Hipster-hate strikes me as just another thinly veiled form of bullying, and it's interesting to see how readily internet nerds - the people who are disproportionately to have been bullied in the past - engage in it.
Look! He's different! Let's make assumptions about his motivations and get him!
It's also interesting to see how many times Reddit (and other communities) fly into a rage-fest because of lack of context, only to make an about-face when the full picture comes out. It's also interesting how no matter how many times this exact situation happens, there is no stopping the next rage-fest.
Above all other things, internet communities is what makes me cynical about humanity.
"The reaction, then, had nothing to do with hipsters. It was a hatred of people that need to stand out for standing-out's sake. That realization was at once positive and negative—people didn't hate me because I was a hipster, they hated me because I looked like I was nakedly desperate for attention, and had gone about that attention-grabbing by glomming on to marginalized trends."
I believe that statement would be true even without the "glomming" part. Societies seem to both love and hate attention seekers. We pour accolades on attention-seeking celebrities, but scowl at neighbors who buy flashy cars or ride a Penny-farthing (I had to look that up) seemingly only for the attention.
This is going to sound inflammatory but I basically consider anyone younger than around 25 to be functionally insane. They're in a period in their life where they seriously believe that they cannot spend the rest of their lives with someone who doesn't have the same taste in music as they do. You're busy cultivating a sense of identity, I get it. But more often than not you grow up and find yourself in love with someone who likes everything you used to hate and you find it endearing. It's not a bad thing and I try not to treat anyone differently because of it... but young people pick on each other for these sorts of things. That's pretty insane IMO.
Update I could probably justify this comment by making a point other than, "young whipper snappers be cray, yo."
Hipster hate has been around for years. I find that it comes from young, self-conscious people posturing and picking on other people based on the way they look, the music they like, and other trivial things. It's cruel to pick on other people for something so utterly trivial. There's nothing thinly veiled about it, IMO: it's just bullying and it seems to be a phenomenon I strongly attribute to young people.
Maybe that makes me an old, ignorant, ruddy-duddy but I seriously haven't really heard someone over the age of 30 or so make snarky remarks about how so-and-so is such a hipster douchebag. They'd get funny looks and people might think, "What is this, high school!?"
I think someone should make this a youtube video. Old people picking on other old people for liking obscure bands young people have never heard of in forty years. Calling them hipsters (a term that originated in the 50s beat movement, no?).
On top of it, geek culture is a hipster culture. Oh you listen to obscure geeky bands and wear comic/anime t-shirts all the time? You purposely disengage from mainstream society? You're overly critical of the status quo and only socialize with people exactly like you? Gee, that sounds like the guy you're criticizing.
This is really common, unfortunately. People who are raised being abused, or being excluded, are taught that those in power should abuse or exclude those not in power.
I found it interesting that the redditors - or, as some might say, the "straight white male neckbeards" of Reddit - quickly turned apologetic when they heard the full story, while the enlightened feminists at xoJane ignored the new facts and persisted in their vitriol.
I find it interesting how the word "hipster" has morphed in usage over the last five-or-so years. Originally, as far as I could tell, it had a specific meaning: "someone who prefers unknown bands just for their being unknown, and dislikes well-known bands just for their being well-known." This, obviously, is a person to not hold in high regard--their mannerism, after all, is entirely defined by contempt for the majority of humanity. ("As soon as everyone likes it, I hate it.")
Then an image and a lifestyle got attached to it--some mix of the effete New Yorker, the post-punk Seattlite, and the "urban woodsman" Portlander. And now it just refers to those things, and no longer really carries the requirement that the person so-labelled define themselves via contrarianism and contempt.
But language influences thought, people still remember the old meaning, and "slur it forward": seeing people who are hipsters-as-in-culture and assuming they're worthy of the same contempt given to hipsters-as-in-contemptuous-assholes.
it's interesting to see how readily internet nerds - the people who are disproportionately to have been bullied in the past - engage in it.
Nothing new there. This how pecking orders form in human society; people who are pushed around look for other people to push around, to feel better about themselves.
"Above all other things, internet communities is what makes me cynical about humanity."
The internet is like alcohol: it doesn't put ideas into people's heads. It just lowers their inhibitions. If people are being dicks on the internet, it's because they are dicks, and the internet gives them a relatively consequence-free forum for expressing their dickitude.
If we're "cynical about humanity" because of "internet communities," we should be "cynical about humanity" because of humanity, full stop.
I personally really like hipsters. They made tattoos non-scary. Before them, it was all bikers and sailors... many of them want to hurt me.
I'm sort of joking and sort of very serious.
I think hipsters, with their funny tight pants, single-speed bikes, and amusing attention to facial hair, have had a positive influence on society. The world needs people to be overly fixated on the mundane, or else we get too productive.
I personally am not cool in any way, nor do I aspire to indicate coolness through my physical appearance. I've got a wife, a kid, and a mortgage. I just can't spare the cycles trying to look cool.
It amazes me how so many commenters here can miss an essential point about hipsters and hipster-hate. Hipster-hate is more than bullying, it can be understood if we consider that socio-economic classes are at war with each other: in this understanding, hipsters are the ones that have crossed the trench lines. They're percieved as people who mostly come from a wealthy white background, from which they want to be independent, but which gives them a certain legacy and advantage over non-white poor people. This helps them colonize/gentrify poor neighborhoods, thus pushing the prices up and paving the way for the city to push it's poor further away. Not to mention the fact that they are easy targets from the traditional upper class who percieves them as "willfully bohemian". We have the same kind of hate here in France for our "bobos". Hipster hate has a material economic basis.
Given the most core of the criticisms of hipsterism are its judgementalism and superiority complex, your argument seems to be tantamount to decrying the bullying of bullies, or the lack of tolerance for the intolerant.
The strange thing about NYC is weird hipsters (and yes I'll call him that) are one of the things that make such a commerce driven city a livable place. They're behind random cool stuff in the park, most of the bars with really awesome beers, and a lot of the other quirks that makes a financial center liveable. Of course they just get bullied as a result...
"it's interesting to see how readily internet nerds - the people who are disproportionately to have been bullied in the past - engage in it."
My theory has been that the downtrodden are pissed because they're on the receiving end, not because it's wrong, evidenced by many examples of them engaging in the same behavior when the opportunity presents itself. Whether it's immigrant minorities or geeks/nerds, the pattern seems to come up time and again.
The whole situation would have been completely different if people waited for some context and explanation. Unfortunately pre-judging people based on quick first impressions is something pretty much everyone does. Some are just more vocal about it.
I quit browsing Reddit because of the comment sections.
> Above all other things, internet communities is what makes me cynical about humanity.
What makes an internet community any different from any "other" community? They are both human social constructs. The only difference I would argue is that online communities are much more public about their members' views. "Offline" communities can often hide under a veil of an organizational hierarchy of structure (usually in the form of a representative such as "head of").
While I agree with some of what you are saying and I don't join in hipster hate, I think this is the main thing:
Any self-righteous style that tries to come off as cool and aloof that seem ridiculous to others is going to be made fun of. It doesn't matter what it is. Portlandia makes fun of hipsters. Zoolander made fun of high fashion.
Be yourself first and foremost: type on an old typewriter in the park, wear RPGs even though you were never formerly in the military, drink double Doppios from non-chain coffee shops, and break up with a girl because she said PETA stood for People Eating Tasty Animals. But being made fun of comes with that game.
Reddit is visited by tens of millions of people of virtually every demographic. Corralling them as "internet nerds" seems a bit like you're trying for some bullying yourself.
In any case, talk about much ado about absolutely nothing. A bunch of people said silly things, largely under the assumption that it was no consequence (that no one was hurt, etc): In many ways the comments on there are performance art. It is the most astonishingly meaningless thing going, and really the purpose of this entry that we're discussing is the chap talking a moment to extend that fifteen minutes.
Above all other things, internet communities is what makes me cynical about humanity.
People declaring their cynicism about humanity (or trite variations like "faith restored") make me cynical about humanity.
Hipsterism itself is thinly-veiled bullying - it's essentially "I'm cool and you're not". It's like before Apple became really popular, some users exhibited a 'smug field', where they considered themselves better people for using this elite product, being part of those 'in the know', and were just better than you. I have an aunt who was like that, who would mock me for not using Apple... yet she couldn't articulate why. It was just 'better', and she'd backed it.
Hipsterism is like that, putting on airs without having the substance, and that annoys people.
Above all other things, internet communities is what makes me cynical about humanity.
Pre-internet communities were far from unicorns and rainbows. Conformity was much more strongly required.
The other funny thing is that there's a violent dislike of mainstream media on websites such as Reddit, and constant criticism when news stations take things out of context.
Then they do things like this themselves on a daily basis!
My wife and I had one of our wedding pictures take the number one spot on /r/all one day -- There was some rather embarrassing text super-imposed on it that said "Oh you think married women still give BJs" (google Condescending Wife to find it).
Despite some of the comments in the thread being pretty mean, my wife and I took it in stride, we're both internet people, we get it; we thought it was pretty funny all things considered --
The awkward part of all of this though, was this picture was EVERYWHERE for about a day. All over Facebook, Tumblr, etc. So countless friends and family inevitably saw it. I got a call from my concerned father, asking me if everything was ok and if I had seen what the internet had been saying about me and my wife. I explained to him that we didn't really mind and we left it there as explaining reddit to him would have been near impossible. But it was just a really surreal experience. We got dozens of texts and emails that day all asking if we had seen the picture.
The best part of the the internet's short term memory is how quickly this image found it's way into obscurity; to be completely forgotten. No ill harm to my wife's nor my reputation.
I shaved half of my hair and half of my beard so that I'd have an interesting driver's license, and posted the photos on Reddit. So I can't really complain about someone else appropriating my image. But it did get big in a way I didn't expect.
My mother found out when she went to yahoo.com to log into her email and I was on the front page. My father-in-law was watching the local news and saw me giving an interview. Two years later, I can bring out my driver's license at parties and people remember it. But they don't remember me, just the photo, so no harm done. (And happily, my domain has enough precidence on google to at least appear first for searches of my name).
On the upside, if I ever meet Greg Proops or Ellen DeGeneres in person we'll have something in common to talk about.
A few months ago someone posted a photo of a young lady sporting facial hair. Predictably the reddit hivemind were pointing and laughing until the lady in question saw her photo was plastered online and decided to reply to the OP, explaining she was a Sikh and her beliefs dictated that her hair was sacred (I think)
The OP grovelled and apologised for posting the photo without her permission, but still, I think that was one of reddits lowest points
The nice thing about memes though is it rarely has anything to do with the people in the photo, and more about what kind of universal message the photo can convey. I believe the scumbag steve guy discusses this since he went through a lot of emotions over his photo being so popular. Nobody who makes these memes is thinking of him personally, but rather of the character that can be extracted from the photo.
The website she referred to had a series of essays they dubbed “It Happened To Me” that they sprinkled in amongst feminist-leaning news and features. “I want to talk about how all of this makes me feel. You, all over the Internet, right after you dumped me.”
Does that seem bizarrely self absorbed to anyone else?
It seems like the hipster-as-a-pejorative thing started around the total collapse of the music industry in the mid-2000's and unfortunately was driven by indie scenesters who resented the influx of popularity when say, Modest Mouse had a song appear on say, One Tree Hill. The primary aesthetic religion of the indie scene from punk onward, no matter what the genre or style, was D.I.Y. so suburbanites who went to Hot Topic to grab Iron Maiden t-shirts were profoundly reviled.
This happens in any insular subculture. Do I even need to mention the "geek girl" bullshit?
The problem has quickly become that this revulsion has also played into the jock-centric bullying of anyone who dares to be different--"my football coach won't let me grow my hair long so now let me go punch that faggot with the plastic frames" sort of crap. Any indie community that still exists needs to rid itself of all this baggage for that reason alone.
Whatever utility the word "hipster" had as a pejorative, if any, is gone. Internet killed pop culture and it's dead to stay. The most popular cartoon character now is effing Grumpy Cat. Anyone should consider anyone else using "hipster" as an offhand pejorative to be no greater than a classroom bully, no different than calling someone a dweeb in the 1980s.
>Do I even need to mention the "geek girl" bullshit?
The thing is, the 'geek girl' stereotype is something that almost never happens, but as far as I understand it the stereotypical hipster is not uncommon.
It is possible to 'like' something the wrong way: namely where you do not actually like it. Hipster hate isn't about being different, it's about a perception of dishonest attention-seeking.
NEWSFLASH: If you're doing something specifically to get attention, it's possible the attention you get might not be to your liking.
(Though I agree people should be more open to people doing fun performance-ish stuff like this, it does not mean a performer is entitled to receive only positive reactions.)
I have the utmost respect for anyone that can take their natural (legal) talent, go to a park and turn it into beer/food money in an hour or two. When I met my wife she was substitute teaching occasionally and to make ends meet she would do pencil portraits in the park. She would always wear a floppy hat and a colorful long skirt. Back then (1975) she would have been referred to as a hippy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie :-) as opposed to a hipster. I remember sitting in her apartment and watching her gleefully straighten and count a pile of small bills. Great times!
Tangentially related, things like this are why I have not stopped wearing my fedora (in appropriate situations, with appropriate outfits).
Dear Internet Fashionistas: You've decided that fedoras and suspenders are the mark of a horrible person. Your opinions have no connection to reality. Over here in the real world, I look good. When I come back to the bar the next day to pick up my credit card, and the bouncer remembers me well enough to compliment my outfit from the previous night, that means I'm doing it right.
Related to his original idea: I think it's simply fantastic. Not only does it help avoid writers block (You constantly have a stream of stories to create), but it's forced practice. Nobody says Mozart's first few works were brilliant. It wasn't until he practiced for years that he became a virtuoso. An approach like this, while easy to view from the lens of simply making people happy, is an investment in one's creativity and writing skill that will pay off in leaps and bounds years down the line.
It's just so unfortunate that the internet makes it so hard. You're either loved, hated, or ignored. He, thanks to an unlucky picture angle and loss of context, fell into the 'hated' category by many. I applaud the effort to just do it. It is funny how many view the real world as hard and the internet as an easy escape, yet in his experience, it was just the opposite.
Cyber bullying kills kids. That's one thing to remember about all this. If he had been a shaky, insecure, frightened teen, this kind of treatment can push mild depression into thoughts of suicide. And many adults are also vulnerable to this kind of abuse. If you see this happening to anyone, please, step up and defend them.
Well, being ridiculed by people in Reddit is something honorable. Who cares what they think about you?
Don't lose your time with these people. Take a video camera and explain what you do for people in the internet, youtube and vimeo...
Better, you could create a cool kickstarter project in which by the way, you explain better what you do.
Never forget that being able to tell stories is one of the most important abilities humans have, since hunters met at fire in the dark of the ancient night.
Now FOCUS ON FEELING THE LOVE, not the pain. In my business the customer support people used to ignore thousands of satisfied customers letters to focus in the couple of crazy ones.
Don't dedicate neurons to them, don't think yourself the object of Internet ridicule, because we see only validation. Find yourself as the object of respect and love. You have my respect and validation and lots of other people's too. Search for it and you will find it.
>Thinking about her own troubles in creating something viral, she remarked, “It’s too bad you can’t figure out a way to exploit this somehow.” Other than sometimes posting my Twitter handle on pages where I saw the picture, I couldn’t do much.
Since this is hackernews, it would be interesting to discuss this portion. What would be the best way to use this to propel oneself into success? It seems he was granted a strong brand for free. Mostly negative, but also with some positives. My idea would be to try to be even more hipstery, to really validate peoples impressions, and then try to sell things associated with hipsters: Second hand stuff. Organic, fair trade, hand made clothing. Maybe try to appear in a commercial for glasses.
I don't know much about marketing so sorry if this is completely wrong. Just wanted to put some ideas out there to start a discussion.
I'm not claiming to have much fashion sense, but how is wearing giant plastic glasses "sincerity"? Is it about self-expression? What sentiment do huge glasses express?
The reaction, then, had nothing to do with hipsters... they hated me because I looked like I was nakedly desperate for attention, and had gone about that attention-grabbing by glomming on to marginalized trends.
I thought that was the whole reason people didn't like hipsters. Now I'm confused.
Kind of recently, a close friend of mine took a picture of him and his wife explaining something to their dog:
http://i.imgur.com/bfpOGYK.jpg
They're the sweetest, coolest, most open-minded people and I adore them. They're not trying to act like they're better or more stylish than anyone else, but the level of "hipster hate" they got in the thread was just intense.
I keep saying it, taking photos of random people out in public not hurting anyone for the intention of posting online and ridicule is one of the most vulgar, inconsiderate modern phenomenons that seems to be socially acceptable.
Its the ugly, non creative side of accessibility in modern technology that hurts people sometimes significantly. If someone did it to me, I would probably be very hurt. "Look at this super ugly fat guy on my bus!" That ugly fat guy might of just mustered enough courage over the last week to step outside and as a result he gets ambushed in a hurtful demeaning way. It's not just the post, imagine going outside and noticing people slyly trying to snap pictures of you, how would you feel?
These sorts of posts are often veiled behind a thin curtain of pathetic vacuous wit. People need to call this sort of behaviour out more.
Having been on Reddit for more than 6 years, what always blows me away are these "lessons". Sure, everyone backpedals a bit and thinks, "gee, he's not the douchebag hipster we thought and we acted like assholes" but it happens over, and over and over.
As others have also mentioned in here, I'm always amazed that those most prone to being bullied seem more than okay taking on the role of bully online with zero context.
I, myself, would have started, and stopped, with the last sentence:
I prefer to let these little cesspools of cyberspace fester and then stagnate, forgotten as they should be, secure in the knowledge that I am doing something that matters to me.
As reddit is nothing other than a festering cesspool of cyberspace.
Hipster hatred really baffles me. The only thing I've come up with is that hipsters generally are people who actually are trying to live by their liberal ideals of anti-consumerism. Yes they are into fashion as is everyone else, that doesn't make them hypocrites.
People hate them because they make them feel bad by generally doing things most people are too lazy to do themselves, not because they go around telling everyone they are crappy or acting holier than thou. The act of recycling old clothing is what offends people, not hipsters talking about it.
You know what is holier than thou? "Hipsters are hypocritical scum". I've never been told anything like that by someone who is a hipster (except my radical feminist lesbian sister-in-law and it isn't because she's a hipster)
There were a whopping 229 comments in his thread where he was ridiculed by the "internet". Star wars kid he is not. Hell, there are more comments in this thread.
HIPSTERS ARE A MADE UP GROUP - POSSIBLY BY THE GOVERNMENT AND MI-5!!!
Sorry for the crazy-person all-caps, but this thing really crunches my Funyuns. Hipsters are a totally made-up label to brand people with that are into different shit. Would we have called Dylan a hipster (in the derogatory sense, not the beatnik sense)? What about Steve Jobs in the early days? Shoot, even Woz wore some pretty ironic bow-ties (definite hipster).
What's also a gas is that all these "hipster bashers" are so heck-darn defensive of mainstream culture. We all acknowledge that Walmart is a shithole. We all agree McDonalds is feeding garbage into our souls. So why are people so darn defensive about people who are trying to explore different things.
The "hipster" label is a sickeningly old cliche. Seriously. So-called "hipster-bashing" has been going on for 10 years now (it all started with 'the hipster handbook'. I've never really got it either. I mean, people don't actively go out and go "right, I'm going to be a hipster". Like the amazing roaming typist, these people are just interested in different things.
In my opinion, these "hipster bashers" are people that are just so obviously insecure about their own lives. Why bash others, just because you can't step out of your box.
Then again - maybe the definition of a hipster is someone who does actively embrace the attributes of this made-up subculture to form an identity - without understanding the depths of what they are appropriating. I must say, I have not met anyone like this. Hence, why I think hipsters don't exist.
[+] [-] potatolicious|12 years ago|reply
Look! He's different! Let's make assumptions about his motivations and get him!
It's also interesting to see how many times Reddit (and other communities) fly into a rage-fest because of lack of context, only to make an about-face when the full picture comes out. It's also interesting how no matter how many times this exact situation happens, there is no stopping the next rage-fest.
Above all other things, internet communities is what makes me cynical about humanity.
[+] [-] josefresco|12 years ago|reply
"The reaction, then, had nothing to do with hipsters. It was a hatred of people that need to stand out for standing-out's sake. That realization was at once positive and negative—people didn't hate me because I was a hipster, they hated me because I looked like I was nakedly desperate for attention, and had gone about that attention-grabbing by glomming on to marginalized trends."
I believe that statement would be true even without the "glomming" part. Societies seem to both love and hate attention seekers. We pour accolades on attention-seeking celebrities, but scowl at neighbors who buy flashy cars or ride a Penny-farthing (I had to look that up) seemingly only for the attention.
[+] [-] agentultra|12 years ago|reply
Update I could probably justify this comment by making a point other than, "young whipper snappers be cray, yo."
Hipster hate has been around for years. I find that it comes from young, self-conscious people posturing and picking on other people based on the way they look, the music they like, and other trivial things. It's cruel to pick on other people for something so utterly trivial. There's nothing thinly veiled about it, IMO: it's just bullying and it seems to be a phenomenon I strongly attribute to young people.
Maybe that makes me an old, ignorant, ruddy-duddy but I seriously haven't really heard someone over the age of 30 or so make snarky remarks about how so-and-so is such a hipster douchebag. They'd get funny looks and people might think, "What is this, high school!?"
I think someone should make this a youtube video. Old people picking on other old people for liking obscure bands young people have never heard of in forty years. Calling them hipsters (a term that originated in the 50s beat movement, no?).
[+] [-] drzaiusapelord|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blhack|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Camillo|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] derefr|12 years ago|reply
Then an image and a lifestyle got attached to it--some mix of the effete New Yorker, the post-punk Seattlite, and the "urban woodsman" Portlander. And now it just refers to those things, and no longer really carries the requirement that the person so-labelled define themselves via contrarianism and contempt.
But language influences thought, people still remember the old meaning, and "slur it forward": seeing people who are hipsters-as-in-culture and assuming they're worthy of the same contempt given to hipsters-as-in-contemptuous-assholes.
[+] [-] sliverstorm|12 years ago|reply
Nothing new there. This how pecking orders form in human society; people who are pushed around look for other people to push around, to feel better about themselves.
[+] [-] jonnathanson|12 years ago|reply
The internet is like alcohol: it doesn't put ideas into people's heads. It just lowers their inhibitions. If people are being dicks on the internet, it's because they are dicks, and the internet gives them a relatively consequence-free forum for expressing their dickitude.
If we're "cynical about humanity" because of "internet communities," we should be "cynical about humanity" because of humanity, full stop.
[+] [-] fixxer|12 years ago|reply
I'm sort of joking and sort of very serious.
I think hipsters, with their funny tight pants, single-speed bikes, and amusing attention to facial hair, have had a positive influence on society. The world needs people to be overly fixated on the mundane, or else we get too productive.
I personally am not cool in any way, nor do I aspire to indicate coolness through my physical appearance. I've got a wife, a kid, and a mortgage. I just can't spare the cycles trying to look cool.
But, I'm happy the hipsters are out there.
Plus, some of them serve excellent coffee.
[+] [-] zamryok|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] roc|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mathattack|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikestew|12 years ago|reply
My theory has been that the downtrodden are pissed because they're on the receiving end, not because it's wrong, evidenced by many examples of them engaging in the same behavior when the opportunity presents itself. Whether it's immigrant minorities or geeks/nerds, the pattern seems to come up time and again.
[+] [-] OriginalAT|12 years ago|reply
I quit browsing Reddit because of the comment sections.
[+] [-] mbesto|12 years ago|reply
What makes an internet community any different from any "other" community? They are both human social constructs. The only difference I would argue is that online communities are much more public about their members' views. "Offline" communities can often hide under a veil of an organizational hierarchy of structure (usually in the form of a representative such as "head of").
[+] [-] TWAndrews|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pintglass|12 years ago|reply
Any self-righteous style that tries to come off as cool and aloof that seem ridiculous to others is going to be made fun of. It doesn't matter what it is. Portlandia makes fun of hipsters. Zoolander made fun of high fashion.
Be yourself first and foremost: type on an old typewriter in the park, wear RPGs even though you were never formerly in the military, drink double Doppios from non-chain coffee shops, and break up with a girl because she said PETA stood for People Eating Tasty Animals. But being made fun of comes with that game.
[+] [-] Tycho|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darkchasma|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sc00ter|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Kiro|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] corresation|12 years ago|reply
In any case, talk about much ado about absolutely nothing. A bunch of people said silly things, largely under the assumption that it was no consequence (that no one was hurt, etc): In many ways the comments on there are performance art. It is the most astonishingly meaningless thing going, and really the purpose of this entry that we're discussing is the chap talking a moment to extend that fifteen minutes.
Above all other things, internet communities is what makes me cynical about humanity.
People declaring their cynicism about humanity (or trite variations like "faith restored") make me cynical about humanity.
[+] [-] vacri|12 years ago|reply
Hipsterism is like that, putting on airs without having the substance, and that annoys people.
Above all other things, internet communities is what makes me cynical about humanity.
Pre-internet communities were far from unicorns and rainbows. Conformity was much more strongly required.
[+] [-] bolder88|12 years ago|reply
Then they do things like this themselves on a daily basis!
[+] [-] sharkweek|12 years ago|reply
My wife and I had one of our wedding pictures take the number one spot on /r/all one day -- There was some rather embarrassing text super-imposed on it that said "Oh you think married women still give BJs" (google Condescending Wife to find it).
Despite some of the comments in the thread being pretty mean, my wife and I took it in stride, we're both internet people, we get it; we thought it was pretty funny all things considered --
The awkward part of all of this though, was this picture was EVERYWHERE for about a day. All over Facebook, Tumblr, etc. So countless friends and family inevitably saw it. I got a call from my concerned father, asking me if everything was ok and if I had seen what the internet had been saying about me and my wife. I explained to him that we didn't really mind and we left it there as explaining reddit to him would have been near impossible. But it was just a really surreal experience. We got dozens of texts and emails that day all asking if we had seen the picture.
The best part of the the internet's short term memory is how quickly this image found it's way into obscurity; to be completely forgotten. No ill harm to my wife's nor my reputation.
[+] [-] adambard|12 years ago|reply
My mother found out when she went to yahoo.com to log into her email and I was on the front page. My father-in-law was watching the local news and saw me giving an interview. Two years later, I can bring out my driver's license at parties and people remember it. But they don't remember me, just the photo, so no harm done. (And happily, my domain has enough precidence on google to at least appear first for searches of my name).
On the upside, if I ever meet Greg Proops or Ellen DeGeneres in person we'll have something in common to talk about.
[+] [-] djhworld|12 years ago|reply
The OP grovelled and apologised for posting the photo without her permission, but still, I think that was one of reddits lowest points
[+] [-] seanalltogether|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gcanyon|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] revelation|12 years ago|reply
Does that seem bizarrely self absorbed to anyone else?
[+] [-] homosaur|12 years ago|reply
This happens in any insular subculture. Do I even need to mention the "geek girl" bullshit?
The problem has quickly become that this revulsion has also played into the jock-centric bullying of anyone who dares to be different--"my football coach won't let me grow my hair long so now let me go punch that faggot with the plastic frames" sort of crap. Any indie community that still exists needs to rid itself of all this baggage for that reason alone.
Whatever utility the word "hipster" had as a pejorative, if any, is gone. Internet killed pop culture and it's dead to stay. The most popular cartoon character now is effing Grumpy Cat. Anyone should consider anyone else using "hipster" as an offhand pejorative to be no greater than a classroom bully, no different than calling someone a dweeb in the 1980s.
[+] [-] Dylan16807|12 years ago|reply
The thing is, the 'geek girl' stereotype is something that almost never happens, but as far as I understand it the stereotypical hipster is not uncommon.
It is possible to 'like' something the wrong way: namely where you do not actually like it. Hipster hate isn't about being different, it's about a perception of dishonest attention-seeking.
[+] [-] ameoba|12 years ago|reply
http://dustinland.com/archives/archives464.html
[+] [-] drcode|12 years ago|reply
(Though I agree people should be more open to people doing fun performance-ish stuff like this, it does not mean a performer is entitled to receive only positive reactions.)
[+] [-] sfbsfbsfb|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PhasmaFelis|12 years ago|reply
Dear Internet Fashionistas: You've decided that fedoras and suspenders are the mark of a horrible person. Your opinions have no connection to reality. Over here in the real world, I look good. When I come back to the bar the next day to pick up my credit card, and the bouncer remembers me well enough to compliment my outfit from the previous night, that means I'm doing it right.
[+] [-] adt2bt|12 years ago|reply
It's just so unfortunate that the internet makes it so hard. You're either loved, hated, or ignored. He, thanks to an unlucky picture angle and loss of context, fell into the 'hated' category by many. I applaud the effort to just do it. It is funny how many view the real world as hard and the internet as an easy escape, yet in his experience, it was just the opposite.
[+] [-] peterwwillis|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] forgottenpaswrd|12 years ago|reply
Don't lose your time with these people. Take a video camera and explain what you do for people in the internet, youtube and vimeo...
Better, you could create a cool kickstarter project in which by the way, you explain better what you do.
Never forget that being able to tell stories is one of the most important abilities humans have, since hunters met at fire in the dark of the ancient night.
Now FOCUS ON FEELING THE LOVE, not the pain. In my business the customer support people used to ignore thousands of satisfied customers letters to focus in the couple of crazy ones.
Don't dedicate neurons to them, don't think yourself the object of Internet ridicule, because we see only validation. Find yourself as the object of respect and love. You have my respect and validation and lots of other people's too. Search for it and you will find it.
[+] [-] im3w1l|12 years ago|reply
Since this is hackernews, it would be interesting to discuss this portion. What would be the best way to use this to propel oneself into success? It seems he was granted a strong brand for free. Mostly negative, but also with some positives. My idea would be to try to be even more hipstery, to really validate peoples impressions, and then try to sell things associated with hipsters: Second hand stuff. Organic, fair trade, hand made clothing. Maybe try to appear in a commercial for glasses. I don't know much about marketing so sorry if this is completely wrong. Just wanted to put some ideas out there to start a discussion.
[+] [-] sp332|12 years ago|reply
The reaction, then, had nothing to do with hipsters... they hated me because I looked like I was nakedly desperate for attention, and had gone about that attention-grabbing by glomming on to marginalized trends.
I thought that was the whole reason people didn't like hipsters. Now I'm confused.
[+] [-] techtalsky|12 years ago|reply
They're the sweetest, coolest, most open-minded people and I adore them. They're not trying to act like they're better or more stylish than anyone else, but the level of "hipster hate" they got in the thread was just intense.
[+] [-] TomGullen|12 years ago|reply
Its the ugly, non creative side of accessibility in modern technology that hurts people sometimes significantly. If someone did it to me, I would probably be very hurt. "Look at this super ugly fat guy on my bus!" That ugly fat guy might of just mustered enough courage over the last week to step outside and as a result he gets ambushed in a hurtful demeaning way. It's not just the post, imagine going outside and noticing people slyly trying to snap pictures of you, how would you feel?
These sorts of posts are often veiled behind a thin curtain of pathetic vacuous wit. People need to call this sort of behaviour out more.
[+] [-] voyou|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] actionscripted|12 years ago|reply
Having been on Reddit for more than 6 years, what always blows me away are these "lessons". Sure, everyone backpedals a bit and thinks, "gee, he's not the douchebag hipster we thought and we acted like assholes" but it happens over, and over and over.
As others have also mentioned in here, I'm always amazed that those most prone to being bullied seem more than okay taking on the role of bully online with zero context.
[+] [-] D9u|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eagsalazar2|12 years ago|reply
People hate them because they make them feel bad by generally doing things most people are too lazy to do themselves, not because they go around telling everyone they are crappy or acting holier than thou. The act of recycling old clothing is what offends people, not hipsters talking about it.
You know what is holier than thou? "Hipsters are hypocritical scum". I've never been told anything like that by someone who is a hipster (except my radical feminist lesbian sister-in-law and it isn't because she's a hipster)
[+] [-] altcognito|12 years ago|reply
http://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/ygfv7/spotted_on_the_hi...
[+] [-] l33tbro|12 years ago|reply
Sorry for the crazy-person all-caps, but this thing really crunches my Funyuns. Hipsters are a totally made-up label to brand people with that are into different shit. Would we have called Dylan a hipster (in the derogatory sense, not the beatnik sense)? What about Steve Jobs in the early days? Shoot, even Woz wore some pretty ironic bow-ties (definite hipster).
What's also a gas is that all these "hipster bashers" are so heck-darn defensive of mainstream culture. We all acknowledge that Walmart is a shithole. We all agree McDonalds is feeding garbage into our souls. So why are people so darn defensive about people who are trying to explore different things.
The "hipster" label is a sickeningly old cliche. Seriously. So-called "hipster-bashing" has been going on for 10 years now (it all started with 'the hipster handbook'. I've never really got it either. I mean, people don't actively go out and go "right, I'm going to be a hipster". Like the amazing roaming typist, these people are just interested in different things.
In my opinion, these "hipster bashers" are people that are just so obviously insecure about their own lives. Why bash others, just because you can't step out of your box.
Then again - maybe the definition of a hipster is someone who does actively embrace the attributes of this made-up subculture to form an identity - without understanding the depths of what they are appropriating. I must say, I have not met anyone like this. Hence, why I think hipsters don't exist.