This article is both accurate and highly misleading. The author is correct that there is very little reliable evidence that links glutamic acid and/or glutamate to health problems. The backlash against MSG as a result of the "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" craze, was not rooted in scientific inquiry.
However, MSG is not just a source for glutamate like seaweed and tomatoes are. MSG is the sodium salt of glutamic acid and contains not just glutamate but also sodium ions. Having 2000mg of natural glutamate should be harmless. Having enough MSG to give you 2000mg of glutamate means you're getting a shit ton of sodium. That's not good for you, especially if you're one of the many people for whom excess sodium intake adversely affects your blood pressure. So while MSG is presumably no worse than NaCl (and is perhaps better in that the umami flavor means you don't have to use as much sodium to get an equally rich taste), to say that MSG is totally harmless without even mentioning sodium and hypertension is ridiculous. Even in terms of short term effects, I've had plenty of MSG-free hot and sour soups that made my head itch. Not from MSG but from thousands of mg of sodium found in their gratuitously added soy sauce and table salt.
"Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" is real though. Or rather I personally can't eat most things at chinese restaurants and this article was the first time I heard that this is actually a named thing, i.e. this is the first time I hear of CRS. Though I think it's more to do with the fat they use to fry rice in -- there is one place around here which serves chinese-style stir-fried noodles, but eating there reliably does not trigger any symptoms. They are also the priciest noodles around. Maybe CRS should just be named "bad cheap fried food syndrome". It's not a TLA, but you can just smush all the words together and call it bacheff syndrome.
So here's the thing that happens to me... When I eat certain foods, I tend to wake up in the middle of the night feeling hot, and it feels like I've got elevated blood pressure and my mind is racing a bit and it keeps me up at night. This is a very particular effect and it seems to be food linked. I get it after eating Chinese food, I get it after eating Pizza, I get it after eating a pile of spaghetti with red sauce. I used to gorge on Triscuits and Cheese and I'd get the same effects. I thought it was the carbs at first since those seem to be bad for me with weight gain and thought it was all related. But, there's another link there which is that all of that has MSG or glutamate in it (and also lots of sodium of course). So if i stay away from those foods I don't get the horrible sweaty middle insomnia symptoms.
I can eat carbs if I stay away from glutamate/sodium, so my first guess that it was the white rice, pizza crust and spaghetti noodles was incorrect. But the MSG is always correlated with the symptoms. Is it the MSG or is it that the MSG comes with the salt? I dunno. I'm not really certain that it matters either.
(I've also had my BP taken by a cardiologist the day after eating Chinese food and it spiked enough to cross the line between normal and high blood pressure the next morning after the meal...)
Another point worth considering is the chirality of the molecule. There is a strong bias in biological systems in favour of l-oriented amino acids; a bias often unreflected or different in synthesised chemicals.
Biological systems often react differently to the different enantiomers of a chemical, sometimes being unresponsive to the enantiomer of a biologically active molecule, sometimes responding in a different but useful manner, and sometimes reacting adversely.
Excitotoxicity is the "pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged and killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate and similar substances" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity).
As the article says, when glutamate is consumed naturally, it is intertwined with fiber and other chemicals that regulate its uptake; however, glutamate additives are not and thus flood your body with glutamate, which can overload your blood-brain barrier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood%E2%80%93brain_barrier) and disrupt the delicate balance.
You hit the nail on the head. For most of us, it's not the MSG that causes the problem. It's what comes with it. For starters it's the sodium. For me it's the 1000 calories in a monster Doritos bag, or the 3000 calories when I eat three times what I should at a Chinese takeout.
I went to this sketchy restaurant in Spain once, and started having pins and needles all around my skull. Reading what you just write, that might have been because of too much MSG. Pretty scary at that time.
The MSG allergy is a myth, plain and simple. There have been plenty of scientific research studies done on the substance, and they found absolutely nothing. I don't know why this myth has persisted so long in popular culture. I compare it to people who rave about homeopathy. Any (perceived) effect is either anecdotal or placebo in nature.
What most people don't know, is that MSG occurs naturally in many foods. Beef, Chicken, Spinach, Tomatoes, etc... If you don't get an MSG allergy when you eat those foods, you don't have an MSG allergy. Source: http://zidbits.com/2010/12/is-the-msg-allergy-a-myth/
Uh. I actually have an MSG sensitivity which took me forever to figure out what it was. For decades I'd occasionally be eating in a restaurant and my lips, tongue and/or back of my throat would go numb. It wasn't until I bought MSG and started putting it on pretty much everything in larger doses that I realized it was the culprit.
I can reproduce it pretty easily by simply putting nothing but MSG on my tongue. It takes a good bit to do it however and seems to cause me no other problems so I tend not to worry about it, but it is clearly some kind of sensitivity or allergy which is easily reproducible and not the slightest bit vague (lips going numb is a pretty easily identifiable sensation). Claiming it is all completely made up seems a bit premature.
1. I occasionally get symptoms often associated with MSG. Terrible headache, confusion, nasal drip, nausea, and so on. It can put me out of action for about 12 hours.
2. I invariably get these symptoms about 24 hours after I've eaten processed foods with an unusually rich flavour and which have, somewhere in their ingredients, either MSG or something that might conceal MSG (e.g. "flavourings").
I can't guarantee that it's MSG, because I'm too chicken to test it directly (that headache really sucks), but it certainly fits the profile.
Now some people point out, "It occurs naturally in all kinds of foods. The original MSG was derived from miso soup, which you eat every day."
And my answer is, "I don't know. Maybe it's a subtle variant of MSG that only occurs in the synthetic variety? Maybe the naturally occurring MSG is bound up with other things that render it safe for me to eat? But something's making me ill, and it's only in synthetic ingredients."
It's a lot like the stigma against aspartame. It found its way into popular culture and has become firmly entrenched despite all evidence from decades of intense scientific scrutiny to the contrary.
My gut feeling is that we're going to be in a similar place in 10-20 years with HFCS. The body of research there is still relatively young, however.
MSG is not in beef chicken spinach or tomatoes. There is a difference between the glutamic acid that is in these foods and the salt that is msg. Furthermore, MSG is manufactured using chemical processes which means that there are plenty of trace elements from the manufacturing processes in the end product. It is very much possible to be allergic to MSG.
Even the present article, despite being very much pro-MSG, allows that some people may be sensitive to it.
I think people are talking about sensitivity, are you saying that everybody should be able to ingest dishes made with MSG and not feel bad because of the MSG?
There was a long thread at metafilter about MSG fairly recently, and I found this comment from a biochemist to be a really good, straightforward primer on what exactly MSG is and how it is metabolized:
Sorry if I'm being insensitive, but how is Chinese Restaurant Syndrome "absurdly racist"? If people were having health problems as a consequence of eating corned beef, I would, as a Jew, have no problem with that condition being called "Jewish Deli Syndrome".
I think "absurdly" is a bit too strong, but the problem comes down to 4 things:
1. Only small percentage of people was afflicted with physical symptoms.
2. These symptoms were vague and so variable that they had to refer to as "syndrome", rather than "symptom".
3. Ultimately, MSG allergy proved to be largely false.
4. MSG is found everywhere.
"Jewish Deli Syndrome" could be considered racist depending on the surrounding circumstance.
However, if there is set of ingredients that are unique to Jewish deli meat scientifically proven to cause problems for non-trivial percentage of population, then I would agree with you that it wouldn't (and shouldn't) be racist to call "Jewsih Deli Syndrome".
I completely agree with the OP; there's no reason to suggest there is anything racist about the label Chinese Restaurant Syndrome. It appears a few people have been hyper-sensitized to a bad definition of racism.
It isn't the MSG that will kill you. MSG, sugar and salt are all naturally occurring in health food and the key is moderation and balance.
The problem is we have turned something which is harmless in moderation into a massive food business build on a model of addiction.
The thing that will make you unhealthy is highly processed food devoid of nutrition that is made entirely of starch, vegetable oil, sugar, salt and MSG that has replaced a healthy diet.
If you eat fresh fruit, vegetables and a moderate amount of meat, cooked healthfully and sprinkle a bit of seasoning on it for flavour you will likely be no worse off than consuming the healthy stuff without seasoning. Though if you use good ingredients you probably don't need the extra refined product. There are plenty of natural ingredients rich in glutamate.
This reminds me about people who are fanatical about avoiding nitrates in Bacon, not realizing that the "natural" celery salt added to Bacon means that actually the expensive bacon sold in Whole Foods actually has more nitrates than conventional bacon. It's just "natural" nitrate, so it must be ok.....
I use MSG in cooking and it's a great way to lower salt while dramatically increasing flavor. It doesn't make bad food magically good, but it makes good food great. Especially good in soups and stews. I bought a bulk container in the ethnic food aisle of a grocery and it has lasted a couple of years and is now just about gone. It's amazing how much a little pinch goes.
> I use MSG in cooking and it's a great way to lower salt
It might lower salt a bit, but it's hardly a great way, the S stands for sodium, which is exactly what you want to avoid. Perhaps the trade off is worth it if you can use less, but you need to calculate it carefully.
If you think MSG is fine, try eating a tablespoon of it with nothing else.
Then another time try eating a bunch of mushrooms or similar by themselves with a similar quantity.
Likely not the same feeling. Digestion and absorption of food changes with how you consume it. Eating a sweet potato or a bunch of sugar doesn't hit the bloodstream the same way.
In my teens and twenties I found I got migraine headaches after eating certain foods; with a little experimentation I found foods (all kinds, not just Chinese) containing added MSG gave me a headache within 2-4 hours. Eliminating those foods eliminated the headaches. Later in life I found I was less effected though with sufficient quantities I could still get one. It was pretty clear the only food that affected me this way had MSG in it. Most people seem not to be affected.
Personally I don't mind if people add it to foods as long as it's labeled honestly so I can choose to avoid it. No different than with peanut allergies or sodium content or trans-fats. Adding yeast extract or hydrolyzed vegetable protein (proteins broken down into amino salts including the glutamate) to foods to avoid mentioning you did it for the MSG is the only thing that bugs me. It's like saying a food is low-salt because you added Natural Ocean Water instead of salt.
Where are you eating that they put a tablespoon of MSG in something? Even Chinese restaurants I'm familiar with that use MSG only use (and only need) a very small amount.
Adequately controlling for experimental bias includes a double-blind placebo-controlled experimental design (DBPC) and the application in capsules because of the strong and unique after-taste of glutamates.[21] In a study performed by Tarasoff and Kelly (1993) 71 fasting participants were given 5 g of MSG and then administered a standard breakfast. There was only one reaction, and it was to the placebo in a self-identified MSG-sensitive individual.[18] In a different study done by Geha et al. (2000), they tested the reaction of 130 subjects who reported sensitivity to MSG. Multiple DBPC trials were performed and only subjects with at least two symptoms proceeded. Only two people out of the whole study responded in all four challenges. Because of this low prevalence, the researchers concluded that the response to MSG was not reproducible.
In New Zealand we were always taught that MSG was bad, until they did an actual study on it and decided that 0.01% of the population has an allergic reaction to MSG that causes Migraines, Vomiting, etc.
Ever since, no one in NZ gives a shit about MSG now. Seems Australia is still really anal about it.
"Australia and New Zealand[edit]
Food Standards Australia New Zealand[29] (FSANZ) cites "overwhelming evidence from a large number of scientific studies" to explicitly deny any link between MSG and "serious adverse reactions" or "long-lasting effects", declaring MSG "safe for the general population". It does, however, describe that in less than 1% of the population, sensitive individuals may experience "transient" side effects such as "headache, numbness/tingling, flushing, muscle tightness, and generalised weakness" to a large amount of MSG taken in a single meal. People who consider themselves sensitive to MSG are encouraged to confirm this through an appropriate clinical assessment.
Standard 1.2.4 of the Australia and New Zealand Food Standards Code requires the presence of MSG as a food additive to be labeled in packaged foods. The label must bear the food additive class name (e.g., flavour enhancer), followed by either the name of the food additive, MSG or its International Numbering System (INS) number, 621.[30]"
In NZ - no one cares
In Aus - everyones like "ZOMG MSG, BAD FOR YOU" and try to avoid it.
Food in NZ is way better than Australia. (Australians don't know how to cook steak)
> I've heard that the sickness associated with MSG is more likely due to ingesting old rice.
Yes, I remember there being a British, I think, study in 2011 or 2012 that bought samples of cooked rice from various oriental food sellers and found that some were contaminated (moist warm food left out for hours); the reasoning is that when people report sickness or allergy to the MSG that oriental food in the West is notoriously prepared with, they're actually having issues with the rice.
Also, your body is actually better at processing MSG than salt, so supplementing your food with MSG can allow you to get good flavor with a considerable salt reduction.
> Would you use these crystals in your kitchen if they were called “super delicious umami crystals?”
I use those crystals in my kitchen and they are labelled "monosodium glutamate" (Ajinomoto). A pound of that easily lasts me 2 years. You only need a dash here and there (and only if it isn't umami on its own).
I also eat/use Parmesan, Dashi, tomatoes, and so forth.
My qualm with MSG doesn't involve its health effects, but the fact that MSG makes telling the difference between good food and crap far more difficult.
If you'd like to see a demonstration of what I mean, boil a pound of dried beans, and add some MSG. I find you'll eat the otherwise unflavored, bland beans with the same mechanical compulsion as a bag of potato chips. In that way MSG spoils the sport of preparing delicious food.
That should also raise the issue of portion control and satiety in your mind. If you're reading this, I assume you're more concerned with maintaining a steady weight than tricking your body into desiring greater quantities of food. MSG'll thwart you there, and unfortunately it's usually used on foods that are already pure starch and fat rather than nutritious fare.
Different rates of uptake. That's the difference. That's why eating a box of cherry tomatoes and a bowl of ramen have drastically different effects on your sense of well-being.
At the very least, people should be made aware whether it's in certain foods. Then they can choose what's best for them.
Personally, MSG bedrocks me. I have to take a sick day off work in some cases after eating an MSG-laden meal. I've developed the skill to taste it now, after a brief tour through Asia. So I guess I can manage.
The surest bet is just to eat natural. What have humans been eating for the past 2,3, 10 million years? Please, give me a plentiful variation of all that.
But this practice of deeming artificial foods "safe" for consumption after a few year's testing reeks of greedy arrogance.
That notion has been studied and refuted. Give a mouse, or a person, a high oral dose of MSG, and their plasma levels of glutamate are not significantly changed.
I still think "umami" looks out of place next to the other basic taste words. All the others come in adjective/noun pairs: sweet/sweetness, salty/saltiness, etc. Where's the adjective for "umami"? "Umami" again? "Umami-tasting"? It doesn't work well (and importing the Japanese adjective "umai" would make things worse, not better).
Instead, I highly prefer the adjective sapid with its corresponding noun sapidity. Sweet, sour, salty, bitter, sapid. Sweetness, sourness, saltiness, bitterness, sapidity. Much better.
You know what? This generalization of what is good and bad for you - is just a generalization to find a common food product which is easily mass producible and consumable by the entire planetary populace. However, just as shirts are tailored, I believe we may be entering an age of tailored foods for 7 billion + individuals. MSG can depend on who you are, how old, what else do you eat, are you on a plane. We will get there. Quick! Somebody make an app and Hadoop it.
I really do not like these articles that say "science says not to worry, you must be a very stupid and uneducated person to be worried about this." Any honest scientist will tell you that science does not know exactly how the human body processes food and there is no model which will exactly predict the effects of the human body ingesting a certain food.
Saying that the experimental results are mixed does not make me feel better. Experimenting with humans is very difficult, and certain types of experiments are downright impossible. Thus, effects of foods that do are not immediate and drastic are very hard to determine in human experiments.
Think about a food that we now know is very dangerous: trans fats. Humans had been eating trans fats for about 80 years when they were definitely found to cause heart attacks. Only then there was enough data to make a definite connection. And while there were some scientific articles that suggested a connection in the 60's someone could always say "there is no definite proof." Many people died of heart attacks before the statistics became such that a connection was obvious.
Then there is the tendency of people to wrongly assume that compounds that are kind of similar will have the identical effect on the body. Thus, for a long time carbohydrates were all bunched together because they were very similar molecules. People would often say that carbohydrates cannot be bad for you because humans have been eating rice and wheat for centuries without negative effects. But it turned out that fructose is a little different than other carbohydrates and it can be bad for you.
And then there is the fact that the same thing can be benign or very dangerous depending on what form it is in. Thus, fructose is absolutely benign when eaten as part of a fruit or vegetable, but quite harmful when eaten in a refined sugar or high fructose corn syrup form.
So I am very very suspicious of any food additives. The only rational decision for a human being is to eat the type of foods humans have eaten for tens of thousands of years before and for which our bodies have evolved. Maybe MSG is benign. Or maybe it is actually bad for you. I would prefer not to become one of those statistics that allows scientists to prove many years from now that MSG is indeed bad for you.
MSG is especially worrying because there are some studies that show negative effects of MSG and the fact that other studies show no effects does not quite negate these. Furthermore, I myself feel negative effects when eating certain foods that I suspect of containing MSG.
[+] [-] dsrguru|12 years ago|reply
However, MSG is not just a source for glutamate like seaweed and tomatoes are. MSG is the sodium salt of glutamic acid and contains not just glutamate but also sodium ions. Having 2000mg of natural glutamate should be harmless. Having enough MSG to give you 2000mg of glutamate means you're getting a shit ton of sodium. That's not good for you, especially if you're one of the many people for whom excess sodium intake adversely affects your blood pressure. So while MSG is presumably no worse than NaCl (and is perhaps better in that the umami flavor means you don't have to use as much sodium to get an equally rich taste), to say that MSG is totally harmless without even mentioning sodium and hypertension is ridiculous. Even in terms of short term effects, I've had plenty of MSG-free hot and sour soups that made my head itch. Not from MSG but from thousands of mg of sodium found in their gratuitously added soy sauce and table salt.
[+] [-] ecopoesis|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] refurb|12 years ago|reply
In other words, the sodium intake from eating MSG is about 1/3 that of table salt on a per weight basis.
[+] [-] anonymous|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Figs|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lamontcg|12 years ago|reply
I can eat carbs if I stay away from glutamate/sodium, so my first guess that it was the white rice, pizza crust and spaghetti noodles was incorrect. But the MSG is always correlated with the symptoms. Is it the MSG or is it that the MSG comes with the salt? I dunno. I'm not really certain that it matters either.
(I've also had my BP taken by a cardiologist the day after eating Chinese food and it spiked enough to cross the line between normal and high blood pressure the next morning after the meal...)
[+] [-] akingoffools|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] espeed|12 years ago|reply
Glutamate is an excitotoxin, and it's an additive in almost all processed foods, in various forms with many different names (http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html).
Excitotoxicity is the "pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged and killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate and similar substances" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity).
As the article says, when glutamate is consumed naturally, it is intertwined with fiber and other chemicals that regulate its uptake; however, glutamate additives are not and thus flood your body with glutamate, which can overload your blood-brain barrier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood%E2%80%93brain_barrier) and disrupt the delicate balance.
This is akin to Dr. Lustig's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lustig) findings on sugar (fructose): Eating whole fruits is fine because you're consuming fiber with the fructose (nature provides the antidote), but fruit juice is all fructose and no fiber so your body is flooded with fructose, which is toxic (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.htm...).
[+] [-] ScotterC|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mathattack|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baby|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mahranch|12 years ago|reply
What most people don't know, is that MSG occurs naturally in many foods. Beef, Chicken, Spinach, Tomatoes, etc... If you don't get an MSG allergy when you eat those foods, you don't have an MSG allergy. Source: http://zidbits.com/2010/12/is-the-msg-allergy-a-myth/
[+] [-] Aloisius|12 years ago|reply
I can reproduce it pretty easily by simply putting nothing but MSG on my tongue. It takes a good bit to do it however and seems to cause me no other problems so I tend not to worry about it, but it is clearly some kind of sensitivity or allergy which is easily reproducible and not the slightest bit vague (lips going numb is a pretty easily identifiable sensation). Claiming it is all completely made up seems a bit premature.
[+] [-] Pitarou|12 years ago|reply
1. I occasionally get symptoms often associated with MSG. Terrible headache, confusion, nasal drip, nausea, and so on. It can put me out of action for about 12 hours.
2. I invariably get these symptoms about 24 hours after I've eaten processed foods with an unusually rich flavour and which have, somewhere in their ingredients, either MSG or something that might conceal MSG (e.g. "flavourings").
I can't guarantee that it's MSG, because I'm too chicken to test it directly (that headache really sucks), but it certainly fits the profile.
Now some people point out, "It occurs naturally in all kinds of foods. The original MSG was derived from miso soup, which you eat every day."
And my answer is, "I don't know. Maybe it's a subtle variant of MSG that only occurs in the synthetic variety? Maybe the naturally occurring MSG is bound up with other things that render it safe for me to eat? But something's making me ill, and it's only in synthetic ingredients."
[+] [-] commandar|12 years ago|reply
My gut feeling is that we're going to be in a similar place in 10-20 years with HFCS. The body of research there is still relatively young, however.
[+] [-] hristov|12 years ago|reply
Even the present article, despite being very much pro-MSG, allows that some people may be sensitive to it.
[+] [-] baby|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] devindotcom|12 years ago|reply
http://www.metafilter.com/131105/Dorito-Powder#5147903
[+] [-] bookface|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pcurve|12 years ago|reply
1. Only small percentage of people was afflicted with physical symptoms.
2. These symptoms were vague and so variable that they had to refer to as "syndrome", rather than "symptom".
3. Ultimately, MSG allergy proved to be largely false.
4. MSG is found everywhere.
"Jewish Deli Syndrome" could be considered racist depending on the surrounding circumstance.
However, if there is set of ingredients that are unique to Jewish deli meat scientifically proven to cause problems for non-trivial percentage of population, then I would agree with you that it wouldn't (and shouldn't) be racist to call "Jewsih Deli Syndrome".
[+] [-] sjwright|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michh|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shirro|12 years ago|reply
The problem is we have turned something which is harmless in moderation into a massive food business build on a model of addiction.
The thing that will make you unhealthy is highly processed food devoid of nutrition that is made entirely of starch, vegetable oil, sugar, salt and MSG that has replaced a healthy diet.
If you eat fresh fruit, vegetables and a moderate amount of meat, cooked healthfully and sprinkle a bit of seasoning on it for flavour you will likely be no worse off than consuming the healthy stuff without seasoning. Though if you use good ingredients you probably don't need the extra refined product. There are plenty of natural ingredients rich in glutamate.
[+] [-] tytso|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonknee|12 years ago|reply
Amazon has a 1LB bag available for $6.50 and is Prime eligible: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001OCP02Q/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...
[+] [-] ars|12 years ago|reply
It might lower salt a bit, but it's hardly a great way, the S stands for sodium, which is exactly what you want to avoid. Perhaps the trade off is worth it if you can use less, but you need to calculate it carefully.
[+] [-] ginko|12 years ago|reply
Yeast extract contains MSG, but it also leaves an unpleasant aftertaste in the mouth for hours.
[+] [-] coldcode|12 years ago|reply
Then another time try eating a bunch of mushrooms or similar by themselves with a similar quantity.
Likely not the same feeling. Digestion and absorption of food changes with how you consume it. Eating a sweet potato or a bunch of sugar doesn't hit the bloodstream the same way.
In my teens and twenties I found I got migraine headaches after eating certain foods; with a little experimentation I found foods (all kinds, not just Chinese) containing added MSG gave me a headache within 2-4 hours. Eliminating those foods eliminated the headaches. Later in life I found I was less effected though with sufficient quantities I could still get one. It was pretty clear the only food that affected me this way had MSG in it. Most people seem not to be affected.
Personally I don't mind if people add it to foods as long as it's labeled honestly so I can choose to avoid it. No different than with peanut allergies or sodium content or trans-fats. Adding yeast extract or hydrolyzed vegetable protein (proteins broken down into amino salts including the glutamate) to foods to avoid mentioning you did it for the MSG is the only thing that bugs me. It's like saying a food is low-salt because you added Natural Ocean Water instead of salt.
[+] [-] ahoge|12 years ago|reply
If you think salt is fine, try eating 10 tablespoons of it with nothing else.
[+] [-] sk5t|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eropple|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TruthElixirX|12 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate#Safety
[+] [-] philliphaydon|12 years ago|reply
Ever since, no one in NZ gives a shit about MSG now. Seems Australia is still really anal about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate
"Australia and New Zealand[edit] Food Standards Australia New Zealand[29] (FSANZ) cites "overwhelming evidence from a large number of scientific studies" to explicitly deny any link between MSG and "serious adverse reactions" or "long-lasting effects", declaring MSG "safe for the general population". It does, however, describe that in less than 1% of the population, sensitive individuals may experience "transient" side effects such as "headache, numbness/tingling, flushing, muscle tightness, and generalised weakness" to a large amount of MSG taken in a single meal. People who consider themselves sensitive to MSG are encouraged to confirm this through an appropriate clinical assessment. Standard 1.2.4 of the Australia and New Zealand Food Standards Code requires the presence of MSG as a food additive to be labeled in packaged foods. The label must bear the food additive class name (e.g., flavour enhancer), followed by either the name of the food additive, MSG or its International Numbering System (INS) number, 621.[30]"
In NZ - no one cares
In Aus - everyones like "ZOMG MSG, BAD FOR YOU" and try to avoid it.
Food in NZ is way better than Australia. (Australians don't know how to cook steak)
[+] [-] binarymax|12 years ago|reply
If you want to get glutamates in your food, when cooking with meat proteins, add mushrooms, seaweed, or even a single prawn or anchovy.
[+] [-] gwern|12 years ago|reply
Yes, I remember there being a British, I think, study in 2011 or 2012 that bought samples of cooked rice from various oriental food sellers and found that some were contaminated (moist warm food left out for hours); the reasoning is that when people report sickness or allergy to the MSG that oriental food in the West is notoriously prepared with, they're actually having issues with the rice.
[+] [-] etler|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] r0h1n|12 years ago|reply
A citation or source would be much appreciated.
[+] [-] unknown|12 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ahoge|12 years ago|reply
I use those crystals in my kitchen and they are labelled "monosodium glutamate" (Ajinomoto). A pound of that easily lasts me 2 years. You only need a dash here and there (and only if it isn't umami on its own).
I also eat/use Parmesan, Dashi, tomatoes, and so forth.
[+] [-] droopyEyelids|12 years ago|reply
If you'd like to see a demonstration of what I mean, boil a pound of dried beans, and add some MSG. I find you'll eat the otherwise unflavored, bland beans with the same mechanical compulsion as a bag of potato chips. In that way MSG spoils the sport of preparing delicious food.
That should also raise the issue of portion control and satiety in your mind. If you're reading this, I assume you're more concerned with maintaining a steady weight than tricking your body into desiring greater quantities of food. MSG'll thwart you there, and unfortunately it's usually used on foods that are already pure starch and fat rather than nutritious fare.
[+] [-] vertis|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elbii|12 years ago|reply
At the very least, people should be made aware whether it's in certain foods. Then they can choose what's best for them.
Personally, MSG bedrocks me. I have to take a sick day off work in some cases after eating an MSG-laden meal. I've developed the skill to taste it now, after a brief tour through Asia. So I guess I can manage.
The surest bet is just to eat natural. What have humans been eating for the past 2,3, 10 million years? Please, give me a plentiful variation of all that.
But this practice of deeming artificial foods "safe" for consumption after a few year's testing reeks of greedy arrogance.
[+] [-] tptacek|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Camillo|12 years ago|reply
Instead, I highly prefer the adjective sapid with its corresponding noun sapidity. Sweet, sour, salty, bitter, sapid. Sweetness, sourness, saltiness, bitterness, sapidity. Much better.
[+] [-] Peeda|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 21echoes|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coopaq|12 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hristov|12 years ago|reply
Saying that the experimental results are mixed does not make me feel better. Experimenting with humans is very difficult, and certain types of experiments are downright impossible. Thus, effects of foods that do are not immediate and drastic are very hard to determine in human experiments.
Think about a food that we now know is very dangerous: trans fats. Humans had been eating trans fats for about 80 years when they were definitely found to cause heart attacks. Only then there was enough data to make a definite connection. And while there were some scientific articles that suggested a connection in the 60's someone could always say "there is no definite proof." Many people died of heart attacks before the statistics became such that a connection was obvious.
Then there is the tendency of people to wrongly assume that compounds that are kind of similar will have the identical effect on the body. Thus, for a long time carbohydrates were all bunched together because they were very similar molecules. People would often say that carbohydrates cannot be bad for you because humans have been eating rice and wheat for centuries without negative effects. But it turned out that fructose is a little different than other carbohydrates and it can be bad for you.
And then there is the fact that the same thing can be benign or very dangerous depending on what form it is in. Thus, fructose is absolutely benign when eaten as part of a fruit or vegetable, but quite harmful when eaten in a refined sugar or high fructose corn syrup form.
So I am very very suspicious of any food additives. The only rational decision for a human being is to eat the type of foods humans have eaten for tens of thousands of years before and for which our bodies have evolved. Maybe MSG is benign. Or maybe it is actually bad for you. I would prefer not to become one of those statistics that allows scientists to prove many years from now that MSG is indeed bad for you.
MSG is especially worrying because there are some studies that show negative effects of MSG and the fact that other studies show no effects does not quite negate these. Furthermore, I myself feel negative effects when eating certain foods that I suspect of containing MSG.
[+] [-] phormula|12 years ago|reply