[Xurinos]

I believe you may be saying that if your goal is to make somebody say "Yes", then the toolset adequate for the job is one based around manipulation. One may manipulate through direct force, emotional means, whatever it takes. It is a waste of time and irritating -- perhaps condescending in that it is an obvious manipulation? -- to say things like, "Let me first say I've learnt a lot from you, I really appreciated your view on this that and that. I think you are smart person blablabla" before getting to the point. Like you said, it distracts from the actual important points of the argument. In fact, such an approach towards discussion is, as you point out, counter-productive.

You're right. It's manipulation. Building consensus, too, is a form of manipulation. Some of it is irritating, especially if it is delivered in the form you quoted. My hackles rise, too!

From your comment, I am seeing that the real issue is when the manipulation is overt, when someone expresses something in a way that is clearly intended to push you in a direction rather than actually respect and accept your buy-in.

But that leads me to seeing that this really just another form of pathos. In a conversation, the average person wants to feel respected, that their opinion has merit. This is part of rhetoric. In fact, where action and tone are lacking, some people may genuinely need the additional words of appreciation that set you and me off. My point is that logos is not the only valid appeal, and I would propose that nobody is absolutely rational, meaning that degrees of the other forms of persuasion are acceptable and useful means.

To address your first point, all persuasion is manipulation. Somewhere I read that all speech is a form of persuasion, though the reasoning behind this assertion may be a bit contrived. Instead of elaborating on that point, I want to suggest instead that even if it is not "all", even if it is just "most", we could see instead that manipulation is not an evil in itself. Clearly there is nothing wrong with asking somebody where they would like to eat as your means to coerce them into joining you for dinner. Obtaining consensus or bringing someone to agree with you is not, itself, an evil or even irritating.

Armed with all the appeals of rhetoric and following these steps with respect to the audience's needs, I think the four steps listed at the top of the thread are acceptable means in polite society of persuasion, or, if you prefer, manipulation.

Addendum: I just tried the four steps. Was this post a successful example? Did I overdo it?