[cxx]

The main reason why Amsterdam isn't a startup hub, and won't be for some time, is really simple: money.

First of all compared to SV there is no easy access to capital. Want to raise 100k (an insignificant amount by SV standards)? Well you better get a good price for your kids in the black market because there's barely any VC to speak of and banks do not give money to anything more complicated than a clothing shop.

Next is housing. Amsterdam is one of the most beautiful cities in Europe, but it's also one of the most expensive ones. Living inside the city ring (what people typically understand when you talk about Amsterdam) is extremely expensive. A 50-sqm-one-bedroom appartment will easily cost you $1500 (over 1000€) and for the average person that means almost 50% of your netto salary. Go under that and you're not really living in Amsterdam proper but the newer, and much less desirable, outer boroughs.

Finally there's the issue with compensation. Amsterdam is plagued with yuppies in the finance/consulting/sales sectors for one reason: it's what pays. In consulting 60k is almost entry level, and I'm talking about middle of the road companies. A senior engineer, someone with more than 5-7 years of real experience, is lucky to break 55k and will never get a raise once there. Lack of talent you say? Go 120km to the southeast and you have access to fairly hardcore technical guys. If you need more you have Germany right next to it which also has lots of technical talent. There is no shortage of talent here, there is a shortage of pay and of interesting work. And let's not get into the highly unfavorable contracts offered, like mandatory non-compete agreements for up to two years and automatic ownership of everything you make in your own time with your own equipment.

In short, nothing will change unless there's more money flowing around.

[janjongboom]

Agree 100%. I basically see all really good engineers either flying out to SF or working from home while being employed by a SF company. Mainly because of the complete lack of appreciation (in hard cash) by companies here. I myself are working for Norwegian company from Amsterdam.

Something to add as well: failure is accepted in the Valley. It's part of the way to success. In the Netherlands you will get BURNED for life. First of all, failing the company and being stuck with personal debt? The only way to get rid of it is to go into 'schuldhulpverlening' (debt helping something), which will mean you will have to live of 30 euro's a week for three years and can't get any bank loans in the first five years after it. Second, an entrepreneur that went bankrupt will have a stain on himself forever, both with banks, as well as investors.

Then there is the complete difference in how investors work between the Valley and Netherlands. When my previous employer was raising money (the company was about 10 persons in size) the only way to get money out of Dutch investors was to replace the management team, whereas they eventually raised 5M in SF. No business plan or no experienced CEO? There is the door. Seed money? There are a few funds that provide it but it's hard to get around to it.

[vincentleeuwen]

"It's part of the way to success. In the Netherlands you will get BURNED for life."

Couldn't agree more.