top | item 6205540

This coupon code is a slap in the face

431 points| mijustin | 12 years ago |justinjackson.ca | reply

245 comments

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[+] javert|12 years ago|reply
Lenovo does this, but they quote all the prices assuming you are going to put in the coupon code, which they display on the entry page into the product you are buying.

If you don't realize you have to jump through this dumb hoop and think you are actually getting the discount automatically, which is quite easy to do (I did, and I'm no dummy), they do not reimburse you the difference if you call on the phone to explain. The guy on the phone specifically explained to me that that is their official policy in this situation.

I mean, I trusted Lenovo (good past experiences), so I wasn't being super duper careful to look for any kind of trick. Imagine that... not looking out for being tricked! What a fool I was.

If you eally want the discount, you have to cancel your order and re-order, which means getting the product later. Lenovo knows very well that many customers won't do this.

tl;dr Lenovo suits have calculated a new way to trick customers, and treat customers in a shitty way. They should be ashamed. Gipped me off for a few hundred bucks.

[+] beagle3|12 years ago|reply
I have a simple system that works very well:

Never order anything online before checking dealnews.com; Takes 10 additional seconds, saved me thousands. Among other things, they give you every single Lenovo deal (including through the Microsoft Store, which is often better than the coupons in the Lenovo store -- and usually arrives within a couple of days rather than 3 weeks), and they give you the past deals/coupons, so you can see if you need to wait a couple of days to get a 30% price reduction -- Lenovo, and many other vendors, have 30% off in two out of every 3 weeks, or two days out of every week.

[+] Silhouette|12 years ago|reply
That behaviour is surprising to me. If anyone tried something so obviously deceptive here in the UK, I expect they'd last about five minutes with the advertising standards regulators.
[+] electronous|12 years ago|reply
Just so you know "gipped" is a bigoted remark that's based on the word "gypsy".
[+] raldi|12 years ago|reply
Alternate suggestion: Have a textbox that says, "If you don't mind us asking, where did you hear of us?"

Then the radio ad or whatever can say, "Enter DAN SAVAGE as your referrer to receive a free gift!"

[+] thisishugo|12 years ago|reply
That would likely combat the problem of people quitting the checkout process because they saw a coupon box and hunted for a code. However as a method of tracking referrals I'd expect its usefulness to be close to zero, as it ostensibly is still a coupon, and will appear on the websites that offer them as such.
[+] coldpie|12 years ago|reply
This is exactly how RockAuto does it. If you enter an unknown string, it probably goes into some database that they can use for advertising. They also send out deal codes over email that are intended to go into the referral box.
[+] ruswick|12 years ago|reply
First, I'd like to point out that his suggestion is fucking absurd. Without codes, there would be no way to discern between methods of customer acquisition (eg. is this ad more effective than that ad), especially on non-web content. Moreover, the efficacy of customer acquisition would decrease tremendously (most people respond to ads because of the promise of a discount). I don't understand how the OP believes that this is financially tenable for most sites. Codes are a fundamental aspect of advertising strategy for many companies.

Second, the notion that this is hostile to the user just bemuses me. I don't understand why this has any detrimental effects on the customer. If they are fine paying full price (as they were when they began checking out), they are free to pay full price. If someone with expendable free time would rather dig through these coupon sites, that is their prerogative. The existence of a coupon code field merely gives the option to seek out a discount. This is similar to most other forms of commerce. If I have free time and want to save money, I can dig through circulars and clip ads, or I can just go to the store and pay full price. Is it offensive to the user that the self checkout also has a slot for placing coupons? No one is forcing anyone to do anything. How is it bad customer service when a user literally isn't forced to do anything other than ignore the field if they so choose? Giving people the option to save money if they are willing to exert some effort is an unequivocal positive aspect of most sites.

This piece is just incoherent to me. I honestly don't understand why this is bad in any way.

[+] joshuahedlund|12 years ago|reply
Has anybody actually done any A/B testing on this sort of thing, or are we just making competing assertions about how slapped in the face we personally feel or not?

Edit: Thanks, some pretty good results out there.

[+] jeremybencken|12 years ago|reply
There's a professor at Vanderbilt who published this paper on the topic (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6205769) in the Journal of Product & Brand Management.

Providing a code and its attendant price reduction clearly had positive effects on perceptions of fairness and satisfaction when compared to the control group.

...prompting for a code in the absence of having one had negative effects on fairness, satisfaction, and completion when compared to the control. As would be expected from these findings, the three groups were ranked in the predicted order (code > control > no code) for all dependent variables, including intention to repatronize and recommend the online store.

Equity theory, then, becomes an alternative explanation for reactions to code provision and non-provision... the Web buyer without a code experiences the additional impact of the inequity perceived if others are imagined to have a code, are selectively provided one, or are simply viewed as "special" in some sense.

[+] martin-adams|12 years ago|reply
Not A/B testing per-se, but for a client of mine we tried it out and had lots of phone calls asking how to get a discount code. It just caused confusions and more customer service work.
[+] FooBarWidget|12 years ago|reply
I can't remember the details, but I did read an article a while ago in which Microsoft or Amazon or something increased their conversion rate significantly by hiding the coupon field.
[+] sp332|12 years ago|reply
I dropped my car off for state inspection by my usual mechanic. Then I found a coupon in the local paper for $10 off an inspection at that place. When I went to pay, I showed the coupon but the mechanic told me, "oh I already did that. You're a regular, we take care of you!" I don't think I've ever seen a website that could do that.
[+] bennyg|12 years ago|reply
Imagine if a site did that haha.

"We've been tracking you, you're a regular. Here's 5% off for spending ~13min per day on our website from IP 192.168.0.1"

[+] IvyMike|12 years ago|reply
I'm a Zappos "VIP" which means I get a few tiny benefits when I shop at the "vip.zappos.com" website. So at least one site does do the "regulars get a bonus" thing.

(It also means I bought too many shoes at some point in my life.)

[+] wikwocket|12 years ago|reply
Many websites offer discounts to their regulars. You could mimic this specific behavior by automatically applying a coupon code to checkout baskets of regulars, with some text explaining how much you love them.

Of course, you might want to let users know that you do this, and that means emailing them, and that makes this more of an emailed coupon offer, which is back to being more like a traditional coupon approach, but either way hopefully you can give your regulars some warm fuzzies.

[+] burkemw3|12 years ago|reply
Doesn't Amazon do the opposite? Charge less to newbies so they get hooked and charging more to the regulars because they're hooked.
[+] njharman|12 years ago|reply
Amazon does stuff like that all the time. They just don't tell you. And it's not always an adjustment in your favor.
[+] mijustin|12 years ago|reply
Yes. Think of how this improves customer loyalty overtime, as opposed to feeling like you're constantly getting a bad deal.
[+] brianbreslin|12 years ago|reply
Did no-one learn anything from JCPenney debacle? People LOVE coupons. I've never seen a coupon code field, where I didn't find a coupon and felt like I was getting hoodwinked as this author seems to suggest.

Coupon codes are useful for promos and such. Not every customer pays the same amount, thats how the world works.

[+] liquidise|12 years ago|reply
I think you are missing the perspective of the article. Coupons (and their online codes) are a great tool for the recipients.

The article is from the perspective of a customer without a coupon. In that case, the presence of the coupon code field actually makes you less likely to buy or convert. This article isn;t blaming the methodology. It is saying the status-quo presentation is poor and needs improvement.

[+] pbj|12 years ago|reply
I second this. There have been plenty of studies that show consumers love the idea of savings, even if they're just an illusion. People would rather pay $20 for a $25 item knowing they saved $5 rather than just paying $20 with no savings.
[+] larrys|12 years ago|reply
"thats how the world works"

I love that. In start up land people always seem to ignore things that have been done successfully for years thinking that certainly there is something wrong and legacy business must be making huge mistakes and throwing out their money on things just because "it's the way it's always been done".

The problem of course is understanding which one of those things are wrong and which actually work (to which you really don't need studies) to prove.

[+] thufry|12 years ago|reply
In the analogous retail situation, with physical coupons, there is no "coupon code" field -- the cashier does not ask you "Do you have any coupons today?" Even worse would be for them to ask "Do you have the $10 off coupon on this dog food?" you'd feel like you lost $10. If you have a coupon, you present it to the cashier, and other customers aren't made aware of the fact that they're not getting the best price.
[+] fjk|12 years ago|reply
"You get pages of results: mostly garbage, some scams, and a few legitimate coupon sites. Unfortunately, the codes listed on those sites are a year old: you missed your chance."

It frustrates me when I see a coupon code box and cannot find any working codes. Oftentimes the most recent codes for a retailer on RetaiMeNot haven't been active in months or years. On the flip side, when I find a code that saves me anything, even free shipping, I am ecstatic. I feel like I am responsible, thrifty and savvy and I have a proclivity to purchase more items from that retailer later on.

I think these emotions are worth evoking in customers and banning the coupon code box destroys this ability. A referral link doesn't capture as much of the emotional satisfaction as seeing your cart totals drop after typing in a string of characters and clicking "Apply to Cart." Retailers could just hide the coupon code box when there aren't any active coupons. When a coupon is active, the box reappears.

[+] ceol|12 years ago|reply
I've done work for the kinds of retailers who have coupon code boxes, and most of the time, the only reason it's on there is because the default WordPress plugin/Joomla template/eCommerce solution has it there. No one ever thinks to remove it, despite them never planning on using it.

The best way for coupon code boxes to stop appearing is for developers and designers to bring it up with their client. A lot of the time, once the client is actually confronted with it has to make a decision, they choose not to have it.

[+] jeremybencken|12 years ago|reply
This may not be rational, but there's some research showing this is a widespread phenomenon. Mostly, it has to do with a sense of fairness. Coupon codes can make consumers feel like the merchant is being unfair, which leads to dissatisfaction.

The solution: don't show the coupon code field or make it extremely easy for consumers to get coupon codes. I've noticed more and more stores put their coupon codes right in the header while you're browsing. So it's impossible NOT to get a coupon.

http://www2.owen.vanderbilt.edu/mike.shor/research/promo/jpb... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6205769)

[+] hollerith|12 years ago|reply
>more and more stores put their coupon codes right in the header while you're browsing

By "in the header" you mean on the search-engine results page; don't you?

[+] ig1|12 years ago|reply
I've seen cases where having a coupon code actually increased conversions more than just discounting the product for everyone. The people who searched for the (easily found) coupon were far more likely to completely the purchase process because they felt like they were getting a deal.

If you're using voucher codes you shouldn't just use one approach based upon an article like this, rather you should be A/B testing different variants and see what performs for your startup. Your customers aren't the same as everyone else and you shouldn't expect them to behave the same.

[+] dminor|12 years ago|reply
> Your customers aren't the same as everyone else and you shouldn't expect them to behave the same.

Yes! In our case we found it had no effect on conversions and customer service calls increased from people asking about where to enter the (expired) code they found somewhere on the net.

Our solution was to keep the coupon code box and seed a $1 discount code on one of the coupon sites.

We stumble across these wild A/B claims from time to time and in almost every case we've seen no difference in conversions.

[+] martingordon|12 years ago|reply
Some sites present the coupon field slightly differently as a Gift Card/Gift Certificate/Coupon Code field which might help that "slapped in the face" feeling.

I noticed this on Zappos and the first Google result for "zappos coupon" is this: http://www.zappos.com/truth-about-zappos-coupons

[+] ohwp|12 years ago|reply
Happened to me: I had the code, but forgot to enter it. So afterward I contacted customer service and they just said: sorry there is nothing we can do for you.

Do you think I will be a returning customer? -no

[+] leknarf|12 years ago|reply
Outside of ad campaigns, there's another case where coupon codes are useful. If you have a moderately expensive product and an actual sales team, you can use the coupon field to let the sales team make one-off special deals for individual customers. That's useful for unusually large orders (buy 10 get 1 free) or simply if you need to apologize for some sort of error (we're sorry our site was down, here's $50 off your next order).

Coupon codes are an easily programmable solution to a wide variety of business problems. They're particularly useful for problems that are difficult to predict in advance.

[+] cdjk|12 years ago|reply
True. You can get the same thing with referrer URLs that apply a coupon code behind the scenes, e.g. example.com/store/fifty_off. The logic is the same, you're just hiding the troublesome coupon code field.
[+] thehme|12 years ago|reply
Sometimes when I'm buying online, it does bother me to find that "other" people have a coupon for something I want and that if I REALLY want it, I will need to pay full price. It specially bothers me when I'm a returning costumer and didn't receive any e-mails letting me know of a sale or coupon. This situation applies to other situation as well, for instance, think about the couple (or single person) that signed a contract to rent a place, has been a great tenant, and would like to renew the contract that is now ending soon. However, instead of the landlord saying: "hey! you have been a great tenant, so I will NOT raise your rent (or as much), so I can keep your business for longer", he/she says (thinks): "I know you like it here, so I'm going to stick it to you and raise the price of the rent, while new people who I don't even know, will get a cheaper rate and possibly not be as good a tenant as you are".

Sites should definitely keep track of loyal costumers and offer coupons in this manner and allow one to enter then once logged in, but not trouble visiting costumers with this. Letting people know they could have gotten something for cheaper is usually a discouragement from click the "place order" button. I know have definitely just x-ed out of my tab at that point in several occasions.

[+] RobGR|12 years ago|reply
I think these coupon codes produce this reaction because they remind us how non-transparent online commerce can be.

Walmart has a hard time at their brick and mortar store charging more for diapers to the poor person who lives down the street and has no car to get to competitors, and less to the better off person who arrived by car. But a huge amount of "big data" work is spent differentially pricing online commerce -- the travel industry is most famous for it of course.

The general trend of technology tends to be that tools once only available to the big institutions become democratized and more revolutionary as they are. Similarly I think the "big data" and tracking and etc will swing around into a more equitable balance.

That can be hard to believe, but try to imagine this -- you go to buy something online, but you pay with bitcoin, and a browser plugin you have pops up a screen when you are on the final checkout page -- this plugin uses the bitcoin chains and non-anonymity to show you all recent transactions with that bitcoin address. You can then get an instant sense of whether you are overpaying or getting a deal.

Such a system could be gamed and evaded of course.

At one time I discussed making a reverse-Priceline system, where consumers would use a browser plugin that shared what offers were being accepted and rejected on Priceline style reverse auctions.

The sum total such efforts is a lot of infrastructure invested in replecating what a simple open-outcry market would be, if the market were run by disinterested, trusted authority.

[+] rthomas6|12 years ago|reply
Everybody here knows about retailmenot.com, right? For the majority of places, you'll find a good repository of coupon codes without having to sift through Google results.
[+] enko|12 years ago|reply
> It’s the optics that matter.

Oh really? Refraction and reflection of light, the study of same - that's what matters is it?

Of course not. You mean appearances matter. Name-dropping some physics-sounding word does not make you sound smart, it makes you sound confused and wrong. Optics means optics. It doesn't mean whatever you choose it to mean.

Deliberately misusing words doesn't make you sound cool, it makes you sound like a "Sandwich Artist".

[+] brandon272|12 years ago|reply
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/optics

"2. (used with a plural verb) the way a situation, action, event, etc., is perceived by the public or by a particular group of people: The optics on this issue are pretty good for the Democrats. Administrators worry about the bad optics of hiring new staff during a budget crisis."

[+] TorKlingberg|12 years ago|reply
It's an established secondary meaning of the word optics. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/optics 2.( used with a plural verb ) the way a situation, action, event, etc., is perceived by the public or by a particular group of people: The optics on this issue are pretty good for the Democrats. Administrators worry about the bad optics of hiring new staff during a budget crisis.

The English language is full of words and phrases that just make writing look more fancy.

[+] ChrisNorstrom|12 years ago|reply
Although I understand the anger stemming from coupon code forms, a lot of us use them for very different reasons:

- I run http://DayOnePP.com and sell my inventions there.

- When something goes wrong for a customer you can give the customer a coupon code "sorrykarenhurney" which will give them free shipping or 10% off. This is a great way to win back customers who have had trouble. (You can rename the "Coupon Code" field to be "Customer Service Code" if you use it exclusively for this purpose)

- When I advertise my Calendars or Pens on a design blog I tell the owner that I'll give them an exclusive discount to their readers if they mention my product on the front page. I name the coupon code after the website.

- You can email coupon codes to newsletter members as a reward for signing up for your newsletter.

Although the OP has a legitimate concern, he has never run an online store and doesn't see the behind-the-scenes logic in selectively giving customers discounts. It really is a necessity. Brick & Mortar stores use them even more, but no one gets pissed off at them.