StackOverflow took the place of news/dejanews for me. It's a first place to stop whenever I have trouble with just about any piece of software or writing software, usually the answer is right there on the first place in a fairly easy to digest form. Along with wikipedia and the Khan academy it is a fantastic resource.
Amazing it is only 5 years old, it feels like it has been around forever, I recall coming across it for the first time while still in Canada and thinking 'this is neat'. I never contributed which is really a miss on my part but I try to keep the number of accounts that I have to an absolute minimum and stackoverflow is plenty useful as it is today. I really should do some community service there one of these days, it is only fair.
Hard to imagine that even google could not rescue usenet (or rather, dejanews) from the spam and the trolls.
>> I never contributed which is really a miss on my part
I love StackOverflow. However, I think the worst part of Stack Overflow is how hard it is to contribute as a new member. You need to build up reputation points and they can be very hard to get. Questions get 'sniped', answers get deleted or buried, and very often when you help another new user out, they never return to the site to accept your answer. It's very frustrating to take the time to answer a question and not receive any feedback.
Wholeheartedly agree about the "feels like it has been around forever", which to me is the mark of a product which has changed the game. I simply can't recall what life was like before it. Conservatively speaking, I'm probably a good 2-3x as productive as I was pre SO.
Yes, usually the answer is right there on the first page and it says "Closed as not relevant" (but fortunately it's usually been answered with a helpful answer anyway).
Google obviously didn't even try; Even I could write a bayesian filter to eliminate 90% of the spam that shows up in their web interface, but apparently they didn't bother.
Interesting. I have an opposite view - for me it was easier to find answers before SO. One good example is when you need to get a library recommendation (which is quite a useful thing for a programmer). "SO is Q&A site and doesn't do library recommendations" (literal quote from someone who has closed such a question). The problem is that most of the programmers nowadays hang on SO, so other sites (where such questions would be allowed) have much less audience than they did pre-SO. Sure, I can disguise the question and hope that I will get library recommendations nevertheless, but that's an (ugly) hack.
There are countless other examples where well-researched, popular and in some way contributing questions were shot down because they are unfit for SO.
And as others have pointed out, most karma comes from answers to popular questions, which rewards generic questions which probably have tons of similar answers across the Internet. Domain specific answers however are less awarding.
I cope with that in my way. I ask the questions and treat fairly all who answer / comment, but I hold myself back when I see a question I know the answer to. Why would I answer and help SO? I really hope some alternative arises so I can share my knowledge there, but until then I will just try to survive with SO. And what "if all did that"? Well, I guess the alternative would come much sooner. I wouldn't be unhappy about it, far from it.
> Amazing it is only 5 years old, it feels like it has been around forever
Indeed, it seems like every programming question I input on Google gives me a (helpful) StackOverflow post. It and Wikipedia are probably my top two most common results on Google.
Yeah, usenet used to be the place where you could get any question answered (though often accompanied by a flamewar). I think I may have actually stopped using usenet around the time I started using Stackoverflow.
I find it to be an enormous productivity help too. Almost always it's the best hit from Google on any programming problem that I have.
The one thing I've noticed is I've switched from being a contributor to a consumer of information. I'm not sure if it's selfishness, or just that the easy questions have all been answered. I wonder if this is part of any larger trend.
It (StackOverflow) is still one of the places for me to get valuable information as well. I find Hackernews to be valuable in terms of news articles but StackOverflow in terms of finding out information that I need then and there (When troubleshooting servers, etc).
Why didn't usenet take off on the Internet? I was wondering the same thing.
The only complaint I have about Stack Overflow is when you're looking for a library or toolchain and want to get a feel for some of the pros and cons of each of the tech currently being used. I understand the argument of why these questions are killed. But I also have to think that there is value in these conversations.
I share that feeling, but I also have to restrain it in the face of the fact that Stack Overflow doesn't seem like it's about discussion, or at least not open-ended discussion. It's about getting expert answers to focused questions, not polling for data or asking opinions.
However, I really wish someone would build and maintain a "Stack Overflow" for open-ended discussion. It'd basically be a classic forum (in terms of content) but with a different layout.
I suspect that the Stack Overflow community would agree that there's value in those conversations. And they'd also assert that they belong somewhere else, since Stack Overflow questions are meant to have right answers.
It's worse than that, there's pretty much no effective way to use the site to learn about a topic. It's a very effective Q&A site but that's all it is; it was meant to be slightly more but has never managed to achieve that. I'd say there's a very big opportunity in there for anyone who wants to try to compete.
My complaint is that almost every web-related javascript question is answered with "jQuery". I didn't ask about jquery, I asked about javascript god damnit. I understand it's the right answer in many cases, but the full answer should be: "You can do it like this or much easier using library like jQuery".
I'm sure this won't get me any love, but I worked at Experts-Exchange at one point, and it's not the horrible place SO and Jeff Atwood have painted it as.
Spammy marketing tactics? Sure. Is SO better? Absolutely. But in the process of building SO, Jeff and company have basically trashed EE's name, and after seeing EE from the inside I'm one of the rare few who don't think EE is evil incorporated.
Stackoverflow is so good.. anytime it's not stackoverflow, I'm sooo disappointed. A feature that I miss on stackoverflow would be a way to still use it on "incorrect" questions. For instance, someone asks "What's the best Linux distribution?". Obviously, it will be flagged and closed because it will most likely create a debate rather than having a strong and unique "best" answer.
However, it would still be interesting to have another tab, say "Discussion", where people could shoot arguments and the best ones could still be upvoted. So, yes, there wouldn't be "one best answer", but it would still be fun to read the best answers.
StackOverflow is the website that changed my life the most. It's second only to Google Search. Google Maps is third. Facebook and Twitter could die tomorrow for all I care.
For me, Twitter is actually very usual tool for keeping up to date on industry news, blog posts, articles etc, I use it ONLY for work and not for personal stuff. Using TweetDeck, I find it invaluable (and I never thought I would before I started using it) since it let's be keep a watch on specific hashtags.
Completely agree with all the "feels like it's been around forever" sentiment. I was surprised to read this post and be reminded that it's only been five years!
One of the things if feels like people have overlooked in the comments is the power of gamification. I know it's kind of a passe buzzword these days, but StackOverflow really innovated: reputation not just for questions but for everything, badges, bonuses for everything from editing your answers a lot to sticking around for a year. When I started contributing, I was surprised at how "hooked" it felt. I know I should feel a bit ambivalent about this, but it's a big part of the secret sauce that's made it a really effective community.
As a new developer, stack overflow has been an invaluable resource. My boyfriend (who's been a developer for many years now) always tells me I don't know how nice I have it every time he sees me open stack overflow up to figure something out. "In my day... I had to walk to school in the snow, barefoot, uphill both ways..." But although I don't know from personal experience how much harder things were pre- stack overflow - I can certainly appreciate it! It's taken a lot of the headache out of learning for me and is a great safety net when I'm unsure.
A lot of people like to hate on Stack Overflow for closing questions and editing questions / answers, bit I really like it. It's much better than anything that came before.
Stackoverflow is my favorite example of how crappy I am at predicting things. When Joel announced it, I had 0 doubt that it will be a flop. I think 2 months later I visited it and it was completely clear to me that I was wrong. Rare case when I am super happy to be wrong. Happy Birthday!
StackOverflow remains not only my #1 resource, but the resource I give to people when tutoring them. I encourage using it not only as a helper for bugs, but also for questions like "how best to do X". The sooner they use StackOverflow for their programming issues, the sooner they start understanding what they're doing.
What really helped me out when I was first starting doing web development was that no matter the question, people had the same problem as me -- usually VERBATIM. I can't stress how nice it is to copy and paste something into Google and get back the answer.
On a final note, I encourage everyone to try to give back a little into StackOverflow. I've been going for about 2 years and have around 4 thousand reputation built up, mostly on Rails questions. But at the same time, I'm starting to notice that there are a lot of rookie answers (although this might be a Rails-specific issue)... and this is coming from someone who's still in college and not a full time web dev yet. If you're good, answer a few questions.
Stack overflow is great but I have mostly stopped trying to contribute to it because my questions or answers are often closed or whatever. Or some mod or someone just comes and insults me on the basis that they thought my question was stupid or not right somehow.
Congratulations to SO!! In addition to being a great resource for developers worldwide, I think the most powerful impact that it has made can be summed up by the following in the post:
"An incredible number of people jumped at the chance to help a stranger"
This. The idea that you are able to help someone across the world in a matter of seconds is incredible. In case of SO, it applies to programming and technology but imagine if we had other SOs that did the same for poverty, hunger, education and world peace. Just a thought!!
I don't like posting on SO because it doesn't matter how careful I am to word my questions I always get asked to "show your code". Even when I'm asking about general usage of an API or theory.
Usually I end up posting my code and these people disappear without answering my question.
People seem to be only interested in questions where they can spot missing semi colons and get some easy points.
I agree, a lot of the time your code would be too long and involved or too confidential to post.
So, what you need to do is boil your problem down to an essential few lines sufficient to make the bug happen or illustrate what you are trying to do. A lot of times, when you do that, you find your answer along the way.
Sometimes it can be difficult, however. E.g., you may have a race condition that shows up in your actual code but which you can't make happen in your short example. Then you just have to explain your question as best you can.
I appreciate Stack Overflow even more when I think about it in terms of a broader trend.
A paper published earlier this year showed that online comments can affect Americans' perceptions of science. In fact, the comments posted on science articles can persuade readers more than the articles themselves. [0]
This got me thinking: every year more people are turning to the Internet for advice about serious subjects — medical advice, technical advice, a basic understanding of science. This fact, combined with the findings about the persuasiveness of comments, suggests that comments are tied to a growing ethical responsibility.
In other words, if you manage a website that deals with, say, health care, science or technology, you have an ethical obligation to a) recognize the potential harm that can result from misinformation in comments; b) take action to minimize that harm and facilitate a productive dialogue.
This brings me to Stack Overflow, which has a responsibility to offer accurate, useful feedback about programming. The stakes can be high, considering that a malicious or misinformed user could easily convince others to execute harmful code.
I think Stack Overflow is an excellent example of how sites can use rewards systems to encourage positive feedback and punish (i.e. downvote) those who disseminate misinformation or off-topic questions. The feedback as a whole seems very focused and accurate.
I hope other sites that offer serious advice will become more aware of their responsibility to solicit accurate comments. Now that we know comments can seriously affect readers' perceptions, it seems that an anything-goes comment form can be unethical. Stack Overflow may be a great role model in this respect.
I've got over 15k rep on SO and I've found more and more difficult to make an impact on there. Questions have either been asked or are answered instantly. All the time I'm getting answers and questions closed down and deleted as mods are gardening. I don't know what the answer is but its grown to the point where I find it too much effort too much.
Having said all that I'm just glad that its there. I remember coding without the internet (and I don't just mean a router failure) and that had its own challenges but SO has got me answers typically with in minutes and now instantly as the Q. base has grown. It's an amazing resource. If they can work out how people can contribute easily again it will be here for years to come.
Besides all the bad things and malicious behaviour of the big players (yes, all of them) the internet has brought to us, there're still sites that have changed the world to a better place. Especially StackOverflow has contributed largely to increase the equaly of opportunities. Due to the lack of basic education and access to hardware and the internet not yet everybody, but a massivly increased number of people can become great developers. At some point you need help from the experienced. Books and online documentation don't help anymore, that's where SO comes into play. It made me a 2-3 times better developer and kept my spirit up when I couldn't solve a problem by myself.
[+] [-] jacquesm|12 years ago|reply
Amazing it is only 5 years old, it feels like it has been around forever, I recall coming across it for the first time while still in Canada and thinking 'this is neat'. I never contributed which is really a miss on my part but I try to keep the number of accounts that I have to an absolute minimum and stackoverflow is plenty useful as it is today. I really should do some community service there one of these days, it is only fair.
Hard to imagine that even google could not rescue usenet (or rather, dejanews) from the spam and the trolls.
[+] [-] bluedino|12 years ago|reply
I love StackOverflow. However, I think the worst part of Stack Overflow is how hard it is to contribute as a new member. You need to build up reputation points and they can be very hard to get. Questions get 'sniped', answers get deleted or buried, and very often when you help another new user out, they never return to the site to accept your answer. It's very frustrating to take the time to answer a question and not receive any feedback.
[+] [-] brandall10|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] siegecraft|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lukev|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] annnnd|12 years ago|reply
There are countless other examples where well-researched, popular and in some way contributing questions were shot down because they are unfit for SO.
And as others have pointed out, most karma comes from answers to popular questions, which rewards generic questions which probably have tons of similar answers across the Internet. Domain specific answers however are less awarding.
I cope with that in my way. I ask the questions and treat fairly all who answer / comment, but I hold myself back when I see a question I know the answer to. Why would I answer and help SO? I really hope some alternative arises so I can share my knowledge there, but until then I will just try to survive with SO. And what "if all did that"? Well, I guess the alternative would come much sooner. I wouldn't be unhappy about it, far from it.
[+] [-] lifeformed|12 years ago|reply
Indeed, it seems like every programming question I input on Google gives me a (helpful) StackOverflow post. It and Wikipedia are probably my top two most common results on Google.
[+] [-] mcv|12 years ago|reply
(Really only 5 years? Unbelievable.)
[+] [-] mathattack|12 years ago|reply
The one thing I've noticed is I've switched from being a contributor to a consumer of information. I'm not sure if it's selfishness, or just that the easy questions have all been answered. I wonder if this is part of any larger trend.
[+] [-] Kiro|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] polaris9000|12 years ago|reply
Why didn't usenet take off on the Internet? I was wondering the same thing.
[+] [-] darkchasma|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lelandbatey|12 years ago|reply
However, I really wish someone would build and maintain a "Stack Overflow" for open-ended discussion. It'd basically be a classic forum (in terms of content) but with a different layout.
[+] [-] StuieK|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matchu|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] InclinedPlane|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rplnt|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ianstallings|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andy_adams|12 years ago|reply
Spammy marketing tactics? Sure. Is SO better? Absolutely. But in the process of building SO, Jeff and company have basically trashed EE's name, and after seeing EE from the inside I'm one of the rare few who don't think EE is evil incorporated.
[+] [-] pixie_|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] d0m|12 years ago|reply
However, it would still be interesting to have another tab, say "Discussion", where people could shoot arguments and the best ones could still be upvoted. So, yes, there wouldn't be "one best answer", but it would still be fun to read the best answers.
[+] [-] scotty79|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kamjam|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nohuck13|12 years ago|reply
One of the things if feels like people have overlooked in the comments is the power of gamification. I know it's kind of a passe buzzword these days, but StackOverflow really innovated: reputation not just for questions but for everything, badges, bonuses for everything from editing your answers a lot to sticking around for a year. When I started contributing, I was surprised at how "hooked" it felt. I know I should feel a bit ambivalent about this, but it's a big part of the secret sauce that's made it a really effective community.
[+] [-] joelle|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] FigBug|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edraferi|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kentbrew|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nostrademons|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ck2|12 years ago|reply
http://stackexchange.com/sites?view=grid
[+] [-] staunch|12 years ago|reply
I had the opposite reaction, that it has not grown outside of its original niche at all.
[+] [-] Fuzzwah|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ggpurehope|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] meshko|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dylandrop|12 years ago|reply
What really helped me out when I was first starting doing web development was that no matter the question, people had the same problem as me -- usually VERBATIM. I can't stress how nice it is to copy and paste something into Google and get back the answer.
On a final note, I encourage everyone to try to give back a little into StackOverflow. I've been going for about 2 years and have around 4 thousand reputation built up, mostly on Rails questions. But at the same time, I'm starting to notice that there are a lot of rookie answers (although this might be a Rails-specific issue)... and this is coming from someone who's still in college and not a full time web dev yet. If you're good, answer a few questions.
[+] [-] ilaksh|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] conradfr|12 years ago|reply
I remember at first I was confusing it with Experts-exchange and would avoid clicking to it from Google's results.
[+] [-] codegeek|12 years ago|reply
"An incredible number of people jumped at the chance to help a stranger"
This. The idea that you are able to help someone across the world in a matter of seconds is incredible. In case of SO, it applies to programming and technology but imagine if we had other SOs that did the same for poverty, hunger, education and world peace. Just a thought!!
[+] [-] lyndonh|12 years ago|reply
Usually I end up posting my code and these people disappear without answering my question.
People seem to be only interested in questions where they can spot missing semi colons and get some easy points.
[+] [-] cynwoody|12 years ago|reply
So, what you need to do is boil your problem down to an essential few lines sufficient to make the bug happen or illustrate what you are trying to do. A lot of times, when you do that, you find your answer along the way.
Sometimes it can be difficult, however. E.g., you may have a race condition that shows up in your actual code but which you can't make happen in your short example. Then you just have to explain your question as best you can.
[+] [-] hawkharris|12 years ago|reply
A paper published earlier this year showed that online comments can affect Americans' perceptions of science. In fact, the comments posted on science articles can persuade readers more than the articles themselves. [0]
This got me thinking: every year more people are turning to the Internet for advice about serious subjects — medical advice, technical advice, a basic understanding of science. This fact, combined with the findings about the persuasiveness of comments, suggests that comments are tied to a growing ethical responsibility.
In other words, if you manage a website that deals with, say, health care, science or technology, you have an ethical obligation to a) recognize the potential harm that can result from misinformation in comments; b) take action to minimize that harm and facilitate a productive dialogue.
This brings me to Stack Overflow, which has a responsibility to offer accurate, useful feedback about programming. The stakes can be high, considering that a malicious or misinformed user could easily convince others to execute harmful code.
I think Stack Overflow is an excellent example of how sites can use rewards systems to encourage positive feedback and punish (i.e. downvote) those who disseminate misinformation or off-topic questions. The feedback as a whole seems very focused and accurate.
I hope other sites that offer serious advice will become more aware of their responsibility to solicit accurate comments. Now that we know comments can seriously affect readers' perceptions, it seems that an anything-goes comment form can be unethical. Stack Overflow may be a great role model in this respect.
[0]http://www.sciencemag.org/content/339/6115/40.summary
[+] [-] JayEnn|12 years ago|reply
Having said all that I'm just glad that its there. I remember coding without the internet (and I don't just mean a router failure) and that had its own challenges but SO has got me answers typically with in minutes and now instantly as the Q. base has grown. It's an amazing resource. If they can work out how people can contribute easily again it will be here for years to come.
[+] [-] soemarko|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Knacktus|12 years ago|reply