I live in a small "flat" in India. Without A/C in the summer (only at night), our consumption is ~200 KWhr per month. With A/C only in one room for something like 4-5 hours per day, it shoots up to ~500 KWhr per month. Indians switching to A/C on a big scale will be a disaster for the world.
I believe that the answer lies in architecture, not in more energy-intensive devices which may or may not actually work (this one fools the body - that could be catastrophic, increasing chances for a heat stroke). India was always hot - but older buildings used to be built (1) with high ceilings (2) with cross-ventilation.
This contrasts with buildings in cold countries, where buildings are insulated against winter. In the name of "better" buildings, Indians are switching to sealed buildings working with Central A/C. Blind imitation.
On the other hand, there were builders committed to "environment-friendly", low cost buildings (not the modern scam of "green buildings", which are actually more expensive.) Laurie Baker in South India was one - a real unsung, and now forgotten hero:
What's particularly sad is how the vernacular architectural features, which have evolved over thousands of years to deal with these issues, have been largely abandoned over the 20th century. Only to be replaced by ugly concrete buildings and AC units. These include the Malqafs[1] (windcatchers) once found all over Arabia, Egypt, and Nubia. Also the use of underground streams[2] to cool buildings. And generally not building huge south-facing glass windows when you live in a place that reaches 45°C in the summer...
Also, a personal architect-hero of mine is Hassan Fathy[3]. This man inspired generations of environment-friendly architects.
Old homes (pre World War II) built in the southern United States all are centered around high ceilings, cross-ventilation. The home I grew up in wasn't air conditioned, and the summers, while nowhere near India's level, are extremely humid (90% plus most days) and are routinely above 90 degrees F.
The drawback in this is the cultural need for privacy that seems to have developed in many modern countries. People want to be able to shut their door, and this interferes with the cross ventilation. The whole "separate rooms on separate floors" also drastically hurts this concept. My house was reasonable, but my bedroom was tucked into the roofline on the top floor. It was unbearably hot, so my brother, father, and I would sleep on cots on a screened in porch.
Anecdotal observation: I just checked my monthly consumption since the beginning of this year and it averaged to 154kWh per month. I'm in Finland, I live in a flat and we have an electrically heated sauna that we use on a regular basis which isn't exactly very energy-efficient and, to think, we don't generally try to minimize the consumption of electricity at all, really.
Just wondering, what sort of consumption does that 200kWh include?
Very true. I visited New Delhi in December and noticed how heating/AC wasn't built in to the buildings yet it felt normal to just bundle up/unbundle up depending on the temperature. Getting rid of boilers and only boiling water when you need to is another approach that helps with energy cost - especially if they get smarter and can predict usage (on in the mornings, off when people are out of the home, etc).
I live in Las Vegas. Deaths occur in homes here every summer due to AC system failures (usually among the elderly and children that cannot easily leave and go to a cooler place). Many more do not die because they realize it is getting too hot and do whatever they have to do to get to a cooler place. A device like this that changes your perception of whether it is hot or cold would likely do more harm than good here and in other extreme climates. I can see huge product liability lawsuits in their future.
I don't mean any disrepect, but this comments seems a lot like the comments on the recent "Show HN: Dropbox" page from 2007, you are trying to think of a way this would fail, rather than potential uses.
Solving the issue of access to air conditioning or heating for the poor is a completely seperate issue than providing a solution to help lower our use of A/C or heating.
I could also see this being a liability. They will probably need to take steps to mitigate the issue by adding more technology to the wrist band that help monitor health in general (health relating to heat exhaustion). This will raise the price of the product, but possibly enable them to do something like send the user (or 911) alerts when your body temperature rises to dangerous levels.
This is an obstacle, and how they could go about it in a way that may add to the quality of life, or one where they assume no responsibility for your health if you use this in extreme climates.
Also, I'd be interested to see if by "tricking" the body the wearer sweats less and then wouldn't get dehydrated as fast, possibly extending and improving quality of life in extreme climates... I'm far from a doctor, but you are right it needs to be looked into and addressed.
Valid point. I'm not a doctor, but I'm guessing the immediate symptoms of hyperthermia - i.e. profuse sweating, blushing - could be masked by such a device when it is tricking your brain that the skin surface temperature is lower in relation to the the actual. Core and skin surface temperatures have intricate relationships in regards to heat dispersion through blood circulation.
I wonder how changing the perception actually impacts the body's thermostat. I would gladly sweat and let my body do its thing than have a heatstroke while being tricked into thinking that it is relatively cool outside.
I can't be for sure, but I bet it does not trick your body, just your mind. I can go out in the cold, ignore my mind telling me the discomfort of cold or warm, but I still will shiver or sweat appropriately. Still, I would likely only use something like this indoors.
I read the headline as "alternating current" also. Usually, engineers in the United States abbreviate "air conditioning" as "A/C," where the slash, used contrary to the usual usage of slashes, distinguishes one familiar abbreviation from another. I'm surprised the Wired editor didn't catch the ambiguity.
I like the idea of cooling people as opposed to whole buildings, but I don't like that this isn't actually decreasing your body's temperature, it just 'tricks' you into thinking it's colder/hotter outside. Perhaps it'll pave the way for clothes that can become cool or hot, depending on the temperature outside. I'd be very interested in those.
We're warm blooded. If you want to decrease your body's temperature, death is probably the way to go.
We don't feel warm because our core temperature is above 98.6, we feel warm SL that we are aware that we're having to work harder (typically through sweat) to stay at 98.6.
Likewise, it seems like you could make this safe if you could measure or estimate the user's core temperature. Should it deviate significantly from normal, shut the device off.
No it couldnt. Air Conditioning is not just about temperature but also humidity, which this doesn't address. I think room fans would still be necessary to keep the air moving as well. Plus, could tricking your body into thinking its cooler than it actually is be dangerous? Make sure people don't wear it while doing vigorous physical activity in the summer heat.
I believe the idea is not that it's a nervous system trick, but by heating or cooling a part of the body with high blood flow which occurs near the surface of the skin, you're actually going to impart a meaningful change on overall body temperature. Hospitals already do this for patients with hypo/hyperthermia. This could be monitored/regulated with a second band worn on the upper arm near the armpit which measures body temperature directly.
The question is more one of how much of an actual change can they impart (and under what circumstances?) given the size limitations of something like a wrist strap. My hunch is that this would need to be a fairly large system (including its power source) to have a meaningful impact outside of sedentary activity in an environment which is mildly under/over temperature. So good news for people who get chilly working long hours in their cold offices (which is a completely viable market), but not for runners looking to shed gear. Maybe there's something there for cyclists though, but only if they're willing to put up with a wheel generator.
Also, humidity impacts comfort largely because of its impact evaporation rates. Reducing body temperature reduces the rate of perspiration, in turn reducing the impact of humidity. You're right that it won't eliminate the effects of very high humidity, but it would reduce them.
From my very limited experience SF is not that humid, yet has a lot of AC.
Things like painting roofs silver or insulating buildings are great starts to reducing AC use. (Dark roofs can reach 66C to 88C in hot weather, better roofing helps a lot. (http://www.epa.gov/greenhomes/ReduceEnergy.htm#advhome))
But this? I'd freakin' love to try something like this. I'm almost always too hot, even in England.
My body naturally gets very warm, very quickly, with very little exercise. If they can make this work, I might actually be able to wear a suit all day! Luckily I don't need to but that's beside the point.
Assuming they can get the size and look sorted so the average consumer doesn't become a social pariah by wearing one (calculator watches come to mind), I wonder how this is powered? And more importantly, would it last for 8-12 hours on a charge?
If they're using Peltier devices it's probably going to require a largeish power supply, and some kind of heat dissipating/gathering device. One possible way to get around this for something like a suit jacket might be to move it from the wrist to the upper back, and to sew thin copper wires into the jacket. Also you could probably get away with having a few thin LiPoly cells placed in pockets around the jacket. Couple it all with an inductive charging coat hanger, and you've got a product worthy of SkyMall!
The device can make you feel a bit better but it can NOT replace an AC.
It was never designed to replace an AC.
If this was up for purchase i would get one especialy because it is portable and maybe it can be coupled with additional technology (measure blood preasure , acceleration, rfid access tags,...). People have been wearing wrist bands for ages (and even used them as currency) so it seems a good position for a gadget.
Unfortunately it's the modern media's job to give things catchy titles so they do well on the social media rounds. A lot of excellent stuff fails to do well on HN because it hasn't got the right title (I'm an HN firehose dweller so I get to enjoy a lot of the hidden gems :-)).
Indeed, I'm pretty sure there's room for an "off HN" type site that solely focuses on the best HN submissions that didn't make it for whatever reason.
Peltier heat pumps are inefficient; typically wanting a whole bunch of watts for achieving a small temperature gradient. So I'm wondering about the practicalities of powering this thing such that it could be worn as a personal item.
That doesn't seem to be much of a problem as the point is not to actually cool you, but to apply a temperature change of a fraction of a degree to a tiny part of skin to trick you into feeling colder.
When I stick a AA battery on a Peltier, to work out which side is which on unmarked unit, it actually does "feel" very cold really quickly. Hot side is obviously also very hot, very quickly.
I'd think it's more likely that the hot side is going to be the problem. Dissipating that heat without something like liquid cooling and active fans.
This is interesting, and in my opinion definitely deserving of the prize they got for it.
But I think it's real value (in contrast to "replacing A/C") is in developing markets, where a little wristband could really improve quality of life (in the sense that one isn't sweating to death in their shanty-town hut). Not only could it improve QoL, but it would also be much cheaper to install than a central air unit, and also much more feasible: everyone has a wrist, not everyone has an insulated home with consistent electrical service that could provide the power for a central air unit. Cool stuff!
Having your body think that it is comfortable, especially when the environment is hazardous, would be a lose. Like filtering out the sound of smoke detectors so you can sleep easier.
That said, this would be quite useful in office situations like ours where some people whine that 75 is too hot and other complain that at 70 they need mukluks. In that situation where the office is actually at a livable temperature, if we could adjust individual perceptions to be comfortable then it would be quite useful.
On a tech front, it's an interesting use of a peltier junction device. They are horribly inefficient yet really interesting. It is, effectively, a heat pump. It will make one side colder than the other. And that part is key. You must take away energy on the hot side or the entire thing will get hotter and hotter. Without heat removal on the hot side it would get hot enough to burn you very quickly. The article says they are using pulsed heat which might presumably deal with this issue.
As others mentioned already, tricking the body like this could have negative consequences. I wonder if any studies exist on this (ice bags on the wrists or some such thing).
It brought back memories of going sculling at the peak of winter. Due to the danger of falling into extremely cold water [0] I experimented with wearing a kayaker's dry suit. It worked reasonably well. A surprising find was that wearing a wool head-cap made me overheat. It was really amazing how quickly this would happen too.
I can see this MIT gizmo having some effect because our skin is sensitive to heat flow, not absolute temperature. Not sure I'd like to trick my body that way though. What are the consequences of messing with the mechanism that maintains proper thermal balance?
[0] There have been many incidents of rowers drowning in cold water within swimming distance of the shore. Swimming in cold water while wearing thin clothes and your heart pumping hard due to the physical exertion of rowing is extremely dangerous because hypothermic effects can be greatly accelerated. Even accomplished swimmers can drown fifty feet from shore.
Hopelessly naive. An air conditioning system is used to cool spaces yes. But where I live, it is just as important to lower the humidity. This device will not help with that.
This is like a placebo, intended to trick you into perceiving cold or less-cold when it isn't there. But when there's a real matter at hand placebos only work very temporarily – then eventually reality catches up to you. So if it's actually hot, and my body needs to react to that to regulate my temperature, this doesn't change that. But I suppose it would let you turn the temperature up a couple degrees.
Am I the only person who is skeptical about this? I don't see any published research. It sounds like their device just temporarily distracts you from noticing the heat or cold, in the same way that poking needles into random parts of your body distracts you from pain (aka acupuncture). I would like to see a placebo-controlled study where they having people sitting in a 35C room all day.
Interesting idea. I though it was going to be more like the 'cooling glove' [1] which actually cools you down, rather than just making you think you're cooler. Hairless skin on the hands and face has blood vessels close to the surface, and cooling those parts is proposed to quickly cool your blood and core temperature.
It looks like the energy and space requirements for such cooling glove are too large to make it portable, however, and it also doesn't work much better than simply holding an ice pack! So, for portable devices, it seems like at most we can only trick ourselves into thinking we're cool.
[+] [-] sn41|12 years ago|reply
I believe that the answer lies in architecture, not in more energy-intensive devices which may or may not actually work (this one fools the body - that could be catastrophic, increasing chances for a heat stroke). India was always hot - but older buildings used to be built (1) with high ceilings (2) with cross-ventilation.
http://www.architecture.com/SustainabilityHub/Designstrategi...
This contrasts with buildings in cold countries, where buildings are insulated against winter. In the name of "better" buildings, Indians are switching to sealed buildings working with Central A/C. Blind imitation.
On the other hand, there were builders committed to "environment-friendly", low cost buildings (not the modern scam of "green buildings", which are actually more expensive.) Laurie Baker in South India was one - a real unsung, and now forgotten hero:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Baker
http://www.hindu.com/folio/fo9908/99080300.htm
[+] [-] saljam|12 years ago|reply
Also, a personal architect-hero of mine is Hassan Fathy[3]. This man inspired generations of environment-friendly architects.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_tower [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat#Cooling [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Fathy
[+] [-] JPKab|12 years ago|reply
The drawback in this is the cultural need for privacy that seems to have developed in many modern countries. People want to be able to shut their door, and this interferes with the cross ventilation. The whole "separate rooms on separate floors" also drastically hurts this concept. My house was reasonable, but my bedroom was tucked into the roofline on the top floor. It was unbearably hot, so my brother, father, and I would sleep on cots on a screened in porch.
[+] [-] yason|12 years ago|reply
Just wondering, what sort of consumption does that 200kWh include?
[+] [-] dangoldin|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ck2|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] downandout|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrisgd|12 years ago|reply
Solving the issue of access to air conditioning or heating for the poor is a completely seperate issue than providing a solution to help lower our use of A/C or heating.
[+] [-] bargl|12 years ago|reply
In addition to that if they put a disclaimer on the box they can get away with a lot more. Something similar to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_packaging_warning_messa....
This is an obstacle, and how they could go about it in a way that may add to the quality of life, or one where they assume no responsibility for your health if you use this in extreme climates.
Also, I'd be interested to see if by "tricking" the body the wearer sweats less and then wouldn't get dehydrated as fast, possibly extending and improving quality of life in extreme climates... I'm far from a doctor, but you are right it needs to be looked into and addressed.
[+] [-] millstone|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] easy_rider|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davyjones|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kohanz|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flipside|12 years ago|reply
With cheap sensors, the room temperature, body temperature, humidity and perspiration can be measured.
Run some analysis and warning the wearer about heat stroke suddenly becomes possible!
[+] [-] Lost_BiomedE|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] officemonkey|12 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents
[+] [-] tokenadult|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Spoygg|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] miketyhs|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nkcmr|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] randomdata|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zhemao|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Raphael|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Vanayad|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] optymizer|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dannypgh|12 years ago|reply
We don't feel warm because our core temperature is above 98.6, we feel warm SL that we are aware that we're having to work harder (typically through sweat) to stay at 98.6.
Likewise, it seems like you could make this safe if you could measure or estimate the user's core temperature. Should it deviate significantly from normal, shut the device off.
[+] [-] georgemcfly|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] benjamincburns|12 years ago|reply
The question is more one of how much of an actual change can they impart (and under what circumstances?) given the size limitations of something like a wrist strap. My hunch is that this would need to be a fairly large system (including its power source) to have a meaningful impact outside of sedentary activity in an environment which is mildly under/over temperature. So good news for people who get chilly working long hours in their cold offices (which is a completely viable market), but not for runners looking to shed gear. Maybe there's something there for cyclists though, but only if they're willing to put up with a wheel generator.
Also, humidity impacts comfort largely because of its impact evaporation rates. Reducing body temperature reduces the rate of perspiration, in turn reducing the impact of humidity. You're right that it won't eliminate the effects of very high humidity, but it would reduce them.
[+] [-] DanBC|12 years ago|reply
Things like painting roofs silver or insulating buildings are great starts to reducing AC use. (Dark roofs can reach 66C to 88C in hot weather, better roofing helps a lot. (http://www.epa.gov/greenhomes/ReduceEnergy.htm#advhome))
But this? I'd freakin' love to try something like this. I'm almost always too hot, even in England.
[+] [-] ajtaylor|12 years ago|reply
Assuming they can get the size and look sorted so the average consumer doesn't become a social pariah by wearing one (calculator watches come to mind), I wonder how this is powered? And more importantly, would it last for 8-12 hours on a charge?
[+] [-] benjamincburns|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nodata|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noptic|12 years ago|reply
The device can make you feel a bit better but it can NOT replace an AC.
It was never designed to replace an AC.
If this was up for purchase i would get one especialy because it is portable and maybe it can be coupled with additional technology (measure blood preasure , acceleration, rfid access tags,...). People have been wearing wrist bands for ages (and even used them as currency) so it seems a good position for a gadget.
[+] [-] petercooper|12 years ago|reply
Unfortunately it's the modern media's job to give things catchy titles so they do well on the social media rounds. A lot of excellent stuff fails to do well on HN because it hasn't got the right title (I'm an HN firehose dweller so I get to enjoy a lot of the hidden gems :-)).
Indeed, I'm pretty sure there's room for an "off HN" type site that solely focuses on the best HN submissions that didn't make it for whatever reason.
[+] [-] bagosm|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nathas|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ctz|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vidarh|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexwright|12 years ago|reply
I'd think it's more likely that the hot side is going to be the problem. Dissipating that heat without something like liquid cooling and active fans.
[+] [-] EEGuy|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] randywaterhouse|12 years ago|reply
But I think it's real value (in contrast to "replacing A/C") is in developing markets, where a little wristband could really improve quality of life (in the sense that one isn't sweating to death in their shanty-town hut). Not only could it improve QoL, but it would also be much cheaper to install than a central air unit, and also much more feasible: everyone has a wrist, not everyone has an insulated home with consistent electrical service that could provide the power for a central air unit. Cool stuff!
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|12 years ago|reply
Having your body think that it is comfortable, especially when the environment is hazardous, would be a lose. Like filtering out the sound of smoke detectors so you can sleep easier.
That said, this would be quite useful in office situations like ours where some people whine that 75 is too hot and other complain that at 70 they need mukluks. In that situation where the office is actually at a livable temperature, if we could adjust individual perceptions to be comfortable then it would be quite useful.
[+] [-] robomartin|12 years ago|reply
As others mentioned already, tricking the body like this could have negative consequences. I wonder if any studies exist on this (ice bags on the wrists or some such thing).
It brought back memories of going sculling at the peak of winter. Due to the danger of falling into extremely cold water [0] I experimented with wearing a kayaker's dry suit. It worked reasonably well. A surprising find was that wearing a wool head-cap made me overheat. It was really amazing how quickly this would happen too.
I can see this MIT gizmo having some effect because our skin is sensitive to heat flow, not absolute temperature. Not sure I'd like to trick my body that way though. What are the consequences of messing with the mechanism that maintains proper thermal balance?
[0] There have been many incidents of rowers drowning in cold water within swimming distance of the shore. Swimming in cold water while wearing thin clothes and your heart pumping hard due to the physical exertion of rowing is extremely dangerous because hypothermic effects can be greatly accelerated. Even accomplished swimmers can drown fifty feet from shore.
[+] [-] paul_f|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ianbicking|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cpncrunch|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] ealloc|12 years ago|reply
It looks like the energy and space requirements for such cooling glove are too large to make it portable, however, and it also doesn't work much better than simply holding an ice pack! So, for portable devices, it seems like at most we can only trick ourselves into thinking we're cool.
[1]http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2012/0...