) every mile with smart-meters tracking how much energy you consumed and charging your bank for that amount. Do you remember the games where you have to drive over the yellow arrows to speed up? The same principle.
..still inefficient, even though it's pretty creative and more efficient than all current implementation of car and infrastructure design.
before you ask, yes I know a much more efficient way, but it's useless to explain here, because nobody will listen anyway.
[+] [-] swalsh|12 years ago|reply