E-Cigarettes are going to save millions of lives in the coming years. They're harmless, and, if you get a brand that feels like the real thing, easy to transition to. I hope the tobacco industry takes a huge financial hit from the sale of these things because they literally prevent people from dying.
That being said, when I switched to e-cigarettes, it was very easy to switch back to regular cigarettes. That "narrow bridge of familiarity" was easy to cross back over, especially when I ran out of vapor cartridges. Ultimately for me to quit it took stopping cigarettes cold-turkey. Nicotine gum and a transition to regular gum helped a lot. It's been one of the hardest but most rewarding things I've ever done in my life.
1. E-cigarettes are not harmless and I wish people would stop perpetuating that lie. It is not clear exactly how harmful they are, but they are not harmless.
2. Ecig marketers are trying to push this story line of e-cigs vs the tobacco industry. It is mostly bs as the major ecig company blu is owned by a major tobacco company and every other major tobacco company has an ecig line now. The ecig industry is the tobacco industry.
I am very happy for you that you were able to quit. And it seems to me that is the only way.
But are they harmless? If they’re made with chemicals in an unregulated industrial process, it seems unlikely. Less harmful than ”analog” cigarettes, maybe—but completely harmless seems like an unlikely stretch.
I used to run a custom e-cigarette company. We sold it this summer.
My take away was that the federal government eventually will get involved and start regulating the shipping of these items. Unfortunately the stuff people are getting now is mostly made in China and you can't be too certain of what the heck you are getting when you take a big inhale and just taste the apple flavoring or whatever. Who knows what chemicals are used to make them.
Most of the testimonials I received was from people that were able to quit smoking because of my product, but I definitely got some complaints as well. The biggest benefit of the e-cig is that is is little to no smell. Definitely hit them on airplanes before with no problems. It is an interesting market though where it seems like new types of e-cigs are coming out all the time.
Another thing about e-cigs is that people are making them into e-joints. This is very popular especially in medical marijuana states. Before they banned synthetic marijuana, we were developing a synthetic marijuana e-cig. Would have been fun to have around, but ultimately I am glad not to be filling in mass them any more!
Beyond that, what gives you the right to put other people's health at risk? You have either judged them safe or decided you don't care about the risks. You can't make that decision for other people and you're not in a position to know what genetic or other disorders that someone might have that make them more susceptible to any kind of tobacco (ex: http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/alpha-1-antitrypsin-deficie...). How is this any different from me walking onto a plane with a clump of asbestos fibers and waving it over your head on the plane?
It is really interesting to look at this article through the lens of the PR agency/strategy that helped place it for NJOY.
1) Quotes from CEO
2) Little anecdote from Chief Marketing Officer
3) Big vision "Vaping" becomes common place.
4) Key differentiators: "building e-cigarettes that look, feel and perform like the real thing" (this is sprinkled
throughout)
5) Celebrity endorsement, Big names: Peter Thiel, Brunno Mars
The rest (post first page) is a nice over view of the e-cigarette industry, and some challenges facing NJOY. I wonder how long they were working on a NYT article, of if this was something pretty easy for them to get, given interest around e-cigarettes.
I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. When you say something to them they invariably try to "educate" you on what an e-cigarette is and how it's different. The problem is that e-cigarettes have not been shown to be safe. From the article:
Most public health officials seem to agree that the levels of toxins in e-cigarettes are far lower than those in traditional cigarettes. But they also say that far too little is known, not just about potentially harmful aspects of particular brands of e-cigarettes, but also about whether there is harm from “secondhand vapor.” Dr. Glantz of U.C.S.F. says that in the absence of data, indoor smoking bans should also cover e-cigarettes.
The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty:
I understand why my mother started smoking when she was 16 and then smoked a pack a day for the next 43 years until she died from cancer. Why in the world are people starting to smoke today with everything we know about it?
> I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking.
Most reasonable people in the vaping community discourage that kind of behavior. At the end of the day, there will always be assholes.
> The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty
There are four ingredients in e-cigarette juice: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and flavoring.
Adverse effects generally come from an allergic reaction to PG, which is uncommon but well known. Those who are allergic are advised to use 100% VG mixtures.
Aside from that, PG is well known to be safe for human consumption as regulated by the FDA. It is an ingredient in inhalers for asthma and is used in smoke machines. It can cause a humidicant effect on the throat, which leaves it dry, but drinking liquids easily avoids this problem.
No one is arguing that e-cigarette companies should not be regulated to make sure that the juice they produce is of a high quality, but arguments to regulate them heavily (or like regular cigarettes) is based mostly on FUD.
> Why in the world are people starting to smoke today with everything we know about it?
Because humans aren't rational machines and there are many things that cause people to take up habits that aren't healthy. That's not something that's ever going to go away.
While long term data on e-cigarettes is not yet available, most experts agree that even in the worst-case scenario, they are nowhere near as bad for you as regular cigarettes. The FUD that exists in the debate can mostly be traced back to groups that have a temperance movement-esque attitude toward nicotine habits.
Nicotine is no more addictive or harmful to a person in a normal dose than caffeine, and its effects are similar also.
E-cigarettes are helping millions of people to get themselves off the dangers of regular cigarettes. That in itself is a public health miracle. The rates of cessation for cigarettes through traditional methods are frighteningly low, yet with the introduction of e-cigarettes, many people (including myself) will never touch a regular cigarette again after the first day.
I have a more advanced device than the ones you pick up at a gas station. It has variable wattage, variable voltage, an ohm-meter, a puff counter, and I can charge my iPhone from it via USB. As well as getting me off tobacco, it's also given me something else to geek out over, and I really enjoy it and the community around it.
Access to these devices must be made available widely and without encumbrance to as many people as possible. Regulations that come in should be about quality of product, not discouragement of purchase.
> I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking.
Ad hominem. Plus, just because something resembles smoking does not mean you should conflate the two, "poisoning the well."
> When you say something to them they invariably try to "educate" you on what an e-cigarette is and how it's different
Condescending and derisive.
> The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty
Finally we get to some actual evidence. I'll check it out, but from that intro you're probably seeking confirmation bias. Did you find any opposing data?
You have the scientific method backwards. Things are not shown to be safe, ever. They are shown to be dangerous.
For example, cannabis smoke. It has been shown to cause emphysema. Despite rather large and lengthy population studies, it has not been shown to cause lung cancer. That's despite both your instinct and my own that "of course any smoke causes cancer of the lungs". No, cannabis smoke has not been demonstrated to do that.
E-liquid is hugely variable in quality because there's no regulation. While I happen to think quality e-liquid will be safe for say 98% of the population to inhale, and the rest will be just as easily sent into shock by, say, perfume (this allergy is quite common), it is only detailed study which can actually answer this question.
Wow, looking through your citation, almost all of the reports are because the user had a lung condition prior, or an allergy to glycol. This is merely confirmation bias in a report, at best. This is why they SHOULD be regulated, so the adequate warnings can be expressed and the low quality one thrown out of the market, but it does not show that ALL should just be removed.
We already see that your experience has shaped your worldview, but dont impose that on others.
> The problem is that [we know nothing about the safety or lack thereof of] e-cigarettes
> Why in the world are people starting to smoke today with everything we know about it?
We don't know anything about it [e-cigarrettes]. There is no literature that suggests that nicotine alone causes cancer, and no research at all on the safety of the devices themselves.
Should we do more research as they gain popular adoption? Definitely.
A lot of smokers I know switched to these things. They 'smoke' (is that the proper word with such an e-cig?) far more than they did before. Some of them use them every second they have nothing todo with one of their hands, which basically means they're puffing most of their waking day. I hope for them these things don't turn out to be as bad as/worse than normal cigs...
As someone who switched to an e-cigarette, I might be able to answer this for you.
The first thing is that the level and effect of nicotine that is absorbed though vapor is a lot less than a regular cigarette. The reason for this is twofold: firstly, the lungs/mouth/throat seem to simply not pick up as much as in a cigarette, and secondly, cigarette smoke also contains MAOIs, which increase the sensitivity of the brain to nicotine's effects.
In addition, users can choose the level of nicotine that they use. Most e-cig users who are regular smokers tend to start at around 18mg/ml. When I first started, I was using this liquid in a 1.6ml tank. One tank worked out to about 1 pack of cigarettes worth of nicotine, and I got through about a tank a day: the same amount that I used to smoke in cigarettes, except spread out through a longer period of time.
Most vapers will puff way differently to cigarette users. We take one or two puffs at a time and then wait, while a cigarette user will smoke the whole thing quickly in one go.
Nicotine has been shown[1] to increase creativity in the brain, and I know from my own experience that I find it to be great while working. Most of my 'House' moments when tackling difficult coding problems have occurred on the curb with a cigarette in my mouth, and now I lean back at my desk and have a few puffs of fine-tasting menthol e-liquid.
They've already been studied, and they are clearly far, far less harmful than ordinary cigarettes. As for the more constant usage, it's definitely a problem, and one that will need some creativity to solve. I don't buy the explanation that you're getting less nicotine from it. People who use high-concentration liquid seem to have just as much as a problem with it as people who don't. As for the MAOI explanation: I've known people who use MAOIs and ecigs at the same time. They exhibit the same behavior.
What I think is happening is this: With a classical cigarette, there's a clear beginning and end. With an e-cig there isn't. You're getting a dopamine reward every time you hit it, and there's no cue to stop. My recommendation to anyone starting on ecigs would therefore be to start with a very low nicotine concentration, and stay there.
If you want to avoid this effect, that is. If you don't care (and there doesn't appear to be a health reason to care), then I just wouldn't worry about it.
My dad went through the same process. He smoked his e-cigarette essentially non-stop, all day long, everywhere he went.
He eventually ditched it and went back to real cigarettes, though he smokes drastically fewer per day now than he used to. Unfortunately, though, I expect his habit to be back in full swing in the next few years.
I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea. I see people "smoking" these things everywhere: on the bus, on the train, at the effing university during classes!
I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face.
I can't believe people don't get this.
> I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea.
The millions of people who have quit tobacco because of them, for one example.
> I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face.
On behalf of the decent people in the vaping community, I'm sorry that you have to put up with people like that. There's a big movement in the community at the moment to severely discourage people from using them in inappropriate places like restaurants or around people who are disturbed by it.
However, I think that this problem can be solved by awareness raising alone. It's too risky for the sake of public health to ban them in certain places or outright.
If you come across someone doing this and you don't like it, tell them that propylene glycol vapor irritates you and ask them to avoid making clouds. Holding in the vapor for more than 5 seconds usually means that none at all will be expelled when they exhale. This is what I, and many others, do if we ever vape on public transport etc., which I try to avoid anyway.
Exactly. I do not care what chemicals someone wants to put in his or her body but I care very strongly what chemicals and odors are around mine. The county where I live bans indoor e-cig and vaporizer consumption in the same places where cigarette smoking would be banned, such as inside office buildings, yet my coworkers simply do not care. This goes double for the bus or train stop where I have no choice; if I want or need to take that bus/train, I must stand _right_ _freaking_ _there_. When a couple of "vapers" (that's honestly the name I've heard people at work call themselves when they are partaking) are there and combined with another one to three people smoking "real" cigarettes, it gets quite hazy and uncomfortable.
People tap-tap-tapping at their fucking phones gets the same reaction from me. Of course it's irrational for me to feel this way, so I've learned to ignore it.
Yeah, I too despise the militant glee people derive from using them everywhere. I also hate the enormous numbers of tacky shops ('MyCiggy'... jeez) appearing to flog them, which seem single-handedly to be propping up the Guild of Bad Typographers.
“The very thing that could make them effective is also their greatest danger,” said Dr. Tim McAfee, director of Office on Smoking and Health at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
It's exactly this kind of thinking that started and perpetuates the pernicious war on drugs. It's the root of the (proven false) "gateway drug" phenomenon.
The "thing" by the way is the fact that they don't do any harm. How absurd and ridiculous ..
Smokers getting annoyed looks at a Stones concert??? My how times have changed. The last time I saw the Stones in concert the entire venue was so filled with cigarette (and I'm sure other) smoke that when the house lights came up at the end of the show the place looked like a Cheech and Chong scene.
I do not understand why some people try to regulate this. My guess is that income from smoking-tax is shrinking.
I never smoked cigarette in my life, but I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee. It works, no hassle with tea or coffee preparation, also it is probably healthier. But being labeled as a smoker puts me off.
"I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee...it is probably healthier."
I'll grant that vaporization ameliorates the problems merely caused by smoke inhalation, but doesn't inhaling nicotine cause many health problems on its own? I'll also not aware of there being health issues that result from drinking a normal amount of tea or coffee.
If I smoked, it certainly wouldn't be something I would show off to others readily or be proud of in any way, I'd see it as an embarrassment. Even if these are safer, I still consider them to be anti-social.
I'm not a smoker, but I can't see why e-cigarettes should be anything more than a way to help stop smoking.
Why not? If the are not dangerous to others, what is the big deal? If it is just an image thing, we have an advertising industry quite good at changing those images.
Since people here talk about the difference of e-cigs and cigarettes , i.e. the lack of effects on MAOI, have anybody tried any juice that claims to have that effect on MAOI, for example "aroma ejuice" ?
How were the results for you ? And does anybody know about research or regulation of this types of ejuices ?
And since those same MAOI affecting compounds(probably beta carbolates) found in tobacco ,are found in brewed coffee, kinds of seasoning, grilled foods and other stuff, have anybody noticed a combination of vaping and some food more effective ?
Beta-carboline MAOI's were originally hypothesized to be what is important for those who feel something is missing with nicotine-only eliquid. After 3 years of working on this, I can tell you that this is not true. What's important is the other "minor tobacco alkaloids" like anatabine, anabasine, myosimine, etc.
Beta-carboline MAOI's, like the minor alkaloids, do have a potentiating effect with nicotine and therefore increase satisfaction or the potential for addiction; however, these MAOI's are pyrosynthesized (created by burning) 20-40x. This means that these MAOI's are not a significant component of a WTA eliquid or non-burned tobacco like the snus many people turn to for the "something missing".
I really feel like an ET. I'm from a world of cigarrete tv commercials; marlboro mclaren car; my mom, at 73, still smokes, daddy smoked until his last day and his death cause was not related to tobacco; grandfathers too; I studied in a technical high school where the teenagers could freely smoke; in university, there was one teacher that smoked cigars in the classroom...lost world of youth.
I used a nicotine spray. I have done for a few months now, it works sublingually. I used it (and patches) to quit smoking, and I'm nearly there, only a few weeks left.
What I find interesting though, is that while the spray does indeed get rid of the cravings, it (and the e-cigs I've used) is not the same "feeling" as smoking. This is possibly because of the lack of any MAOIs in the liquid itself.
How many of those using e-cigs here are ex-smokers? How many picked it up because it's a socially "acceptable" drug that you can now take without killing yourself slowly? I find it such a fascinating topic!
I am an e-cig user, and an ex-smoker. There are five of us now in my group of friends.
I love the things. It's become a fun hobby for us. We swap flavours, buy hardware to show off, and talk about our experience whenever we're together. Way more fun than smoking ever was.
And, take this with a grain of salt (sample size of one), but I feel way better. No more coughing in the mornings, I take hills on my bike like a pro, and I'd swear I look healthier.
I've been using an e-cig for about 3 months now and I've wanted a real cigarette maybe 3 times. The sheer volume of flavours and things to try is keeping me off the cigs. I've dropped my nicotine level down from medium to medium-low and I'm looking to drop again soon.
It's the closest thing to smoking without actually smoking and it's the only thing that's worked for me. I've tried cold turkey, patches and gum. None worked for more than a few weeks of constantly thinking about smoking.
I've always thought that part of what made quitting cigarettes so hard is the social aspect. Laws preventing it force fellow smokers together in designated areas where I guess they smoke and chat. To suddenly quit not only means you're suffering from the physical withdrawl but also the social aspect. e-cigs seem like the only alternative to actual cigarettes which mean you don't lose that social aspect since you can hang out with other smokers while you vape, should you wish.
[+] [-] pvnick|12 years ago|reply
That being said, when I switched to e-cigarettes, it was very easy to switch back to regular cigarettes. That "narrow bridge of familiarity" was easy to cross back over, especially when I ran out of vapor cartridges. Ultimately for me to quit it took stopping cigarettes cold-turkey. Nicotine gum and a transition to regular gum helped a lot. It's been one of the hardest but most rewarding things I've ever done in my life.
[+] [-] hristov|12 years ago|reply
2. Ecig marketers are trying to push this story line of e-cigs vs the tobacco industry. It is mostly bs as the major ecig company blu is owned by a major tobacco company and every other major tobacco company has an ecig line now. The ecig industry is the tobacco industry.
I am very happy for you that you were able to quit. And it seems to me that is the only way.
[+] [-] blankenship|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dhughes|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unlucky|12 years ago|reply
From what I can tell, the tobacco industry is going to eventually own the e-cig market too.
http://money.msn.com/investing/big-tobacco-invests-in-e-ciga... http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57588583/
[+] [-] rickdale|12 years ago|reply
My take away was that the federal government eventually will get involved and start regulating the shipping of these items. Unfortunately the stuff people are getting now is mostly made in China and you can't be too certain of what the heck you are getting when you take a big inhale and just taste the apple flavoring or whatever. Who knows what chemicals are used to make them.
Most of the testimonials I received was from people that were able to quit smoking because of my product, but I definitely got some complaints as well. The biggest benefit of the e-cig is that is is little to no smell. Definitely hit them on airplanes before with no problems. It is an interesting market though where it seems like new types of e-cigs are coming out all the time.
Another thing about e-cigs is that people are making them into e-joints. This is very popular especially in medical marijuana states. Before they banned synthetic marijuana, we were developing a synthetic marijuana e-cig. Would have been fun to have around, but ultimately I am glad not to be filling in mass them any more!
[+] [-] 300bps|12 years ago|reply
If you were flying on an airline based in the United States, you violated their rules.
http://www.businessinsider.com/you-cant-smoke-e-cigarettes-i...
Beyond that, what gives you the right to put other people's health at risk? You have either judged them safe or decided you don't care about the risks. You can't make that decision for other people and you're not in a position to know what genetic or other disorders that someone might have that make them more susceptible to any kind of tobacco (ex: http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/alpha-1-antitrypsin-deficie...). How is this any different from me walking onto a plane with a clump of asbestos fibers and waving it over your head on the plane?
[+] [-] bcx|12 years ago|reply
1) Quotes from CEO
2) Little anecdote from Chief Marketing Officer
3) Big vision "Vaping" becomes common place.
4) Key differentiators: "building e-cigarettes that look, feel and perform like the real thing" (this is sprinkled throughout)
5) Celebrity endorsement, Big names: Peter Thiel, Brunno Mars
The rest (post first page) is a nice over view of the e-cigarette industry, and some challenges facing NJOY. I wonder how long they were working on a NYT article, of if this was something pretty easy for them to get, given interest around e-cigarettes.
[+] [-] 300bps|12 years ago|reply
Most public health officials seem to agree that the levels of toxins in e-cigarettes are far lower than those in traditional cigarettes. But they also say that far too little is known, not just about potentially harmful aspects of particular brands of e-cigarettes, but also about whether there is harm from “secondhand vapor.” Dr. Glantz of U.C.S.F. says that in the absence of data, indoor smoking bans should also cover e-cigarettes.
The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty:
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/aboutfda/centersoffices/officeo...
I understand why my mother started smoking when she was 16 and then smoked a pack a day for the next 43 years until she died from cancer. Why in the world are people starting to smoke today with everything we know about it?
[+] [-] anextio|12 years ago|reply
Most reasonable people in the vaping community discourage that kind of behavior. At the end of the day, there will always be assholes.
> The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty
There are four ingredients in e-cigarette juice: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and flavoring.
Adverse effects generally come from an allergic reaction to PG, which is uncommon but well known. Those who are allergic are advised to use 100% VG mixtures.
Aside from that, PG is well known to be safe for human consumption as regulated by the FDA. It is an ingredient in inhalers for asthma and is used in smoke machines. It can cause a humidicant effect on the throat, which leaves it dry, but drinking liquids easily avoids this problem.
No one is arguing that e-cigarette companies should not be regulated to make sure that the juice they produce is of a high quality, but arguments to regulate them heavily (or like regular cigarettes) is based mostly on FUD.
> Why in the world are people starting to smoke today with everything we know about it?
Because humans aren't rational machines and there are many things that cause people to take up habits that aren't healthy. That's not something that's ever going to go away.
While long term data on e-cigarettes is not yet available, most experts agree that even in the worst-case scenario, they are nowhere near as bad for you as regular cigarettes. The FUD that exists in the debate can mostly be traced back to groups that have a temperance movement-esque attitude toward nicotine habits.
Nicotine is no more addictive or harmful to a person in a normal dose than caffeine, and its effects are similar also.
E-cigarettes are helping millions of people to get themselves off the dangers of regular cigarettes. That in itself is a public health miracle. The rates of cessation for cigarettes through traditional methods are frighteningly low, yet with the introduction of e-cigarettes, many people (including myself) will never touch a regular cigarette again after the first day.
I have a more advanced device than the ones you pick up at a gas station. It has variable wattage, variable voltage, an ohm-meter, a puff counter, and I can charge my iPhone from it via USB. As well as getting me off tobacco, it's also given me something else to geek out over, and I really enjoy it and the community around it.
Access to these devices must be made available widely and without encumbrance to as many people as possible. Regulations that come in should be about quality of product, not discouragement of purchase.
[+] [-] ahallock|12 years ago|reply
Ad hominem. Plus, just because something resembles smoking does not mean you should conflate the two, "poisoning the well."
> When you say something to them they invariably try to "educate" you on what an e-cigarette is and how it's different
Condescending and derisive.
> The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty
Finally we get to some actual evidence. I'll check it out, but from that intro you're probably seeking confirmation bias. Did you find any opposing data?
[+] [-] samatman|12 years ago|reply
For example, cannabis smoke. It has been shown to cause emphysema. Despite rather large and lengthy population studies, it has not been shown to cause lung cancer. That's despite both your instinct and my own that "of course any smoke causes cancer of the lungs". No, cannabis smoke has not been demonstrated to do that.
E-liquid is hugely variable in quality because there's no regulation. While I happen to think quality e-liquid will be safe for say 98% of the population to inhale, and the rest will be just as easily sent into shock by, say, perfume (this allergy is quite common), it is only detailed study which can actually answer this question.
[+] [-] nickdoesdesign|12 years ago|reply
We already see that your experience has shaped your worldview, but dont impose that on others.
[+] [-] throwaway0094|12 years ago|reply
> Why in the world are people starting to smoke today with everything we know about it?
We don't know anything about it [e-cigarrettes]. There is no literature that suggests that nicotine alone causes cancer, and no research at all on the safety of the devices themselves.
Should we do more research as they gain popular adoption? Definitely.
[+] [-] tluyben2|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anextio|12 years ago|reply
The first thing is that the level and effect of nicotine that is absorbed though vapor is a lot less than a regular cigarette. The reason for this is twofold: firstly, the lungs/mouth/throat seem to simply not pick up as much as in a cigarette, and secondly, cigarette smoke also contains MAOIs, which increase the sensitivity of the brain to nicotine's effects.
In addition, users can choose the level of nicotine that they use. Most e-cig users who are regular smokers tend to start at around 18mg/ml. When I first started, I was using this liquid in a 1.6ml tank. One tank worked out to about 1 pack of cigarettes worth of nicotine, and I got through about a tank a day: the same amount that I used to smoke in cigarettes, except spread out through a longer period of time.
Most vapers will puff way differently to cigarette users. We take one or two puffs at a time and then wait, while a cigarette user will smoke the whole thing quickly in one go.
Nicotine has been shown[1] to increase creativity in the brain, and I know from my own experience that I find it to be great while working. Most of my 'House' moments when tackling difficult coding problems have occurred on the curb with a cigarette in my mouth, and now I lean back at my desk and have a few puffs of fine-tasting menthol e-liquid.
[1] http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-08/uoc--bcw08150...
[+] [-] mistercow|12 years ago|reply
What I think is happening is this: With a classical cigarette, there's a clear beginning and end. With an e-cig there isn't. You're getting a dopamine reward every time you hit it, and there's no cue to stop. My recommendation to anyone starting on ecigs would therefore be to start with a very low nicotine concentration, and stay there.
If you want to avoid this effect, that is. If you don't care (and there doesn't appear to be a health reason to care), then I just wouldn't worry about it.
[+] [-] nilkn|12 years ago|reply
He eventually ditched it and went back to real cigarettes, though he smokes drastically fewer per day now than he used to. Unfortunately, though, I expect his habit to be back in full swing in the next few years.
[+] [-] hershel|12 years ago|reply
See "A fresh look at tobacco harm reduction: the case for the electronic cigarette" , reference 76.
[+] [-] gwern|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cliveowen|12 years ago|reply
I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face. I can't believe people don't get this.
[+] [-] anextio|12 years ago|reply
The millions of people who have quit tobacco because of them, for one example.
> I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face.
On behalf of the decent people in the vaping community, I'm sorry that you have to put up with people like that. There's a big movement in the community at the moment to severely discourage people from using them in inappropriate places like restaurants or around people who are disturbed by it.
However, I think that this problem can be solved by awareness raising alone. It's too risky for the sake of public health to ban them in certain places or outright.
If you come across someone doing this and you don't like it, tell them that propylene glycol vapor irritates you and ask them to avoid making clouds. Holding in the vapor for more than 5 seconds usually means that none at all will be expelled when they exhale. This is what I, and many others, do if we ever vape on public transport etc., which I try to avoid anyway.
[+] [-] techsupporter|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KC8ZKF|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thom|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Nursie|12 years ago|reply
THE HORROR!
[+] [-] argumentum|12 years ago|reply
It's exactly this kind of thinking that started and perpetuates the pernicious war on drugs. It's the root of the (proven false) "gateway drug" phenomenon.
The "thing" by the way is the fact that they don't do any harm. How absurd and ridiculous ..
[+] [-] ams6110|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qwerta|12 years ago|reply
I never smoked cigarette in my life, but I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee. It works, no hassle with tea or coffee preparation, also it is probably healthier. But being labeled as a smoker puts me off.
[+] [-] deskglass|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jtreminio|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Nursie|12 years ago|reply
Regulation doesn't have to mean restriction, as an ex-smoker that used e-cigs to quit, I think it's a great idea to get them regulated and legit.
[+] [-] danpalmer|12 years ago|reply
I'm not a smoker, but I can't see why e-cigarettes should be anything more than a way to help stop smoking.
[+] [-] tomjen3|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hackula1|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hershel|12 years ago|reply
How were the results for you ? And does anybody know about research or regulation of this types of ejuices ?
And since those same MAOI affecting compounds(probably beta carbolates) found in tobacco ,are found in brewed coffee, kinds of seasoning, grilled foods and other stuff, have anybody noticed a combination of vaping and some food more effective ?
[+] [-] praxeologist|12 years ago|reply
Beta-carboline MAOI's, like the minor alkaloids, do have a potentiating effect with nicotine and therefore increase satisfaction or the potential for addiction; however, these MAOI's are pyrosynthesized (created by burning) 20-40x. This means that these MAOI's are not a significant component of a WTA eliquid or non-burned tobacco like the snus many people turn to for the "something missing".
[+] [-] rogerthis|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stevewillows|12 years ago|reply
I had one of those smokes that looks like a cigarette, but it was garbage. The e-liquid with a KangerTech EVOD is the way to go.
Outside of the health benefits or whatever, the smell is one of the best reasons to switch. It's a good career move.
[+] [-] girvo|12 years ago|reply
What I find interesting though, is that while the spray does indeed get rid of the cravings, it (and the e-cigs I've used) is not the same "feeling" as smoking. This is possibly because of the lack of any MAOIs in the liquid itself.
How many of those using e-cigs here are ex-smokers? How many picked it up because it's a socially "acceptable" drug that you can now take without killing yourself slowly? I find it such a fascinating topic!
[+] [-] scotth|12 years ago|reply
I love the things. It's become a fun hobby for us. We swap flavours, buy hardware to show off, and talk about our experience whenever we're together. Way more fun than smoking ever was.
And, take this with a grain of salt (sample size of one), but I feel way better. No more coughing in the mornings, I take hills on my bike like a pro, and I'd swear I look healthier.
[+] [-] bobalob_wtf|12 years ago|reply
It's the closest thing to smoking without actually smoking and it's the only thing that's worked for me. I've tried cold turkey, patches and gum. None worked for more than a few weeks of constantly thinking about smoking.
It's so easy to switch from cigs to e-cigs too.
[+] [-] galuggus|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Nursie|12 years ago|reply
I puffed like mad for about three months, then noticed I'd just stopped by accident.
Highly recommended IMHO.
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] dageshi|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] balbaugh|12 years ago|reply
Imagine battery recycling stations at all the places that cell these e-cigs which contain batteries themselves.
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] SimpleXYZ|12 years ago|reply