Just as Soylent is disrupting the traditional food industry
Huh?
I've asked this before and never got an answer. How is Soylent different from Ensure Complete? Is it cheaper? Better made? Easier to order? Tastes better? Better for me? Higher quality?
Because if it isn't really any different then what Soylent will need to do is market better than those other companies. Because I'd definitely trust Abbott with my health over random start up with indistinguishable product.
You see I'm actually interested in things like this as a 'meal replacement'. I quite often drink chocolate milk instead of eating lunch and I can buy nutritionally complete things like Ensure Complete. So, what makes Soylent special?
tldr; There's room in the market for more than one non-solid dietary product, the goal of Soylent is to be a complete alternative that supports an active life rather than something that just lets you survive, ensure is expensive and low calorie.
I suspect that the interest comes from the radical branding. "Ensure" is associated with hospitals and the aging population, whereas "Soylent" is historically associated with dystopia and recently with some ambitious kids. One exit would be to create an energy drink-like (young target market) product that's just a re-branded Ensure.
But if you're currently using Ensure, perhaps you know of other ways to improve on it? They're both basically ramen for the well-off.
(And +1 to tlb: simply removing sugar is an improvement in my eyes.)
Do you believe generally that Big Food makes healthier products than independents? I believe the reverse is usually true in the US.
You can trust Big Food to pump their products full of sugar because testing shows it makes consumers buy more. Sugar is second on Ensure's ingredient list (http://ensure.com/products/ensure-complete-shakes) while Soylent is not sweet.
I wanted to compare the ingredients and their amounts but I can't seem to find the formula for Ensure Complete. If you know where to find it, please post a link. If not, I guess that would be one reason why Soylent is preferable to Ensure Complete.
The last time I had an ensure I noticed it had 200 calories. Yes you read that right. Id have to drink ten of them to replace a days meals at $3 each that would be $30 a day or $900 a month to feed just one person.
It seems like marketing mostly. Maybe I'm just too old to understand all these crazy kids these days, but I don't see the appeal in drinking my meals. I really don't think this is going to work out.
A promise to open source their ingredients list, and if I remember correctly, their sourcing and supply chain, is tremendous. Not to mention the last I heard they were going full vegan.
One way its different is that it was on Fox News yesterday and millions of people had a chance to hear about it. Versus, until you told me, I never heard of Ensure before.
If I understand correctly, Ensure is not meant to be a whole-diet replacement, and Soylent is. However, I have not studied this, and I caution you to not take me too seriously here.
... electrical engineering, computer science and entrepreneurship ... Industrial and Systems engineering. He has worked in finance, procurement, and logistics ...sales, finance, and marketing.... early stage technology companies ... Big Data ... operations and sales ... drives the sales channels ... sales engineer in the desktop video conferencing market ...
...and that's it. So I'm supposed to upend the foundations of my health & body based on the... "research" of a bunch of 20 something electrical engineers & marketers? I don't want my body to be "disrupted", I don't wish for my health to "fail fast." This is not a photosharing app you're building.
I find it profoundly bizarre and irresponsible that these people are recommending a total dietary replacement and they don't have single nutritionist or even anyone with a medical background on staff. Soylent team: you are MARKETERS, not nutritionists! Go disrupt something that either a) has fewer potential disastrous consequences or b) you actually know something about.
on the other hand USian diets in many quarters are so bad that this stuff can't be much worse. :) But seriously, even for the veneer of legitimacy, hire a nutritionist! The lack of one makes me think you couldn't find one who would touch the project with a 10 foot pole.
Marketers have used the fake "experts" card so extensively, that it diminished the value of the opinion of the expert to near zero. He chooses fundamentally pure approach of giving the actual details of the product to you to judge. The information is there, read it, analyze the books used by the medics and nutritionists and judge by yourself. If you feel the need of an opinion of an expert, you are willingly trusting any potential scamer with the "nutritionist" or "doctor" title. Those experts are not some all-knowing gods that can single-handedly approve as safe, or disprove as harmful. They are the same people with the same access to information you and me has. And since nobody has experience with that kind of products, opinion of people who have given some title by someone is not much more valuable than anyone else who learns about nutrition himself.
Are you really concerned about health of people who otherwise eat food that is PROVEN to be extremely unhealthy, or the idea of drinking nothing but one-of-a-kind liquid is so alien to you that you can't believe it could actually work?
A bad idea run by someone who has no clue about what he's doing combined with another bad idea supported by people who have no clue about what they're doing? Sign me up.
Every time I see a Soylent article on HN I hope that it's all just a sick joke that will soon be revealed as an elaborate hoax and forgotten about. Why the hell would anyone in their right mind base their entire diet off of some liquid concoction made up by some random guy who is clearly not a nutritionist? Why don't you guys just learn to eat a healthy and balanced diet?
I'd tend to expect that as this becomes more popular, they'll get some nutritionists on board. That doesn't mean it's completely insane for people to try it before that point.
Personally, I don't want to be an early adopter of this (I don't like to mix "bleeding edge" and health), but I'm quite interested. And to answer your last question: the hope is that this is a healthy and balanced diet.
Can anyone recommend an authoritative compendium of what that is please? Preferably linking to multi-year statistically significant studies that take into account the obvious externalities ( local weather, amount of exercise, genetics, time of eating etc). I don't really want to make nutrition research another time-consuming hobby, but I don't want to unnecessarily kill myself faster either.
The body is a machine, it takes the good and throws away the bad. That's simple enough... but arguing against something that is aiming to be healthy while eating a bigmac and sucking on a coke isn't a convincing argument to me. He might have something.
I wouldn't eat a pure Soylent diet.... but 20% of my diet... maybe?
Sorry, but I can never trust something made for human consumption by the guy who wrote this: http://robrhinehart.com/?p=572 (especially the Hormones, Antibiotics and Processed Food section).
Basically the formula is supposed to be customizable. Ie. more protein for body builders etc.
If it becomes big, which, I guess is possible, it only makes sense for the Soylent community to hack away. Im thinking it may evolve into few solid recipes that can be mass-distributed and then for those who want fine grained control they can get the separate ingredients/supplements themselves and either modify an existing recipe or create one from scratch.
This whole thing would be pretty stupid-er if it was only going to be one recipe.
I have a lot to learn from the whey protein industry. They've managed to convince people who have never stepped foot in a gym to drink the old whey and maltodextrin concoction and call it a revolution.
Last I heard they were removing the whey protein in favor of non-animal products. Also, the idea is that you can literally never eat anything other then Soylent, and have complete nutrition for an active lifestyle.
I guess I'm going to write up an explanation and justification based on my review of nutrition research at some point. But it's not like it's monetizeable, so I lack motivation.
I find it surprising that so many people here are reluctant to try soylent and afraid to "risk their health" because it is made by "a bunch of 20-something computer scientists".
Do you really think the traditional food industry as it is is looking out for you? Most people I know have terribly unhealthy diets and almost anything that anyone put any thought in will be better for them. I'm not saying Soylent is perfect or doesn't cause any long term ill-effects, I'm just saying that it can't be much worse than a lot of "normal" diets.
At least the traditional food industry continues to be in the business of producing stuff that is mostly food. This is a radically different concept, as it is synthesized from the raw nutritional components.
Whether it is safe or not, this is a great case study for nutritionists. But I don't want to be a guinea pig.
What do you mean traditional food industry? If you buy natural ingredients and cook them yourself, who are you depending on to look out for you? I'm pretty sure the people afraid of "risking their health" are not the ones who eat processed foods for every meal.
I would love to believe in this product, but there are just so many sketchy statements on the homepage alone that I doubt the ability of the team. People are literally going to entrust their lives to this product and the best third-party assurances they have are completely un-cited quotes such as:
"The taste is awesome."
"As a Biologist/Chemist I approve of Soylent and really want to start using it."
"My mood experience! It has improved a lot lately. And by a lot, I mean A LOT."
[+] [-] jgrahamc|12 years ago|reply
Huh?
I've asked this before and never got an answer. How is Soylent different from Ensure Complete? Is it cheaper? Better made? Easier to order? Tastes better? Better for me? Higher quality?
Because if it isn't really any different then what Soylent will need to do is market better than those other companies. Because I'd definitely trust Abbott with my health over random start up with indistinguishable product.
You see I'm actually interested in things like this as a 'meal replacement'. I quite often drink chocolate milk instead of eating lunch and I can buy nutritionally complete things like Ensure Complete. So, what makes Soylent special?
[+] [-] alainmeier|12 years ago|reply
http://discourse.soylent.me/t/comparing-soylent-to-existing-...
tldr; There's room in the market for more than one non-solid dietary product, the goal of Soylent is to be a complete alternative that supports an active life rather than something that just lets you survive, ensure is expensive and low calorie.
[+] [-] ynniv|12 years ago|reply
But if you're currently using Ensure, perhaps you know of other ways to improve on it? They're both basically ramen for the well-off.
(And +1 to tlb: simply removing sugar is an improvement in my eyes.)
[+] [-] tlb|12 years ago|reply
You can trust Big Food to pump their products full of sugar because testing shows it makes consumers buy more. Sugar is second on Ensure's ingredient list (http://ensure.com/products/ensure-complete-shakes) while Soylent is not sweet.
[+] [-] Lemmih|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baddox|12 years ago|reply
More popular and prominent in certain demographics. Which is what "disrupt" implies, versus "improves upon."
[+] [-] tocomment|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] falk|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kazagistar|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foobarbazqux|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] billybob255|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joering2|12 years ago|reply
One way its different is that it was on Fox News yesterday and millions of people had a chance to hear about it. Versus, until you told me, I never heard of Ensure before.
[+] [-] JohnHaugeland|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] northwest|12 years ago|reply
Why on earth should I not eat natural and unprocessed foods?
It seems to me that this is what our bodies are trained to process. Why change that?
[+] [-] MDS100|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sequoia|12 years ago|reply
...and that's it. So I'm supposed to upend the foundations of my health & body based on the... "research" of a bunch of 20 something electrical engineers & marketers? I don't want my body to be "disrupted", I don't wish for my health to "fail fast." This is not a photosharing app you're building.
I find it profoundly bizarre and irresponsible that these people are recommending a total dietary replacement and they don't have single nutritionist or even anyone with a medical background on staff. Soylent team: you are MARKETERS, not nutritionists! Go disrupt something that either a) has fewer potential disastrous consequences or b) you actually know something about.
on the other hand USian diets in many quarters are so bad that this stuff can't be much worse. :) But seriously, even for the veneer of legitimacy, hire a nutritionist! The lack of one makes me think you couldn't find one who would touch the project with a 10 foot pole.
[+] [-] cLeEOGPw|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cLeEOGPw|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SCdF|12 years ago|reply
(where succeed means "accrue money and and mind-share")
[+] [-] cuttooth|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Widdershin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jafaku|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zhemao|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JoshTriplett|12 years ago|reply
Personally, I don't want to be an early adopter of this (I don't like to mix "bleeding edge" and health), but I'm quite interested. And to answer your last question: the hope is that this is a healthy and balanced diet.
[+] [-] polymatter|12 years ago|reply
Can anyone recommend an authoritative compendium of what that is please? Preferably linking to multi-year statistically significant studies that take into account the obvious externalities ( local weather, amount of exercise, genetics, time of eating etc). I don't really want to make nutrition research another time-consuming hobby, but I don't want to unnecessarily kill myself faster either.
[+] [-] ParadisoShlee|12 years ago|reply
I wouldn't eat a pure Soylent diet.... but 20% of my diet... maybe?
[+] [-] w1ntermute|12 years ago|reply
Corresponding HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6115114
[+] [-] throwawayyyz|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ballard|12 years ago|reply
The only half-way valid point is on organic greenwashing.
[+] [-] mikemoka|12 years ago|reply
I mean, would soylent be enough for people going to gym frequently? would it be too much for people always working at home?
[+] [-] babby|12 years ago|reply
If it becomes big, which, I guess is possible, it only makes sense for the Soylent community to hack away. Im thinking it may evolve into few solid recipes that can be mass-distributed and then for those who want fine grained control they can get the separate ingredients/supplements themselves and either modify an existing recipe or create one from scratch.
This whole thing would be pretty stupid-er if it was only going to be one recipe.
[+] [-] dictum|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kazagistar|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ballard|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nazgulnarsil|12 years ago|reply
I guess I'm going to write up an explanation and justification based on my review of nutrition research at some point. But it's not like it's monetizeable, so I lack motivation.
[+] [-] eru|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ballard|12 years ago|reply
Store-brand ingredients and nutrition info: http://screencast.com/t/KhqgkXT73Ofe
Major-brand: http://screencast.com/t/KhqgkXT73Ofe
[+] [-] babby|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jhuckestein|12 years ago|reply
Do you really think the traditional food industry as it is is looking out for you? Most people I know have terribly unhealthy diets and almost anything that anyone put any thought in will be better for them. I'm not saying Soylent is perfect or doesn't cause any long term ill-effects, I'm just saying that it can't be much worse than a lot of "normal" diets.
[+] [-] oinksoft|12 years ago|reply
Whether it is safe or not, this is a great case study for nutritionists. But I don't want to be a guinea pig.
[+] [-] zhemao|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Goronmon|12 years ago|reply
Do you have any evidence to suggest that Soylent is better for 'most people' or are you just going on gut instinct?
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] rza|12 years ago|reply
"The taste is awesome."
"As a Biologist/Chemist I approve of Soylent and really want to start using it."
"My mood experience! It has improved a lot lately. And by a lot, I mean A LOT."
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] schrototo|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mrbannerjee|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] threepipeproblm|12 years ago|reply