There are a number of beautiful places in the United States where it is possible for a person to subsist quite luxuriously on $1200/mo and preserve the ability to throw parties for friends, buy books and tools, etc. As of January a person with such income will have free Medicare in Oregon.
"Fuck You" money is an illusion that keeps you working. The mind loves to believe that having enough of some external thing will give us control, safety, or whatever we most fear the lack of. It isn't true. A man with with excess money is absorbed in concerns of what to do with it and is hardly free. He might be able to say "fuck you" to people, but he can't say "fuck you" to money.
Freedom is measured by the scarcity of our concerns. And happiness, perhaps, by closeness with people to whom we need never say "fuck you" because we love them and accept them fully.
That is my receipe as well. I live in Poland, where stuff can be hilariously cheap when living on a good "first world" contracting rate. In the last 7 years I've contracted for maybe 3.5 years total. Right now I'm about to end my last contract and have money for another 4-5 years of freedom. And my lifestyle includes eating out 1-3 per day, having a maid, brand new car, some travel. Seriously, I sometimes feel sorry for people born in rich countries (esp. living in places like NYC, London) who need to work much more than I do to maintain the same lifestyle.
yea, but you still need $360k or so to be able to withdraw $1200/month forever without worry. That's still a decent chunk of change. I guess you can save it in 5 years, but if you don't like working those 5 years will be hellaciously long
The method of a leisure class without duties was, however, extraordinarily wasteful. None of the members of the class had to be taught to be industrious, and the class as a whole was not exceptionally intelligent. The class might produce one Darwin, but against him had to be set tens of thousands of country gentlemen who never thought of anything more intelligent than fox-hunting and punishing poachers.
I'm down. We should be massively ramping up the amount of leisure time in our society so that we, as a society, never miss out on a potential Darwin or Lincoln or Jesus or whomever. How many world-changing, mental giants have we missed out on because they couldn't free their minds from working 40+ hours a week?
Well, apart from that last fictional character who has arguably brought more harm than good through his ideas (and arguably through them being misinterpreted), I'm all down with that.
> His work has had a considerable influence on logic, mathematics, set theory, linguistics, artificial intelligence, computer science (see type theory and type system), and philosophy, especially philosophy of language, epistemology, and metaphysics.
Plus he won the Nobel Prize in Literature!
For a very approachable overview of Russell's complex life, I highly recommend the graphic novel "Logicomix"
My personal favourite so far has been 'Mysticism and Logic and Other Essays' with 'Analysis of Mind' currently at the top of my reading queue. Not everything he did was like reading 'Principia Mathematica' and his writing is very open, readable and eloquent.
It is rather strange. More and more things of everyday life are automated and computerized. Nevertheless, I have the impression to have less and less time to do all the things I want/need to do.
Something happened to me yesterday that I haven't quite had the time to figure out.
I'm normally the introverted "stay at home and relax" type, at least during the week. I frequently want to get home from work as early as possible to play video games, play music, or read. The only problem I've had lately is I've had little motivation to do the creative parts (e.g. creating music or programming something).
But last night I went to the gym after work, making me get home an hour later than usual. Then I went out to an open mic with some music friends and had food and beers. Then I came back home and played video games for an hour or so. Then I managed to actually write music for another hour and a half.
It was weird, because normally I'd feel like I had a huge block of time in front of me (in theory, "relaxing"), so I could do whatever I wanted. But the catch was that I actually wouldn't do them! I'd procrastinate, and feel like I wasn't using the time "best" way. Last night was so different, and I felt really energized this morning.
What's the takeaway? I don't know yet. Maybe I'll try to do more. It was fun.
I have noticed the same. Then I remembered the internet makes my day feel like running with a parachute.
Sure, I could just get up and go make lunch when I'm hungry. But I could also just refresh HN first. I think it takes a second, it actually takes 10 minutes. Especially if I reply to something.
Sure I could just get home from exercise and start working. But I can also check out imgur and twitter first. I feel liek it takes 5 minutes, but it's actually half an hour.
I have all this leisure time that I am being leisurely, but it doesn't feel leisurely. It feels like a rush to quickly pack more stuff in between work.
I'm beginning to think this is the problem of our time. We have the combined resources to solve any and all problems, but generally solve none of them, and the predicament spans individuals to governments. There is no readily apparent solution, because if there was, it would already be happening (is there a scientific term for that?)
Really, just prioritize what you want to do, rather than just doing it in the moment. You'll limit yourself this way to the cool stuff and still have time for doing nothing. But the "do nothing" time has to be made a priority, rather than being what's left over. If you have to, schedule the do-nothing time. It's incredibly refreshing and balancing.
"If he merely puts his savings in a stocking, like the proverbial French peasant, it is obvious that they do not give employment."
What is "obvious" to Bertrand Russell is bad economics.
When the peasant puts his money in a stocking, he causes a slight deflation, so prices decrease, which increases the value of everyone else's money. So everyone else effectively has more to spend, if they want to.
However, everyone else would be prudent to assume that the peasant will eventually spend his money, which will correspondingly cause prices to rise again.
It might seem that an earlier gain is offset by a later loss.
But, those who benefit from the slight deflation can choose to invest the increased value of their monetary holdings into industry. At a later time, when the peasant decides to spend his money, the products of that industry will be ready for purchase.
Thus, with nothing more than surplus cash and a stocking, the peasant has driven investment in industry, productive employment, and long-term growth in the wealth of society, the benefits of which he has foregone since he chose not to seek a return of interest on his savings.
I have to say there's a good chance that society is already moving toward Russell's ideal.
If you just look at accelerators like YCombinator, you'll see that two successful startups (Dropbox and AirBnb) are by-and-large paying for the investment of the other several hundred startups several times over.
So when will we see it going to the next level? Gather a bunch of people together, using whatever criteria you see fit, and tell them to do whatever they want. Pay for their room and board, and see what is produced from their complete leisure time. If the produce of that investment was one of the individuals simply having an idea on the scale of something like "Democracy" or "Altruism", wouldn't it be completely worth it if the other individuals never did anything more than eat, sleep, and play video games?
We called those "housing projects" and they were not exactly a paradise to live in. Superficially need some minimal level of education/civilization. Which merely excludes those bored by formal education, most of whom are idiots and a small fraction of them are geniuses. For lack of a better idea you could use some weighted GPA/IQ/GRE/SAT/ACT score system. Assuming the smartest people are those who come up with the best ideas. It does seem that to spread an idea you need a smart dude but a think tank should hire marketing people for that? Perhaps a lotto would work just as well for selection. A lotto instead of elections would likely give us a superior government, perhaps it would give us superior ideas on average.
Another interesting example is the Institute for Advanced Studies nearby Princeton, I think. You might want to examine whats been produced there.
Surely YCombinator and startup culture is the antithesis of what Russell is talking about as being desirable? The legions of burned out coders would probably not equate crunch time with leisure time.
Of a similar thinking is, I suppose, "The Right to Be Lazy" by Paul Lafargue.
I read it some time ago and if I remember correctly he believed that there isn't/wasn't any need to work more than 3 hours a day because of the technological advances of the time (and to think this was in 1883!)
There is this thing about ancient China: each son, when his father died, had to mourn for three years. Yes, three years. And it meant stopping your official occupation, e.g. official employment. (This didn't apply to the peasant).
Result: most of the great products of Chinese culture are a direct consequence of this forced idleness.
Here's something sort of related in Deuteronomy 24:5 - If a man has recently married, he must not be sent to war or have any other duty laid on him. For one year he is to be free to stay at home and bring happiness to the wife he has married
How much of the rest of the Bible came out of obeying that law, I wonder?
Well, having a good bash at that particular problem. Not sure if Russell and Whitehead actually succeeded.
"Work is of two kinds: first, altering the position of matter at or near the earth's surface relatively to other such matter; second, telling other people to do so. The first kind is unpleasant and ill paid; the second is pleasant and highly paid."
There is a great deal of anarchist and libertarian communist literature critiquing the modern concept of work, notably Russian anarchist Kropotkin's book 'the conquest of bread' originally written in around 1906.
http://libcom.org/library/the-conquest-of-bread-peter-kropot...
I was half through and I suddenly had a click in my head, thought this was written by pg.
Same clean and efficient style, same nakedness without any philosophical scaffolding, while being bullet tracing a straight line through many philosophical stand points.
Two very clairvoyant minds. Let's go back reading.
I wonder how much Mr. Russel was idle himself having written on average 2 books per year throughout his life and significantly contributing on so many levels.
I recently stumbled upon a great graphic comic (mostly factual) about Betrand Russell and his life. I'd highly recommend it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logicomix
I wonder what Bertrand Russell would say about Undercover Cop. If only he were alive today and given the chance to produce his on reality tv show. I wonder what that would be like?
I notice that nobody has related this to the Swiss proposal to provide a basic income for all adults. If it works there, I wonder if other countries will move in that direction.
[+] [-] enduser|12 years ago|reply
"Fuck You" money is an illusion that keeps you working. The mind loves to believe that having enough of some external thing will give us control, safety, or whatever we most fear the lack of. It isn't true. A man with with excess money is absorbed in concerns of what to do with it and is hardly free. He might be able to say "fuck you" to people, but he can't say "fuck you" to money.
Freedom is measured by the scarcity of our concerns. And happiness, perhaps, by closeness with people to whom we need never say "fuck you" because we love them and accept them fully.
[+] [-] lgieron|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eli_gottlieb|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pyrrhotech|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] theunixbeard|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mailshanx|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] padobson|12 years ago|reply
I'm down. We should be massively ramping up the amount of leisure time in our society so that we, as a society, never miss out on a potential Darwin or Lincoln or Jesus or whomever. How many world-changing, mental giants have we missed out on because they couldn't free their minds from working 40+ hours a week?
[+] [-] npsimons|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Draiken|12 years ago|reply
Only the powerful and rich can really change this reality, and it's clearly not aligned with their interests.
[+] [-] leejoramo|12 years ago|reply
> His work has had a considerable influence on logic, mathematics, set theory, linguistics, artificial intelligence, computer science (see type theory and type system), and philosophy, especially philosophy of language, epistemology, and metaphysics.
Plus he won the Nobel Prize in Literature!
For a very approachable overview of Russell's complex life, I highly recommend the graphic novel "Logicomix"
http://www.logicomix.com/
Then you will certainly find yourself wanting to learn more about this amazing person.
[+] [-] samograd|12 years ago|reply
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/355
My personal favourite so far has been 'Mysticism and Logic and Other Essays' with 'Analysis of Mind' currently at the top of my reading queue. Not everything he did was like reading 'Principia Mathematica' and his writing is very open, readable and eloquent.
[+] [-] __matt|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] singingfish|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] parasight|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] d23|12 years ago|reply
I'm normally the introverted "stay at home and relax" type, at least during the week. I frequently want to get home from work as early as possible to play video games, play music, or read. The only problem I've had lately is I've had little motivation to do the creative parts (e.g. creating music or programming something).
But last night I went to the gym after work, making me get home an hour later than usual. Then I went out to an open mic with some music friends and had food and beers. Then I came back home and played video games for an hour or so. Then I managed to actually write music for another hour and a half.
It was weird, because normally I'd feel like I had a huge block of time in front of me (in theory, "relaxing"), so I could do whatever I wanted. But the catch was that I actually wouldn't do them! I'd procrastinate, and feel like I wasn't using the time "best" way. Last night was so different, and I felt really energized this morning.
What's the takeaway? I don't know yet. Maybe I'll try to do more. It was fun.
[+] [-] Swizec|12 years ago|reply
Sure, I could just get up and go make lunch when I'm hungry. But I could also just refresh HN first. I think it takes a second, it actually takes 10 minutes. Especially if I reply to something.
Sure I could just get home from exercise and start working. But I can also check out imgur and twitter first. I feel liek it takes 5 minutes, but it's actually half an hour.
I have all this leisure time that I am being leisurely, but it doesn't feel leisurely. It feels like a rush to quickly pack more stuff in between work.
[+] [-] zackmorris|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cafard|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eliben|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ternaryoperator|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Toenex|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pjdorrell|12 years ago|reply
What is "obvious" to Bertrand Russell is bad economics.
When the peasant puts his money in a stocking, he causes a slight deflation, so prices decrease, which increases the value of everyone else's money. So everyone else effectively has more to spend, if they want to.
However, everyone else would be prudent to assume that the peasant will eventually spend his money, which will correspondingly cause prices to rise again.
It might seem that an earlier gain is offset by a later loss.
But, those who benefit from the slight deflation can choose to invest the increased value of their monetary holdings into industry. At a later time, when the peasant decides to spend his money, the products of that industry will be ready for purchase.
Thus, with nothing more than surplus cash and a stocking, the peasant has driven investment in industry, productive employment, and long-term growth in the wealth of society, the benefits of which he has foregone since he chose not to seek a return of interest on his savings.
[+] [-] wintersFright|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] philwelch|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] padobson|12 years ago|reply
If you just look at accelerators like YCombinator, you'll see that two successful startups (Dropbox and AirBnb) are by-and-large paying for the investment of the other several hundred startups several times over.
So when will we see it going to the next level? Gather a bunch of people together, using whatever criteria you see fit, and tell them to do whatever they want. Pay for their room and board, and see what is produced from their complete leisure time. If the produce of that investment was one of the individuals simply having an idea on the scale of something like "Democracy" or "Altruism", wouldn't it be completely worth it if the other individuals never did anything more than eat, sleep, and play video games?
[+] [-] VLM|12 years ago|reply
Another interesting example is the Institute for Advanced Studies nearby Princeton, I think. You might want to examine whats been produced there.
[+] [-] anjc|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] imarg|12 years ago|reply
I read it some time ago and if I remember correctly he believed that there isn't/wasn't any need to work more than 3 hours a day because of the technological advances of the time (and to think this was in 1883!)
After a quick search I found it is available online at: http://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
[+] [-] foobarqux|12 years ago|reply
http://paulbe.dreamwidth.org/961.html
[+] [-] ludwigvan|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gbog|12 years ago|reply
Result: most of the great products of Chinese culture are a direct consequence of this forced idleness.
[+] [-] padobson|12 years ago|reply
How much of the rest of the Bible came out of obeying that law, I wonder?
[+] [-] jonahss|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RyanMcGreal|12 years ago|reply
Notwithstanding that small matter of formally defining the logical foundations of all mathematics.
[+] [-] keithpeter|12 years ago|reply
"Work is of two kinds: first, altering the position of matter at or near the earth's surface relatively to other such matter; second, telling other people to do so. The first kind is unpleasant and ill paid; the second is pleasant and highly paid."
I've always liked that quote.
[+] [-] kasperbn|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CaptainSwing|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hownottowrite|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] richtr|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] badman_ting|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gbog|12 years ago|reply
Same clean and efficient style, same nakedness without any philosophical scaffolding, while being bullet tracing a straight line through many philosophical stand points.
Two very clairvoyant minds. Let's go back reading.
[+] [-] yankoff|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] myth_drannon|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _nullandnull_|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] volume|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 00rion|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] computerJanitor|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Draiken|12 years ago|reply
Reasons that are not ours, but for those who control us.
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] kyberias|12 years ago|reply