You know what I will pay for? The newspaper on my Kindle, at a reasonable price, with all the features of the print version. Let's take The Washington Post just as an example. Home delivery can be had for ~$10/mo [1] (I don't live in DC, so this is the only price I could easily find for delivery). Meanwhile, the Kindle newspaper version of the Washington Post is $12/mo [2] and according to the reviews, is missing:
That's a damn good question, and should be asked more often.
Our regional newspaper kept annoying me for several years with sales calls after we cancelled their subscription. Finally one of their sales reps asked what was wrong about the paper and what would it take for me to pay for it. My response: "I won't pay for reprinted, two days old glorified gossip. Give me news reporting that can go counter to the paper's official line, with depth and bredth comparable to that of Salon or Guardian."
This was nearly three years ago. They haven't called since.
All of the things you listed are things that would be much better on a mobile delivery platform. No wonder WaPo can't make any money.
Classified ad syndication is begging to be disrupted. Crossword puzzles too. Letters to the Editor needs to be a heavily moderated forum. Sports scores with realtime updates?
I still think that what I call "microsubscription" will fix this -- pay a subscription to a clearinghouse, who then pays out to publishers according to usage. If you read mostly WaPo this month, they get most of the money. If next month HN is the main activity, HN gets the lion's share.
I am not the first to this idea. Kachingle made a flashy start but fell to pieces first when they got into a crazy vendetta with the NYT and then afterwards when a business-method patent application fell through.
Readability tried but ran into the problem of holding money on trust for websites whose owners can't be identified. They also carried the overhead of running a proxy server. Not worth it for $5 a month.
(I don't include Flattr in this list. I still think that making people think about it is asking too much to make the model work.)
I stumbled on the same basic business model in 2008 and I've been chipping away at it ever since. My honours project at university was based on developing a secure mechanism to track users as they visited different sites. That scheme turned out to be broken. I developed a new tracking scheme, which is currently passing through the digestive system of IP Australia and the USPTO.
I guess the moral is: watch this space.
(Or: give me money, I promise to do smart things with it)
I came up with this without reading it from anybody but thought that this will be something that would not benefit the content producers like the Post. Similarly to how most individual channels wouldn't benefit if I just paid for the ones I watched on my cable subscription.
I always wonder why people go out of their way to dig up old quotes which contradict current behavior. People change their minds. Or come up with new ideas. Or have a breakthrough of some kind.
I highly doubt Bezos would have spent $250m (even if that is small time money to him) if he still believed what he said last year.
Or maybe he still believes that, and he feels he can still do something with a major news paper that sits within those lines.
Either way I am unsure why this is making it as an HN post.
Because it's interesting, and there are a lot of possibilities about what may have caused his change in thinking - I highly doubt Bezos would have spent $250m (even if that is small time money to him) if he still believed what he said last year.
Of course, there may not have been a complete change in his thinking, and he feels he can still do something with a major news paper that sits within those lines.
Either way, Bezos is currently finding print news a worthwhile thing to invest in, and if your business intersects with either of his (or you're just curious), it might be interesting to read a post on HN in which he expresses a very different opinion a very short time ago simply in order to have a historical perspective on the evolution of his views.
funny thing is that there is nothing that contradictory in what Bezos said in that article and his actions in buying the newspaper
“There is one thing I’m certain about: there won’t be printed newspapers in twenty years. Maybe as luxury items in some hotels that want to offer them as an extravagant service. Printed papers won’t be normal in twenty years.”
This seems true, I haven't read a printed paper in almost 10-15 years and the kids coming up today are probably not going to either. So this feels right to me.
“On the Web, people don’t pay for news and it’s too late for that to change”
This is true too, news it commoditized. A story breaks on Twitter or CNN within minutes. And within a day, you've discussed and argued over it with all your friends ... so why would anyone pay for information thats free everywhere else. What they will pay for is exclusive, well written content, that isn't available, for free, anywhere else. That I think, is where the secret of Bezos acquisition lies.
Steve Jobs in 2003 "We have no plans to make a tablet computer", meanwhile the iPhone itself was a spin out project from original iPad development efforts that I believe started at least a year earlier. Don't take things people say prima facie.
This deal was just announced, and we don't know enough to say that we shouldn't take Bezos's words at face value. His plans for the Post may be taking it digital, turning it into a boutique printed offering, or a combination of both. From the article:
>There is one thing I’m certain about: there won’t be printed newspapers in twenty years. Maybe as luxury items in some hotels that want to offer them as an extravagant service.
He can take it digital or upscale print and remain entirely consistent with his quoted stances." Heck, -he could even keep the current model exactly as is as long as he turns a profit and be one of the "last men standing"
>Printed papers won’t be normal in twenty years.”
Really, all he was saying it that we're trending away from print. In the same sentence that he said there would be no print in twenty, he implied there will be some print in twenty...
I think the biggest issue is that newspapers, just like magazines and cable, are bundled content and consumers hate being forced into bundled content. "I just want to read the one article that peaked my interest. Is that so hard?". The problem is the economic model then goes from paying steady dollars for the brand name of a good institution, to paying pennies per article (maybe based on sensational headlines and yellow journalism).
Can't really be done effectively. Banks charge for using your card. If the cost of the transaction exceeds the cost of the content, then you can't make money doing it that way.
And since banks rely on maintaining a reserve they have no real motivation to allow you to make rapid transfers - especially since it would introduce people hunting for the best interest rates.
Could hold user's accounts until they've reached a certain threshold but that introduces risk on both ends of the transaction.
One of the reasons Link bait titles kind of suck at times. The author of this just like many of its readers KNOWS that Bezos didn't buy the Post to keep it running as it is.
The reality is he's an innovator and there probably are very few people who know exactly what he plans on doing with it(he may even be included in that group)
But one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that he intends to change the way news is consumed.
In the world as it stands it only makes sense that digital newspapers are delivering stories straight to our devices as they happen.
With the Whispernet network Kindle has Bezos has an amazing opportunity to allow papers to distribute devices for consumption that consumers can keep in their homes and have updated as the news happens.
This is the way for them to become relevant again and I'd place a bet saying its part of his thinking for the new way forward too.
No more newspaper delivery boys, but the writers who have for the last decade struggled to remain relevant can come back into their own again with the relevance of articles fresh off the wire and they already have the added advantage of being perceived as a more reliable source than most bloggers.
I hope this becomes what it can. because it CAN be great
In the journalese about Bezos's latest buy and wondering why, I have yet to see a mention of why Bezos quit managing hedge funds to start up Amazon. He noticed that there was a tax benefit to selling across state lines, i.e. no state sales tax had to be paid. Hence he setup in favourable Washington state rather than anywhere else, to keep things a lot more tax efficient than his competitors. At the time those competitors did not notice what he was doing.
With where we are now there is the real possibility that Bezos has outwitted everyone again with some loophole/tax perk that you would have to be an investment banker to really appreciate.
I think he bought "WaPo" for the same reason he bought "Goodreads:" the users of both are readers and he sells books. Specifically, the Book Review section.
Even if the print edition operates at a slight loss, controlling a popular (perhaps the second most popular) newspaper Book Review section would be of immense value to Amazon.
At one point in time, daytime TV existed simply to sell detergent (hence, "Soap Opera.") I could definitely see a time where newspapers exist to sell stuff on-line.
I have to disagree. In my opinion, the kindle reviews are far more influencial than the Book Review section of WaPo. I think you are seeing in the wrong way, Newspapers are getting less and less influential as time goes by, who wants to read news from yesterday? So, the best move is to leverage the actual authority WaPo has, and give them more relevance in the actual world.
1. Just because he is rich and famous doesn't mean he is an oracle with a time machine. He puts on his pants one leg at a time; makes predictions just like the rest of us, gets them wrong too.
2. After thinking hard about it, I have decided to pay for the NYT. I still can break through the pay wall. However their content is amazing. Saving stuff, using their rudimentary recommendation system and occasionally getting the print version is nice.
I think you've hit it on the nail. People pay to consume on their devices. That's the model Amazon is going for (they've explicitly said it's not the hardware, it's the subscriptions stupid). So a Post which tantalizes you on the web but delivers the actual articles you can only read on your device, via a subscription. The devices are locked down, and it's not the web. Boom.
Hm, is the patronage idea from the table already? What would I do if I had one billion dollar of leisure money? I guess I would buy a world-leading, still struggling social institution that has a high value for society - for just a quarter of my fortune.
[+] [-] freehunter|12 years ago|reply
1) Letters to the editor
2) Editorial cartoons
3) The comics pages
4) The crossword puzzle
5) The box scores
6) Classified ads
7) Sunday inserts, including coupons
8) Pictures
[1] http://www.subscription.com/washington-post/
[2] http://www.amazon.com/The-Washington-Post-Kindle-Ad-Free/dp/...
[+] [-] bostik|12 years ago|reply
That's a damn good question, and should be asked more often.
Our regional newspaper kept annoying me for several years with sales calls after we cancelled their subscription. Finally one of their sales reps asked what was wrong about the paper and what would it take for me to pay for it. My response: "I won't pay for reprinted, two days old glorified gossip. Give me news reporting that can go counter to the paper's official line, with depth and bredth comparable to that of Salon or Guardian."
This was nearly three years ago. They haven't called since.
[+] [-] fnordfnordfnord|12 years ago|reply
Classified ad syndication is begging to be disrupted. Crossword puzzles too. Letters to the Editor needs to be a heavily moderated forum. Sports scores with realtime updates?
[+] [-] grimtrigger|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jacques_chester|12 years ago|reply
I am not the first to this idea. Kachingle made a flashy start but fell to pieces first when they got into a crazy vendetta with the NYT and then afterwards when a business-method patent application fell through.
Readability tried but ran into the problem of holding money on trust for websites whose owners can't be identified. They also carried the overhead of running a proxy server. Not worth it for $5 a month.
(I don't include Flattr in this list. I still think that making people think about it is asking too much to make the model work.)
I stumbled on the same basic business model in 2008 and I've been chipping away at it ever since. My honours project at university was based on developing a secure mechanism to track users as they visited different sites. That scheme turned out to be broken. I developed a new tracking scheme, which is currently passing through the digestive system of IP Australia and the USPTO.
I guess the moral is: watch this space.
(Or: give me money, I promise to do smart things with it)
[+] [-] rpgmaker|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nwzpaperman|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrcharles|12 years ago|reply
I highly doubt Bezos would have spent $250m (even if that is small time money to him) if he still believed what he said last year.
Or maybe he still believes that, and he feels he can still do something with a major news paper that sits within those lines.
Either way I am unsure why this is making it as an HN post.
[+] [-] HelloMcFly|12 years ago|reply
I'm more interested in what exactly changed his mind than I am in the fact that his mind has changed.
[+] [-] VLM|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pessimizer|12 years ago|reply
Of course, there may not have been a complete change in his thinking, and he feels he can still do something with a major news paper that sits within those lines.
Either way, Bezos is currently finding print news a worthwhile thing to invest in, and if your business intersects with either of his (or you're just curious), it might be interesting to read a post on HN in which he expresses a very different opinion a very short time ago simply in order to have a historical perspective on the evolution of his views.
[+] [-] trustfundbaby|12 years ago|reply
funny thing is that there is nothing that contradictory in what Bezos said in that article and his actions in buying the newspaper
“There is one thing I’m certain about: there won’t be printed newspapers in twenty years. Maybe as luxury items in some hotels that want to offer them as an extravagant service. Printed papers won’t be normal in twenty years.”
This seems true, I haven't read a printed paper in almost 10-15 years and the kids coming up today are probably not going to either. So this feels right to me.
“On the Web, people don’t pay for news and it’s too late for that to change”
This is true too, news it commoditized. A story breaks on Twitter or CNN within minutes. And within a day, you've discussed and argued over it with all your friends ... so why would anyone pay for information thats free everywhere else. What they will pay for is exclusive, well written content, that isn't available, for free, anywhere else. That I think, is where the secret of Bezos acquisition lies.
[+] [-] sjtgraham|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] deveac|12 years ago|reply
This deal was just announced, and we don't know enough to say that we shouldn't take Bezos's words at face value. His plans for the Post may be taking it digital, turning it into a boutique printed offering, or a combination of both. From the article:
>There is one thing I’m certain about: there won’t be printed newspapers in twenty years. Maybe as luxury items in some hotels that want to offer them as an extravagant service.
He can take it digital or upscale print and remain entirely consistent with his quoted stances." Heck, -he could even keep the current model exactly as is as long as he turns a profit and be one of the "last men standing"
>Printed papers won’t be normal in twenty years.”
Really, all he was saying it that we're trending away from print. In the same sentence that he said there would be no print in twenty, he implied there will be some print in twenty...
[+] [-] grimtrigger|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 6d0debc071|12 years ago|reply
And since banks rely on maintaining a reserve they have no real motivation to allow you to make rapid transfers - especially since it would introduce people hunting for the best interest rates.
Could hold user's accounts until they've reached a certain threshold but that introduces risk on both ends of the transaction.
[+] [-] fnordfnordfnord|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zbruhnke|12 years ago|reply
The reality is he's an innovator and there probably are very few people who know exactly what he plans on doing with it(he may even be included in that group)
But one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that he intends to change the way news is consumed.
In the world as it stands it only makes sense that digital newspapers are delivering stories straight to our devices as they happen.
With the Whispernet network Kindle has Bezos has an amazing opportunity to allow papers to distribute devices for consumption that consumers can keep in their homes and have updated as the news happens.
This is the way for them to become relevant again and I'd place a bet saying its part of his thinking for the new way forward too.
No more newspaper delivery boys, but the writers who have for the last decade struggled to remain relevant can come back into their own again with the relevance of articles fresh off the wire and they already have the added advantage of being perceived as a more reliable source than most bloggers.
I hope this becomes what it can. because it CAN be great
[+] [-] Theodores|12 years ago|reply
With where we are now there is the real possibility that Bezos has outwitted everyone again with some loophole/tax perk that you would have to be an investment banker to really appreciate.
[+] [-] vasilipupkin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] officemonkey|12 years ago|reply
Even if the print edition operates at a slight loss, controlling a popular (perhaps the second most popular) newspaper Book Review section would be of immense value to Amazon.
At one point in time, daytime TV existed simply to sell detergent (hence, "Soap Opera.") I could definitely see a time where newspapers exist to sell stuff on-line.
[+] [-] dudurocha|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eshvk|12 years ago|reply
2. After thinking hard about it, I have decided to pay for the NYT. I still can break through the pay wall. However their content is amazing. Saving stuff, using their rudimentary recommendation system and occasionally getting the print version is nice.
[+] [-] EGreg|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ape4|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] netrus|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dschiptsov|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] daveying99|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] archildress|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nwzpaperman|12 years ago|reply