As I read more and more of those stories I can't help but wonder at how things changed. I am from a formerly-eastern-europe-soviet-bloc country (Poland) and these kinds of oppressive techniques sound very familiar. The haziness of procedures, lack of basic rights, intimidation, no accountability of state officials -- we've seen all that until 1989. At the time, while the communist regime was imposed on us, the USA seemed like heaven: transparency, procedures, basic rights, free speech, accountable officials.
Look at where we are today. I can't even imagine being held captive without arrest for hours, being questioned about the purpose of my trip, about my religion and habits, all while travelling within my country. When entering the country, the passport clerk has exactly two options: let me in, or call the police and get me arrested on the spot. I feel free and I am happy to live in a free country, together with people who because of the past oppressive Soviet regime are quite sensitive to abuses of power.
At the same time, the U.S. is rapidly degenerating into something that isn't quite the sinister oppressive regime, but getting close to the point where it could become one, if a wrong leader gets elected. It's scary.
And the worst thing is -- American people got so used to the idea of living in a free country, that they do not even admit the thought that things are going the wrong way. Most people don't see the signs.
I don't think this is that oppressive. He went through security and set off an explosives detector. The cops showed up and asked some questions. Then he left.
Nowhere in the Constitution does it say the government can't hamfistedly accuse you of a crime. All it says is that they have to charge you or let you go in 24 hours, give you a trial, and punish you in a consistent way. They did that here; they asked some questions and they let him go.
You can argue about the techniques; religious questions, not giving him water, but it's all a well-documented psychological game that they're trying to play. If they make the suspect mad, the suspect is more likely to start yelling hysterically without thinking, saving the taxpayer the cost of a long trial. It's worth a try, right? (I think the correct answer to any question is, "my lawyer will answer that. get me my lawyer.")
Anyway, I look at this like the lottery, but in reverse. Sometimes you lose the reverse lottery and a day of your life gets fucked up. But ultimately, life moves on and you have an interesting story. You can say that the government is an oppressive regime that is out to get you for your political views, or you can say you rolled the dice and lost.
Let me ask you this: say you want to check for guns and explosives before people get on an airplane. How do you do it?
It is also my perception that as western european countries (France for me) want more and more surveillance and US-like "security" laws, former soviet block countries are adding to our safeguard in the European parliament.
The number of small level scary stuff I have seen discarded because the EU told us "seriously, you can't do that" is crazy (did you know that until recently, you could be detained by the police with no lawyer for several hours in France ? The EU forced us to fix that [1]). That is the one and only reason I have always been against turkish being in the EU, not religion or anything else like that like the medias like to claim.
One has to wonder what will happen when the former soviet countries start to forget what oppression means too.
It's an appalling story and the behavior of the TSA is often reprehensible, but seriously -- this is not a fair comparison.
So yes, security guys don't know Hindu from Muslim or Indian from whatever, but it's well-known there is a heightened alert right now, US embassies all over the middle-east and Africa are closed out of security fears, and this guy fit a crude profile AND did something slightly unusual (opted out of a security measure) AND triggered a gas chromatograph AND probably fired off several behavioral red flags. Sucks but it's just Bad Luck.
> I can't even imagine being held captive without arrest for hours, being questioned about the purpose of my trip, about my religion and habits, all while travelling within my country
I also grew in an Eastern European country (Romania), and I remember thinking about those poor Soviet citizens who needed passports to travel inside the USSR. It all seemed very surreal, having to have special approval from your government in order to travel inside your own country.
Everything about this story, right down to the questions, agents involved, luggage inspections and the man's apartment being broken into and searched, fits very well with my own experiences in 2012 with entering the United States. I'm a recent Lebanese immigrant to Canada, male, in my early twenties, and to top it off I work on encryption software. I imagine the only worse thing I could be is an Iranian nuclear scientist.
I was asked questions ranging from whether I am affiliated with Hezbollah to why I was developing encryption software (and one time there was even a technician who asked me about its technical aspects), and specifically detained for questioning more times than I can count.
I was never refused entry, but I just wanted to attest that this man's story is completely credible to me, right down to the fine details he describes.
Possibly an interesting side-story for HN folks: By astronomical coincidence, I bumped into David Petraeus at a strange social event in D.C., after being harassed at the border every single time, and told him conversationally, casually, about my background and what I work on, just to see how he would react, if his reaction would line up with the knee-jerk reaction at the border. He smiled, raised a glass of champagne, and said, "cheers."
Most striking and appalling is the lack of common sense and basic empathy throughout this whole ordeal. For example, he asked multiple times for water, a basic necessity for life, and was denied multiple times. That can't be rationalized in anyway—what did they expect, him to drown someone? His requests as to the nature of his detention were denied. His rights to privacy were utterly ignored. And it goes on…
We need to wake up and see that those that "protect" our safety have reduced us to a state of fear worse than that which we are trying to prevent. We are now being terrorized by our own terrorism prevention. Merely because we happened to clean for bed-bugs and look Middle Eastern.
When will we say enough is enough and do something about it?
The most popular argument against the TSA that I have heard? They spend too much of their time searching the "wrong people". You know the kind that wouldn't "hurt a fly"? Weasel phrases that in essence mean that the TSA should do what Israel does. Racial profiling. Not that they don't do enough of it. At least on paper, they try to mess up that by searching white grandmas from the midwest and little blonde girls. Of course, the latter is what America complains the most about really.
> When will we say enough is enough and do something about it?
Sadly, much later than most people think. Look at how long things have gone on in history, before people realized how bad it really was. In hindsight, it's easy, but when everyone just seems to be accepting it, it's not so easy. E.g. Germany in the 1930s.
This is a manifestation of the US institutionalized xenophobia.
Good manners and taste should keep me from using this submission as another soapbox against how the US views foreigners, but when you see foreigners as enemies, a citizen who looks or acts vaguely "foreign"— I can't offer a precise definition of what "looking foreign" entails, but it's a combination of being a part of a small demographic group, and being a part of an ethnicity that is regularly caricatured in the media and in public discourse—will be treated with the same respect and care dispensed to a real foreigner.
This makes me so angry. This was one of the reasons I got out of consulting. Every fucking time, I would get an enhanced check. Surprisingly enough, it is nothing new. This is something you face if you are a minority. Hell, I remember a friend from back in Africa whose dad got blacklisted in the nineties because he had a beard. Brown catholic guy with a beard got blacklisted. The only difference now is that at least this guy is articulate enough to vocalize organized discrimination.
If I were a consultant today, I'd look into buying an RV. No more dirty hotel rooms or questionable restaurant food. And a much lower chance of a TSA encounter.
Do not try to talk your way out of anything. And you do NOT have to and should not answer any questions from law enforcement or the TSA. Ask repeatedly: Am I being detained? Am I free to go?
Cops can ask for ID (which you do have to provide, sadly) and can briefly frisk you to look for weapons -- if they have reasonable suspicion to believe a crime has or is about to happen.
One other thing of note and what makes this situation a bit odd is that once you get into a TSA line (basically past the first TSA person), you legally have to complete it. But the TSA is not law enforcement and they cannot detain you.
This is different for foreign nationals trying to enter the country (you can be turned away), but U.S. citizens have a right of return (though you can get held for a long time if they make up some reason to suspect you for simply refusing to answer questions.)
And the OP ought to file a complaint with TSA and FOIA the incident report. He should also talk to CCR about a possible lawsuit. Being detained for 18 hours without food or water is dangerous and illegal.
Also fuck JetBlue. Remember they voluntarily turned over their entire customer database to the feds in 2002 to help with datamining. Sounds to me like JetBlue also violated common carriage rules. A captain can refuse to transport a passenger for any reason, but an airline cannot.
> Do not try to talk your way out of anything. And you do NOT have to and should not answer any questions from law enforcement or the TSA. Ask repeatedly: Am I being detained? Am I free to go?
Unfortunately, this is a pipe dream. At that point, they can do whatever they want to you. Legally? Probably not. But they can still do it, because there is simply nothing you can do except try to fight or escape physically (which won't work). There's no cops to call, no lawyers to call, absolutely nothing you can do. Unless you value your principles more than your time, or even your safety/life, you will compromise those principles to placate your captors.
This is pretty harrowing to read. I've been fortunate enough to never go through any of this (but I don't _look_ like a 'terrorist'). I think America needs to take a hard look at itself and the compromises it has made on civil liberties in the name of this supposed 'safety' that we have now.
So my brother is a doctor. He told me a story about one of his colleagues, also a doctor, one of the smartest doctors my brother knows (which is no light praise), who happens to be a brown colored Muslim. My brother's brown colored Muslim doctor colleague tells him that it is increasingly humiliating to be constantly harassed by TSA when traveling and that he is thinking of leaving the country. My brother follows up by telling me that one day someone is going to need this brilliant, brown colored Muslim doctor and when that day comes the brilliant doctor may not be here.
The bottom line is that we need to ask ourselves what kind of environment are we creating for the country, it's citizens and it's visitors. At some point very smart people, who happen to be non-white, are going to realize that they would rather be somewhere else and we will be the lesser for it.
Last week I flew into SFO from Paris. I was called out at the Paris airport with another person (of Muslim origin). The person at the counter started asking me a few questions, and then asked me if we're colleagues. I said we weren't, and that I don't know the guy. He let me go after that, but I was then flagged for security at every single checkpoint after that.
I was pulled for a bag check after scanning my boarding pass. In SFO I was flagged for 'secondary screening' during immigration. The immigration officer took me in a room and basically asked me to give details on pretty much my entire life and activities for the past year. After I got out of there, I was then flagged at the customs, where the officer rummaged through all my bags.
I'm terrified now that this will become a regular thing, and that was only because I was accidentally associated with a young Muslim male. I now understand what they must be going through pretty much every single time they fly.
It really seems like "Flying While Brown" is this century's "Driving While Black". These and similar stories are shocking and demeaning all involved.
Since the OP is here, and it wasn't totally clear in the story, I'm just wondering: if and when did you point out you were a Hindu not a Muslim†, and whether doing so and possibly additionally pointing out the historical enmity between those two groups might have helped or hindered.
And it seems minor amongst everything else, but them making jokes about your credit card in that situation really pisses me off. Its adding insult to injury. However, it seems to me that people make jokes when they are uncomfortable. That guard probably was uncomfortable with that he was doing, and if he was, maybe he should complain to their bosses, stop doing their job in that way and/or quit.
† Lest anyone get the wrong idea, I do not condone this intimidating, brown-shirted bullshit for anyone; I'm just wondering if it is possible to get away from being pigeon-holed.
>In all my life, I have only felt that same chilling terror once before - on one cold night in September twelve years ago, when I huddled in bed and tried to forget the terrible events in the news that day, wondering why they they had happened, wondering whether everything would be okay ever again.
Perhaps the terrorists knew this would happen all along. They knew our paranoia would surpass any efforts they could ever hope accomplish. Instead of terrorizing a few thousand, they could terrorize a whole nation—daily and officially.
I found that sentence to be a non sequitur, illogically and gratuitously tacked on as an appeal to sentiment over rationality, and absolute bit of overwritten purple prose.
The last part really got me thinking, when the author mentioned that his apartment was probably searched by some agency. He would obviously have noted if he had received some sort of notification that his apartment had been legally searched.
Is it legal for the police, the DHS, FBI or any other agency to search your apartment and belongings without notifying you? Are there warrants that will let the authorities do this? What are the circumstances which allow them to do this?
I am not a lawyer, but this is how I understand it: Hypothetically if they had issued a FISA warrant to the landlord, then the landlord could have let them search the apartment and additionally would not be legally allowed to inform his tenet that a warrant had been issued [1], must less that his apartment had been searched.
How often does this happen and not get blogged about? If you want to help stop this from happening again, I suggest donating to the ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/donate/join-renew-give
I didn't want to relive the experience - I wanted to forget about it, but a friend of mine convinced me that I needed to let people know that these things happen, for that exact reason. That's why I wrote it.
The ACLU has abandoned any pretense of actually being concerned about civil liberties in favor of being a generic left-wing advocacy organization. For example, just recently they were perfectly happy to throw out a commitment against double jeopardy in order to stoke some standard left-wing racial grievances[1].
I used to think if you donated to both the ACLU and the NRA you could cover all your civil liberties pretty well, but I don't think the amount of good coming out of the ACLU is worth it anymore. At least the EFF is still pretty good, even if airports are a bit out of their domain.
To me one of the more troubling aspects of this is that in 2013 and after 12 years, the specialists we have fighting this "war" still have trouble distinguishing between Hindu & Muslim (though obviously Muslims should not be treated like this either). It might be easier for me b/c I'm Hindu but just looking at a name is usually enough to at least get past that part.
I'm Canadian, Indian heritage, and I practice Hinduism. Based on Aditya's article, I feel like we're probably similar with respect to our "religiousness".
What happened to him is horrendous, and scary. I'm currently living in Palo Alto for work, but every time I travel to and from the USA, I'm always in fear. That said, I have never had an issue; mind you, I've never made the explosives detector beep. I always elect for the pat down too.
While the TSA employees aren't always the friendliest, I haven't had any memorable run-ins with them. On the contrary, they've been actually nice at times. It helps that I always travel clean shaven, and speak to everyone as politely as any Canadian can. :-)
As a counterpoint, the only instance of racial profiling that I encountered while flying was actually in Sault Ste. Marie, ON, Canada. I was traveling with some colleagues back to Toronto; they were Caucasian, and I was the only non-Caucasian. The security agent at the airport decided to "randomly" select me for explosives screening. She was the lone agent, and it's a tiny airport. No one before or after me was "randomly" screened. No one else was non-Caucasian.
I'm not saying that security agents should be fearful of choosing a non-Caucasian for random screening, lest they be accused of profiling or racism. I'm saying that random screenings should actually be random. Also, I can't verify this hypothesis myself since I sucked at probability theory, but I'm pretty sure that only selecting 1 person out of 250+ passengers traveling through the airport is an insufficient sample size for actually detecting a person who may be carrying explosives; you should probably be randomly selecting more people.
That's interesting, because every Canadian airport that I've been to (and admittedly I've been mainly to the larger ones) has had an electronic mat that you stand on that lights up a sign with an arrow to the left or right, telling you whether you should go to the standard metal detectors or the millimeter wave scanners (or a patdown if you so choose). The idea presumably being that when a machine is choosing, it leaves no room for profiling. I've never seen those in any American airport I've been to.
i was detained by airport security in SFO upon arrival for two hours without setting off any alarms. Security kept asking me questions, disappearing into a room, then coming back asking me the same questions. They basically took the phone number of my entire contact list and told me they were calling them.
After i saw them take a few trips to that room, i started suspecting that they are watching me from somewhere and trying to analyze my behavior. i don't know why that idea came to me, but i realized i was extremely nervous and sweating. So i decided to bluff that i am pissed and this is outrageous.
When the security guys came back i started bluffing a bad mood. i turned the table by asking them questions instead. "is there something wrong?", "people are waiting for me outside" were some things i started saying. One security guy asked me to calm down but i kept on bluffing, i told them my flight was twenty one hours long non stop and that they are wasting more of my time. at this point i wasn't bluffing anymore i got really upset.
They disappeared one last time, i started huffing and puffing, and looking for the cameras that were watching me since i was convinced that was the case. When security came back, they simply told me you're good to go. They jokingly asked if i'd rather stay there. i said yes. They both raised their eyebrows and looked at me surprised as if they were about to interrogate me again. Then i jokingly said, i'd love to stay and watch all these hostesses passing by, at that point there was a team of hostesses passing by and we all laughed. They told me that this helps them endure their night shifts!
But the funny part was when i reached home, and started calling my relatives whom the security officers said they are calling. My relatives all said that they received no call, and told me of course those guys always bluff. I don't think i can take security seriously after that incident ever.
Police includes any federal agents, border patrol, CBP, et c.
Do not talk to the police. You cannot talk your way out of being arrested or explain your way on to a flight. They record everything and even an accidental misstatement is a felony.
You gave them address history, work configurations, business associate information... why? Did you somehow think you could talk them out of being afraid? This sort of breach of privacy (volunteering private corporate information to cops) is a firing offense in my book.
Umm, you definitely can explain your way on to a flight.
When a TSA agent asks if they can search your bag, saying "yes" has always lead to me catching my flight, and I'm pretty sure saying "Let me talk to my lawyer" would lead to me missing my flight. Also when they asked if there was any reason you might have set off the bomb detectors, answering with a valid reason can definitely lead to you catching your flight.
However, as soon as its clear you're going to miss your flight, I would agree its the time to stop talking.
That's awful. I'm half-Mexican and look like a really tan Jewish man and the treatment I received in the wake of 9/11 (having also been the first time I decided to grow a beard) was awful. I had to show two forms of ID to deposit money and the bank for some reason was rude and ended up refusing to let me deposit my paycheck, several people threatened to beat me up and chased me out of stores, and I wasn't able to make it through security at the airport without a "random" patdown until last year. I'm not even Middle-Eastern, I just KIND OF look it. I can only imagine what others go through.
[+] [-] jwr|12 years ago|reply
As I read more and more of those stories I can't help but wonder at how things changed. I am from a formerly-eastern-europe-soviet-bloc country (Poland) and these kinds of oppressive techniques sound very familiar. The haziness of procedures, lack of basic rights, intimidation, no accountability of state officials -- we've seen all that until 1989. At the time, while the communist regime was imposed on us, the USA seemed like heaven: transparency, procedures, basic rights, free speech, accountable officials.
Look at where we are today. I can't even imagine being held captive without arrest for hours, being questioned about the purpose of my trip, about my religion and habits, all while travelling within my country. When entering the country, the passport clerk has exactly two options: let me in, or call the police and get me arrested on the spot. I feel free and I am happy to live in a free country, together with people who because of the past oppressive Soviet regime are quite sensitive to abuses of power.
At the same time, the U.S. is rapidly degenerating into something that isn't quite the sinister oppressive regime, but getting close to the point where it could become one, if a wrong leader gets elected. It's scary.
And the worst thing is -- American people got so used to the idea of living in a free country, that they do not even admit the thought that things are going the wrong way. Most people don't see the signs.
[+] [-] jrockway|12 years ago|reply
Nowhere in the Constitution does it say the government can't hamfistedly accuse you of a crime. All it says is that they have to charge you or let you go in 24 hours, give you a trial, and punish you in a consistent way. They did that here; they asked some questions and they let him go.
You can argue about the techniques; religious questions, not giving him water, but it's all a well-documented psychological game that they're trying to play. If they make the suspect mad, the suspect is more likely to start yelling hysterically without thinking, saving the taxpayer the cost of a long trial. It's worth a try, right? (I think the correct answer to any question is, "my lawyer will answer that. get me my lawyer.")
Anyway, I look at this like the lottery, but in reverse. Sometimes you lose the reverse lottery and a day of your life gets fucked up. But ultimately, life moves on and you have an interesting story. You can say that the government is an oppressive regime that is out to get you for your political views, or you can say you rolled the dice and lost.
Let me ask you this: say you want to check for guns and explosives before people get on an airplane. How do you do it?
[+] [-] nolok|12 years ago|reply
The number of small level scary stuff I have seen discarded because the EU told us "seriously, you can't do that" is crazy (did you know that until recently, you could be detained by the police with no lawyer for several hours in France ? The EU forced us to fix that [1]). That is the one and only reason I have always been against turkish being in the EU, not religion or anything else like that like the medias like to claim.
One has to wonder what will happen when the former soviet countries start to forget what oppression means too.
[1] http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garde_%C3%A0_vue_en_droit_fran%...
[+] [-] Tloewald|12 years ago|reply
So yes, security guys don't know Hindu from Muslim or Indian from whatever, but it's well-known there is a heightened alert right now, US embassies all over the middle-east and Africa are closed out of security fears, and this guy fit a crude profile AND did something slightly unusual (opted out of a security measure) AND triggered a gas chromatograph AND probably fired off several behavioral red flags. Sucks but it's just Bad Luck.
[+] [-] paganel|12 years ago|reply
I also grew in an Eastern European country (Romania), and I remember thinking about those poor Soviet citizens who needed passports to travel inside the USSR. It all seemed very surreal, having to have special approval from your government in order to travel inside your own country.
[+] [-] drhodes|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] magikarp|12 years ago|reply
I was asked questions ranging from whether I am affiliated with Hezbollah to why I was developing encryption software (and one time there was even a technician who asked me about its technical aspects), and specifically detained for questioning more times than I can count.
I was never refused entry, but I just wanted to attest that this man's story is completely credible to me, right down to the fine details he describes.
Possibly an interesting side-story for HN folks: By astronomical coincidence, I bumped into David Petraeus at a strange social event in D.C., after being harassed at the border every single time, and told him conversationally, casually, about my background and what I work on, just to see how he would react, if his reaction would line up with the knee-jerk reaction at the border. He smiled, raised a glass of champagne, and said, "cheers."
[+] [-] tlrobinson|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] javert|12 years ago|reply
I would like to think such a person would have no problem coming, but just wouldn't be allowed to go back.
[+] [-] ajb|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leke|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] msrpotus|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lukeqsee|12 years ago|reply
We need to wake up and see that those that "protect" our safety have reduced us to a state of fear worse than that which we are trying to prevent. We are now being terrorized by our own terrorism prevention. Merely because we happened to clean for bed-bugs and look Middle Eastern.
When will we say enough is enough and do something about it?
[+] [-] eshvk|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] clamprecht|12 years ago|reply
Sadly, much later than most people think. Look at how long things have gone on in history, before people realized how bad it really was. In hindsight, it's easy, but when everyone just seems to be accepting it, it's not so easy. E.g. Germany in the 1930s.
[+] [-] dictum|12 years ago|reply
Good manners and taste should keep me from using this submission as another soapbox against how the US views foreigners, but when you see foreigners as enemies, a citizen who looks or acts vaguely "foreign"— I can't offer a precise definition of what "looking foreign" entails, but it's a combination of being a part of a small demographic group, and being a part of an ethnicity that is regularly caricatured in the media and in public discourse—will be treated with the same respect and care dispensed to a real foreigner.
[+] [-] eshvk|12 years ago|reply
And Fuck Jet Blue while we are at it.
[+] [-] acchow|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wwweston|12 years ago|reply
http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2008/09/30/the-video-that-...
http://www.jessdugan.com/blog/13699650/JetBlue-stole-my-came...
[+] [-] chiph|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mundizzle|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] rsingel|12 years ago|reply
Cops can ask for ID (which you do have to provide, sadly) and can briefly frisk you to look for weapons -- if they have reasonable suspicion to believe a crime has or is about to happen.
One other thing of note and what makes this situation a bit odd is that once you get into a TSA line (basically past the first TSA person), you legally have to complete it. But the TSA is not law enforcement and they cannot detain you.
This is different for foreign nationals trying to enter the country (you can be turned away), but U.S. citizens have a right of return (though you can get held for a long time if they make up some reason to suspect you for simply refusing to answer questions.)
And the OP ought to file a complaint with TSA and FOIA the incident report. He should also talk to CCR about a possible lawsuit. Being detained for 18 hours without food or water is dangerous and illegal.
Also fuck JetBlue. Remember they voluntarily turned over their entire customer database to the feds in 2002 to help with datamining. Sounds to me like JetBlue also violated common carriage rules. A captain can refuse to transport a passenger for any reason, but an airline cannot.
[+] [-] baddox|12 years ago|reply
Unfortunately, this is a pipe dream. At that point, they can do whatever they want to you. Legally? Probably not. But they can still do it, because there is simply nothing you can do except try to fight or escape physically (which won't work). There's no cops to call, no lawyers to call, absolutely nothing you can do. Unless you value your principles more than your time, or even your safety/life, you will compromise those principles to placate your captors.
[+] [-] driverdan|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JeffL|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aneth5|12 years ago|reply
If you intened not to cooperate, you might as well not plan any plane travel.
[+] [-] SlyShy|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] siculars|12 years ago|reply
The bottom line is that we need to ask ourselves what kind of environment are we creating for the country, it's citizens and it's visitors. At some point very smart people, who happen to be non-white, are going to realize that they would rather be somewhere else and we will be the lesser for it.
[+] [-] mhartl|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sheri|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Robin_Message|12 years ago|reply
Since the OP is here, and it wasn't totally clear in the story, I'm just wondering: if and when did you point out you were a Hindu not a Muslim†, and whether doing so and possibly additionally pointing out the historical enmity between those two groups might have helped or hindered.
And it seems minor amongst everything else, but them making jokes about your credit card in that situation really pisses me off. Its adding insult to injury. However, it seems to me that people make jokes when they are uncomfortable. That guard probably was uncomfortable with that he was doing, and if he was, maybe he should complain to their bosses, stop doing their job in that way and/or quit.
† Lest anyone get the wrong idea, I do not condone this intimidating, brown-shirted bullshit for anyone; I'm just wondering if it is possible to get away from being pigeon-holed.
[+] [-] fsckin|12 years ago|reply
Wow... just wow.
[+] [-] lukeqsee|12 years ago|reply
It's brilliant and pathetic at the same time.
[+] [-] JackFr|12 years ago|reply
I found that sentence to be a non sequitur, illogically and gratuitously tacked on as an appeal to sentiment over rationality, and absolute bit of overwritten purple prose.
"Oh! The irony!"
[+] [-] marvin|12 years ago|reply
Is it legal for the police, the DHS, FBI or any other agency to search your apartment and belongings without notifying you? Are there warrants that will let the authorities do this? What are the circumstances which allow them to do this?
[+] [-] jazzyb|12 years ago|reply
1. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1861 see part (d) "Nondisclosure"
[+] [-] sethbannon|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chimeracoder|12 years ago|reply
I didn't want to relive the experience - I wanted to forget about it, but a friend of mine convinced me that I needed to let people know that these things happen, for that exact reason. That's why I wrote it.
[+] [-] acheron|12 years ago|reply
I used to think if you donated to both the ACLU and the NRA you could cover all your civil liberties pretty well, but I don't think the amount of good coming out of the ACLU is worth it anymore. At least the EFF is still pretty good, even if airports are a bit out of their domain.
[1] http://www.volokh.com/2013/07/18/correction-re-the-aclu-and-...
[+] [-] oinksoft|12 years ago|reply
Exactly. You do it because it's a secure, well-paying job; there's an infinite budget to keep bullies like you working.
[+] [-] mason240|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] htsh|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HorizonXP|12 years ago|reply
What happened to him is horrendous, and scary. I'm currently living in Palo Alto for work, but every time I travel to and from the USA, I'm always in fear. That said, I have never had an issue; mind you, I've never made the explosives detector beep. I always elect for the pat down too.
While the TSA employees aren't always the friendliest, I haven't had any memorable run-ins with them. On the contrary, they've been actually nice at times. It helps that I always travel clean shaven, and speak to everyone as politely as any Canadian can. :-)
As a counterpoint, the only instance of racial profiling that I encountered while flying was actually in Sault Ste. Marie, ON, Canada. I was traveling with some colleagues back to Toronto; they were Caucasian, and I was the only non-Caucasian. The security agent at the airport decided to "randomly" select me for explosives screening. She was the lone agent, and it's a tiny airport. No one before or after me was "randomly" screened. No one else was non-Caucasian.
I'm not saying that security agents should be fearful of choosing a non-Caucasian for random screening, lest they be accused of profiling or racism. I'm saying that random screenings should actually be random. Also, I can't verify this hypothesis myself since I sucked at probability theory, but I'm pretty sure that only selecting 1 person out of 250+ passengers traveling through the airport is an insufficient sample size for actually detecting a person who may be carrying explosives; you should probably be randomly selecting more people.
TL;DR - USA yay, Canada nay!
[+] [-] Kronopath|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moubarak|12 years ago|reply
After i saw them take a few trips to that room, i started suspecting that they are watching me from somewhere and trying to analyze my behavior. i don't know why that idea came to me, but i realized i was extremely nervous and sweating. So i decided to bluff that i am pissed and this is outrageous.
When the security guys came back i started bluffing a bad mood. i turned the table by asking them questions instead. "is there something wrong?", "people are waiting for me outside" were some things i started saying. One security guy asked me to calm down but i kept on bluffing, i told them my flight was twenty one hours long non stop and that they are wasting more of my time. at this point i wasn't bluffing anymore i got really upset.
They disappeared one last time, i started huffing and puffing, and looking for the cameras that were watching me since i was convinced that was the case. When security came back, they simply told me you're good to go. They jokingly asked if i'd rather stay there. i said yes. They both raised their eyebrows and looked at me surprised as if they were about to interrogate me again. Then i jokingly said, i'd love to stay and watch all these hostesses passing by, at that point there was a team of hostesses passing by and we all laughed. They told me that this helps them endure their night shifts!
But the funny part was when i reached home, and started calling my relatives whom the security officers said they are calling. My relatives all said that they received no call, and told me of course those guys always bluff. I don't think i can take security seriously after that incident ever.
[+] [-] sneak|12 years ago|reply
Do not talk to the police.
Do not talk to the police.
http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc
Police includes any federal agents, border patrol, CBP, et c.
Do not talk to the police. You cannot talk your way out of being arrested or explain your way on to a flight. They record everything and even an accidental misstatement is a felony.
You gave them address history, work configurations, business associate information... why? Did you somehow think you could talk them out of being afraid? This sort of breach of privacy (volunteering private corporate information to cops) is a firing offense in my book.
Do not talk to the police.
[+] [-] lightcatcher|12 years ago|reply
When a TSA agent asks if they can search your bag, saying "yes" has always lead to me catching my flight, and I'm pretty sure saying "Let me talk to my lawyer" would lead to me missing my flight. Also when they asked if there was any reason you might have set off the bomb detectors, answering with a valid reason can definitely lead to you catching your flight.
However, as soon as its clear you're going to miss your flight, I would agree its the time to stop talking.
[+] [-] dodyg|12 years ago|reply
They assume he was a Muslim and 'off course Muslims have problems following instructions from women'.
[+] [-] gutsy|12 years ago|reply