1. Awesome invention, straws that detect adulterants and change colour
2. Obviously people do get drugged occasionally, the inventor seems to have had it happen to him
3. Unfortunately there seems to be no real evidence that GHB or ketamine are often used in sexual assaults, and even Rohypnol which has the worst reputation has not often been detected. A straw that could detect a drink that's stronger than you think it is might be more useful, AFAICT the number one date-rape drug is alcohol.
(I want to be absolutely clear here, I'm not saying date rape doesn't happen, I'm not saying that some really nasty people don't deliberately get others into pliable states to take advantage of them, but AFAICT the use of drugs in the way the media likes to run scare stories about is very uncommon)
Regarding #3, what data are you going off to say that Rohypnol has not been detected, and that drugging overall is uncommon? I have experienced it twice in the past 18 months through friends whom I have drank with many times, and had a very obvious reaction to one drink which often had been bought for them or left on a table/bar at some point that evening. Unless someone poured them a drink comprised of 6+ shots worth of liquor, there is no way they would have gone through the change they went through in that one drink. Also, if it had been that much alcohol, it would have been noticed in taste.
Uncommon is pretty broad, if something as severe as being drugged happens to one person out of every 200 each night, it is "common" in my mind.
None of these "date rape drugs" even come close to comparing to alcohol.
It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose.
Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./
Once you start using scary drugs that no one has ever heard of, then wow, that's something we can condemn. Especially since no one we know would ever do such a thing.
Not so common in North America anymore, but very common in S. America and Europe. Brazil expect every drink you have to be spiked with scopolamine especially if you're a rich looking tourist and a girl who makes $50/week wants to clear out your hotel. I would expect the same in the Czech Republic too, but since bartenders are in cahoots with the thieves there you'd need to bring your own straws.
I also don't think this guy's idea will work very well, and instead will create a false sense of security instead of just watching your drink, which is probably the reason cases of Rohypnol/GHB have declined in N. America since there's so much education about guarding your drink or tossing it if you leave it alone. Bouncers also provide benefit denial of this crime/scam, and will usually stop somebody walking out dragging a girl until they find her friends, at least here they do.
Another problem is I see criminals just bringing in their own straws and switching them while dumping in the drug. Bars are unlikely to order these glasses unless they are inexpensive, they go through so many broken glasses it's not worth it to them to swtich. Their bleach + high heat cleaning methods might render the protection useless too after a few washings.
Create a spiral straw from two trips, like a candy cane. One strip turns one color in the presence of Alcohol and turns darker the more it detects - and the other strip turns a different color in the presence of anything else that you want to detect for.
Clubs and bars tend to be dark and the patrons inebriated. I have to imagine that those factors would go an awful long way toward nullifying any benefit of this stuff.
Also, if the technology involved is anything like the color-changing "field test" kits that cops use, false positives will be a problem.
An associate of mine was booked for "heroin possession" when an overzealous cop decided to test his aspirin during a traffic stop - he was released the instant he got a hold of a lawyer.
This is a great invention that can help prevent abuse, but I'm worried bars won't buy in for a few reasons:
1) I assume the cups have to be disposable, as the strips probably don't work multiple times. Most bars I've been to don't use disposable cups.
2) Even if they did, it has to be cost effective for the bar to consider using them. If 1000 cups is $250 (0.25/cup) and you can get 10,000 normal cups for that price, that's going to probably factor into their decision.
3) The bar might be worried that having these cups might reflect poorly on their reputation. I can imagine people saying to themselves "Why is the bar using special glasses that detect date rape? Is date rape a problem at this bar?" When you introduce an item like this it might lead to speculation that there is a problem when really you're trying to be safe. It's like if you installed a metal detector at a club and put bars on the windows -- you might be doing it just to be safe, but your patrons might think "do things happen here that warrant security precautions like this"?
On number 3, people might think the opposite too.
"We can go here and not have to worry!"
I wonder how that would factor into how much someone drinks "Since there are no drugs to worry about, the people must be trustworthy enough to get blackout drunk around!"
It seems to me that, rather than making straws and drinks that do this, it would be better to see if it could be incorporated into some kind of nail polish that, once dried, could detect this.
I suggest nail polish for two reasons. One is that it removes the need to carry specialized tools: once you've done your nails, you can test 10 drinks and leave the bottle at home. Not having to carry a tool is somewhat more convenient, but it also means the tool can't be forgotten, lost, stolen, or tampered with.
The other advantage is discretion. It's not difficult, with a setup like this, to test a drink without others knowing what you are doing. It could be argued that people shouldn't mind being tested, but from a pragmatic standpoint, the kind of person who spikes a drink is the kind of person who could very easily become dangerous if they know they're being put to the test. A discreet test, therefore, is a safer test, and since these tests are supposed to be all about safety, it follows that a discreet test is also a better test.
> "Boston Man Invents Straws And Cups That Detect Date Rape Drugs"
Invents? I thought this has been around for quite awhile now? I remember hearing about things like this years ago. Maybe it was just the idea, and had not yet been actually a physical product though?
These drugs are without consistent ingredients and are always changing. He will need to stay ontop of drug trends and the constant iteration will side track the project. His biggest challenge will be scoring the actual drug to test the sensors... The chances that he will be able to produce these cups for an amount equal to the current cost of a regular plastic cup is doubtful. Etch-it cups can't even come close to the price of a regular plastic cup so how can these sensor cups be priced to attract bulk orders from bars and clubs?
My guess is that he is banking that the patent has value to cup manufacturers but the cup manufacturers probably don't want to hire a slew of scientist for R&D. They just want to make and sell cups.
Now I know I may be stupid engineer but isn't much simpler solution to have someone trusted who to call from time to time. With everybody having smartphones an gps app that for given period of time sends messages to trusted 3rd party about your location and being able to call if something is out of order is also a solution.
Just before going upstairs she just calls to the "warden" and if she is speaking coherent ... do whatever you like. If not - the trusted party can take a cab or signal the police.
"Now I know I may be stupid engineer but isn't much simpler solution"
I'm with you on this. Nothing stupider than slapping a technical solution on a social problem and calling it good.
Hmm, going out to drink unknown substances out of other peoples cups and letting other people mix potions for you and drinking out of cups people leave laying around unsupervised for others to mess with, is unsafe now, so "open mouth and out comes ridiculous cross between rube goldberg, life magazine predictions from 75 years ago about the future, and star trek technobabble". No, its just an obsolete, dangerous, dumb way to spend your time. You wanna do something stupid, fine, have fun, but don't come crying to me about how us smart people "have" to do something about your dumb decisions.
Kinda like free love was cool before HIV. Or going drunk driving was a great idea when you drove your own horse, but really dumb idea after cars. Sorry to break it to all the whiners but like it or not we live in the 2010s so deal with it or suffer. Going out drinking means pretty scary odds of date rape. So unless you're dense as neutronium, don't do it.
Before the chorus of how dare I blame the victim, well I have the right to blame them because I'm not an idiot. Going out drinking might have been fun in ye olden daze but its not ye olden daze anymore, its dumb and dangerous and THAT is why I have the right to blame the victim. I didn't get this brilliant knowledge from a reveled religion or a secret sauce, but from incessant whining of journalist reports, any other moron out there should be able to figure out the same thing I figured out, which is not to go out drinking anymore. Too bad for the victim if they're too dumb or lazy to think like the human being they are. Actions do have consequences.
I do have genuine pity for like "the first" date rape victims, how could she have possibly known and she'd not to blame. But we've had a lot of journalism since then. Not for some idiot who went out last night with a virtual bullseye painted on their fun parts, knowing fully whats probably about to happen, knowing that when the inevitable happens, they can just blame "society" or maybe blame the "techies for not inventing a cure"... anyone to blame but themselves.
There are perfectly good social solutions to this social problem. BYOB. Carry a fashionable hip flask. Strange as it may sound, you can socialize with friends without consuming liquids of any sort (insane concept, huh?). Take up an intoxicant that's safer than alcohol and harder (impossible?) to spike, like weed. "Back when I was a kid" we got totally drunk BEFORE we went out, who wants to repeatedly pay $7 a glass for something I can get drunk on at home for 75 cents/can, especially when you're a poor student. Only get drunk with actual friends at home instead of criminal strangers at a bar who want to take advantage of you. We're all smart here, its not very hard to figure out. These "revolutionary" ideas might negatively impact someones entrenched profitable business model? Tough cookies. Cry me a river.
But don't spew random tech all over an outmoded idiotic behavior and call it brilliant. Its just obsolete thrashing about. Wanna suffer? Fine go out and do it. I'm not going to feel any pity when the inevitable happens.
Don't worry, people are still going to find the numerous other ways to act stupid and hurt themselves.
Instead of every cup or every straw doing this, some random and unknown percentage would do it. Combined with advertising, it could be an effective deterrent in a place where this is a real problem.
People keep mentioning a bar's reputation, but at the end of the day if this is a real problem for your bar, your reputation is already screwed. This seems to me like a very pro-active way of working on fixing an already broken reputation.
That's where I think this product can't really be considered a consumer product. It would be much more useful for businesses.
At first glance, the same criticism holds for a bar that has these ("you think your patrons are rapists?" or "that place is so bad it needs those cups" spring to mind). But I feel like that's just a marketing challenge.
Instead, I think the company selling the cups could market them with focus on the avoidance of sexual assault and make their customers (bars/clubs) look like community leaders. Maybe they'll even have a cool little symbol to plaster beneath the neon signs. I have a hunch that that symbol could sway more customers than the availability of Bud Light.
You'd be surprised. I'm fairly sure I was drugged one night out at a club in London while out with coworkers. Fairly upscale place, very rough experience.
No, I think the rest of civilization should be warped around preserving "bar culture" and our best minds should be eternally in a cat and mouse game of straw maker vs underground organic chemist.
(Note I was kidding)
Going out drinking is no longer a sane activity. So don't.
When the drink isn't drugged, these look just like straws and cups that don't detect drugs. This suggests an obvious attack: swap out the straw or cup for a plain plastic one. (Countermeasure: make the cups and straws look distinctive.)
I happen to know (no time to look up the patent number now, sorry) that this is covered by a US, and EU patent. A friend of mine lost more than €30,000 to being sued by a firm that already holds the rights to this.
I hope he figures it out before they start trolling him. My friend's “invention” also covered a product on beer-mats and serviettes that would change colour under the same circumstances, unfortunately the patent he was facing down was so broadly written that it covered basically anything that could be used to detect daterape drugs in a drink by indicating it somehow.
Surely the patent could have been battled, but he wasn't in the financial position to do so.
A better solution is to learn the behaviors that rapists use - being pushy and overbearing, not taking no for an answer, cutting out of the herd, stuff like that. If your buddy behaves like that, don't let him get away with it.
And it's useless to detect rape drugs because the biggest rape drug is alcohol.
Why does this frequently "invented" useless item keep getting press every time it is "invented" for the dozenth time? These are really misguided devices, that give people a false sense of safety (it is even labeled "safe" on the non-spiked drink) when alcohol is far and away the most used and most dangerous date rape drug.
You could always invent your own strip that detects alcohol and displays UNSAFE. That way people will be reminded before they drink their vodka tonic that it contains alcohol.
[+] [-] Nursie|12 years ago|reply
2. Obviously people do get drugged occasionally, the inventor seems to have had it happen to him
3. Unfortunately there seems to be no real evidence that GHB or ketamine are often used in sexual assaults, and even Rohypnol which has the worst reputation has not often been detected. A straw that could detect a drink that's stronger than you think it is might be more useful, AFAICT the number one date-rape drug is alcohol.
(I want to be absolutely clear here, I'm not saying date rape doesn't happen, I'm not saying that some really nasty people don't deliberately get others into pliable states to take advantage of them, but AFAICT the use of drugs in the way the media likes to run scare stories about is very uncommon)
[+] [-] justinsteele|12 years ago|reply
Uncommon is pretty broad, if something as severe as being drugged happens to one person out of every 200 each night, it is "common" in my mind.
[+] [-] keevie|12 years ago|reply
It's the original and most effective date rape drug, and no one even really objects to people using it for that purpose.
Getting people drunk to get them to sleep with you isn't really /wrong./ Once you start using scary drugs that no one has ever heard of, then wow, that's something we can condemn. Especially since no one we know would ever do such a thing.
[+] [-] dobbsbob|12 years ago|reply
I also don't think this guy's idea will work very well, and instead will create a false sense of security instead of just watching your drink, which is probably the reason cases of Rohypnol/GHB have declined in N. America since there's so much education about guarding your drink or tossing it if you leave it alone. Bouncers also provide benefit denial of this crime/scam, and will usually stop somebody walking out dragging a girl until they find her friends, at least here they do.
Another problem is I see criminals just bringing in their own straws and switching them while dumping in the drug. Bars are unlikely to order these glasses unless they are inexpensive, they go through so many broken glasses it's not worth it to them to swtich. Their bleach + high heat cleaning methods might render the protection useless too after a few washings.
[+] [-] samstave|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] incision|12 years ago|reply
Also, if the technology involved is anything like the color-changing "field test" kits that cops use, false positives will be a problem.
An associate of mine was booked for "heroin possession" when an overzealous cop decided to test his aspirin during a traffic stop - he was released the instant he got a hold of a lawyer.
[+] [-] eggbrain|12 years ago|reply
1) I assume the cups have to be disposable, as the strips probably don't work multiple times. Most bars I've been to don't use disposable cups.
2) Even if they did, it has to be cost effective for the bar to consider using them. If 1000 cups is $250 (0.25/cup) and you can get 10,000 normal cups for that price, that's going to probably factor into their decision.
3) The bar might be worried that having these cups might reflect poorly on their reputation. I can imagine people saying to themselves "Why is the bar using special glasses that detect date rape? Is date rape a problem at this bar?" When you introduce an item like this it might lead to speculation that there is a problem when really you're trying to be safe. It's like if you installed a metal detector at a club and put bars on the windows -- you might be doing it just to be safe, but your patrons might think "do things happen here that warrant security precautions like this"?
[+] [-] hfsktr|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Millennium|12 years ago|reply
I suggest nail polish for two reasons. One is that it removes the need to carry specialized tools: once you've done your nails, you can test 10 drinks and leave the bottle at home. Not having to carry a tool is somewhat more convenient, but it also means the tool can't be forgotten, lost, stolen, or tampered with.
The other advantage is discretion. It's not difficult, with a setup like this, to test a drink without others knowing what you are doing. It could be argued that people shouldn't mind being tested, but from a pragmatic standpoint, the kind of person who spikes a drink is the kind of person who could very easily become dangerous if they know they're being put to the test. A discreet test, therefore, is a safer test, and since these tests are supposed to be all about safety, it follows that a discreet test is also a better test.
[+] [-] tinha|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bluetidepro|12 years ago|reply
Invents? I thought this has been around for quite awhile now? I remember hearing about things like this years ago. Maybe it was just the idea, and had not yet been actually a physical product though?
[+] [-] diydsp|12 years ago|reply
It was also invented by scientists in Tel Aviv in August 2012: http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/08/24/tel-aviv-researchers-de...
Apparently also in August 2011 by the same scientists: http://www.geekosystem.com/straw-detects-drugs/
[+] [-] andrewhillman|12 years ago|reply
My guess is that he is banking that the patent has value to cup manufacturers but the cup manufacturers probably don't want to hire a slew of scientist for R&D. They just want to make and sell cups.
[+] [-] adamio|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] semiprivate|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] venomsnake|12 years ago|reply
Just before going upstairs she just calls to the "warden" and if she is speaking coherent ... do whatever you like. If not - the trusted party can take a cab or signal the police.
[+] [-] VLM|12 years ago|reply
I'm with you on this. Nothing stupider than slapping a technical solution on a social problem and calling it good.
Hmm, going out to drink unknown substances out of other peoples cups and letting other people mix potions for you and drinking out of cups people leave laying around unsupervised for others to mess with, is unsafe now, so "open mouth and out comes ridiculous cross between rube goldberg, life magazine predictions from 75 years ago about the future, and star trek technobabble". No, its just an obsolete, dangerous, dumb way to spend your time. You wanna do something stupid, fine, have fun, but don't come crying to me about how us smart people "have" to do something about your dumb decisions.
Kinda like free love was cool before HIV. Or going drunk driving was a great idea when you drove your own horse, but really dumb idea after cars. Sorry to break it to all the whiners but like it or not we live in the 2010s so deal with it or suffer. Going out drinking means pretty scary odds of date rape. So unless you're dense as neutronium, don't do it.
Before the chorus of how dare I blame the victim, well I have the right to blame them because I'm not an idiot. Going out drinking might have been fun in ye olden daze but its not ye olden daze anymore, its dumb and dangerous and THAT is why I have the right to blame the victim. I didn't get this brilliant knowledge from a reveled religion or a secret sauce, but from incessant whining of journalist reports, any other moron out there should be able to figure out the same thing I figured out, which is not to go out drinking anymore. Too bad for the victim if they're too dumb or lazy to think like the human being they are. Actions do have consequences.
I do have genuine pity for like "the first" date rape victims, how could she have possibly known and she'd not to blame. But we've had a lot of journalism since then. Not for some idiot who went out last night with a virtual bullseye painted on their fun parts, knowing fully whats probably about to happen, knowing that when the inevitable happens, they can just blame "society" or maybe blame the "techies for not inventing a cure"... anyone to blame but themselves.
There are perfectly good social solutions to this social problem. BYOB. Carry a fashionable hip flask. Strange as it may sound, you can socialize with friends without consuming liquids of any sort (insane concept, huh?). Take up an intoxicant that's safer than alcohol and harder (impossible?) to spike, like weed. "Back when I was a kid" we got totally drunk BEFORE we went out, who wants to repeatedly pay $7 a glass for something I can get drunk on at home for 75 cents/can, especially when you're a poor student. Only get drunk with actual friends at home instead of criminal strangers at a bar who want to take advantage of you. We're all smart here, its not very hard to figure out. These "revolutionary" ideas might negatively impact someones entrenched profitable business model? Tough cookies. Cry me a river.
But don't spew random tech all over an outmoded idiotic behavior and call it brilliant. Its just obsolete thrashing about. Wanna suffer? Fine go out and do it. I'm not going to feel any pity when the inevitable happens.
Don't worry, people are still going to find the numerous other ways to act stupid and hurt themselves.
[+] [-] diminoten|12 years ago|reply
People keep mentioning a bar's reputation, but at the end of the day if this is a real problem for your bar, your reputation is already screwed. This seems to me like a very pro-active way of working on fixing an already broken reputation.
[+] [-] doingitwrong|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ultramundane828|12 years ago|reply
At first glance, the same criticism holds for a bar that has these ("you think your patrons are rapists?" or "that place is so bad it needs those cups" spring to mind). But I feel like that's just a marketing challenge.
Instead, I think the company selling the cups could market them with focus on the avoidance of sexual assault and make their customers (bars/clubs) look like community leaders. Maybe they'll even have a cool little symbol to plaster beneath the neon signs. I have a hunch that that symbol could sway more customers than the availability of Bud Light.
Just some of my thoughts.
[+] [-] dpeck|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zerovox|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] VLM|12 years ago|reply
(Note I was kidding)
Going out drinking is no longer a sane activity. So don't.
[+] [-] pjscott|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xsmasher|12 years ago|reply
Either one could lead to a dangerous situation.
[+] [-] ukapu|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codebeaker|12 years ago|reply
I hope he figures it out before they start trolling him. My friend's “invention” also covered a product on beer-mats and serviettes that would change colour under the same circumstances, unfortunately the patent he was facing down was so broadly written that it covered basically anything that could be used to detect daterape drugs in a drink by indicating it somehow.
Surely the patent could have been battled, but he wasn't in the financial position to do so.
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jkoehler|12 years ago|reply
- is the problem big enough for bars to care about?
- do cup producers increase their rev/profit with this cup?
[+] [-] newbie12|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NegativeK|12 years ago|reply
There's a chance, though, that you may be calling low quality ethanol alcohol rubbing alcohol, and I'm just missing it.
[+] [-] JulianMorrison|12 years ago|reply
And it's useless to detect rape drugs because the biggest rape drug is alcohol.
[+] [-] asdasf|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jwoah12|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jkoehler|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] celwell|12 years ago|reply